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Made in pl
Raging Ravener





Poland

I know a little about the rules of Warmahordes, and I know the Wh40k rules pretty well. I also know about the reputation of the two games: 40k is a beer & pretzel game, with spam lists from the Net winning the day. The battles are about simple battle plans with limited tactical decisions (I know that from my observations of kill team games, though, so it's not really representative). Then, Warmachine seems to be about countless tactical choices, and when I scour the Web for winning lists, there are hardly any; on the contrary, most beginners are advised to get some models, start playing and develop their own strategy and skill.

Both games have pretty similar combat rules. Main differences seem to be the attacks of 'Jacks, Focus point allocation and shorter ranges of missile weapons, but they all sound like not a very big deal. Is this reputation true to life? If so, what makes Warmahordes so special?

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Regular Dakkanaut




There are DEFINITELY net lists in warmachine. And the power difference between the top tier lists and the bottom is just as big as 40k. Balance is pretty tenuous and tends to be similar towards the style of "everyone is broken in their own way."

WM is more like MTG, a lot of it is deck building and slapping synergies on top of each other. It is less beer and pretzels because the rules are very precise and designed to allow ridiculous things to happen, and you have to know all of them for every army and how they work together if you are going to play competitively (especially in the harshly timed tournament setting). You have to know a LOT about all the armies because you have to counter their strategy or you'll just die immediately against a lot of armies.

The model counts tend to be smaller, and it is centered around the war-noun who controls your beasts or 'jacks. The warnouns themselves add a lot of the variability, as changing who is leading an army changes how it plays entirely.

The tournament scene is a lil different too because you are allowed to have 2 armies or a side table, thus you encounter far fewer "rock to my paper" situations, if planned properly.

40k has a loose rule set, large model volume, and less obvious/powerful synergies, lending itself to a more stylistic, "for fun" approach. Since 5th ed a lot of the best lists have just been spamming the most cost efficient units possible, but honestly with 7th ed and unbound and apocalypse who can tell what is actually most cost efficient/competitive these days.

For 40k tournaments it is mostly luck of the draw in who you play and finger crossing for TO rule decisions. FAQs are better than they used to be though. I'd love to see a double list system, ironically I bet it would make people a take more balanced lists because they'd have greater chances of running into their anti-list in that situation.
   
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The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

Warmachine is special because the most important part is player skill, not the list choice. Thats why there really isn't such a thing as a Net List, more like Net-combos.

And the biggest skill is judging distances. The only pre-measurement allowed is your casters control area, so you never know for sure what a distance is until you commit to an action. Games are often decided by mm of distance.

Thats why beginners are just told vaguely what to get for their faction so they don't get duds. Its so they just play games and build up skill. After that, we can discuss better list choices.

You can't just plop down a list which won a big tournament and expect to win only knowing the basic mechanics of the game. You need to know the synergies which exist within the list, how your units compliment each other, and how to position your units on the battlefield.


And no, Warmachine combat is totally different from 40k. Its 2D6 instead of D6 based. Stats are not on a scale of 1-10, but rather are a value which could theoretically be any whole number.

Damage also is tracked differently. While in 40k, damage is a simple Y/N. Warmachine is a quantitative system. If I exceed a guys armor by 4 points, he will take 4 points of damage. In 40k I do one point of damage weather I succeed by 1 or by 10.

The value needed to hit is also different. in 40k its only based on the skill of the attacker. In Warmachine its based on the skill of the attacker vs the skill of the defender.

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Cosmic Joe





Warmachine is more tactical for a few reasons, one of them being movement and placement. Someone said earlier, the shorter ranges and higher damage output makes what unit goes where far more important. Also, units have more versitility than 40k so you can do different things with them, not to mention what casters and support you have with them will change the way the unit plays.



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The Conquerer






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I wouldn't say units are more versatile. Units usually only have a couple things they can do.

Shooting units are almost always bad in melee. Most melee units have no ranged weapons at all. Some models don't even have any weapons period. Heck, one Warcaster literally has no way of directly damaging another mode. No melee or ranged weapon, and no spells which do damage.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

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Longtime Dakkanaut





 skybax wrote:

Both games have pretty similar combat rules. Main differences seem to be the attacks of 'Jacks, Focus point allocation and shorter ranges of missile weapons, but they all sound like not a very big deal. Is this reputation true to life? If so, what makes Warmahordes so special?


They aren't. At all. In fact beyond the fact the games invovled six-sided dice and models have stats that represent how good they are at various things I can't think of a single similarity the two game engines share. Well things are measured in inches I guess.

Your best bet would likely to just watch a video of some high-level matches.Seeing is beliving after all:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGsy05_g9M4

If the games really are that similar, you should be able to follow the action very easily even if some of the specific terminology is different.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/05 20:42:43


 
   
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The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

Also, melee attacks have a range. Not base contact.

Basic dudes have a .5" range on melee attacks. Some weapons have Reach, which gives them a 2" melee range. Some weapons even have a rule which gives them a 4" melee range.

Thats a pretty big deal.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

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Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







The biggest difference that hasn't already been covered above is the difference between threat ranges and the size of the table. In 40k you can hit everywhere on the board with everything at all times because ranges are so long and movement is so high, the end result is that it's a game of target priority and who brought the most efficient guns. WMH requires you to actually manoeuvre intelligently because you can't hit everywhere at all times to the same degree.

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The biggest difference that hasn't already been covered above is the difference between threat ranges and the size of the table.


This is the big one for me. This coupled with how terrain works in WMH. A forest blocks LoS for the whole footprint, like 4th ed 40k. 5th ed 40k onwards has a noddy system where only the actual trees block LoS.

This means that on some 40k tables the player winning first turn can shoot half the opponent's army off the table before they get a chance to even move. This leads to the infamous "Let's roll for who wins" mechanic in 40k whereby both players are desperately hoping to go first.

In WMH I generally don't care if I go first or second. Per WMH tourney rules, 1st player starts 7" in. Second players starts 10" in. Also, scenario points are not accrued until 2nd player's second turn. This is a nice way of balancing out first vs. second.

WMH in general isn't as dependent on dice rolls for various effects as 40k. There's no difficult terrain dice roll. You go half speed and that's it. Units that come on from the sides (Very rare in WMH to be fair), come on when and where you want them to, not dependent on a dice roll of 4+/3+ etc.

Each unit member in WMH matters, as well as which direction he is facing (You need to see target in front 180 arc to charge it). You can use front members of units to set up "no go" zones whereby they stab people who try to get by them. Thus a unit of 10 guys could be set as 3 "blockers" and then 7 counter attackers. There is more tactical flexibility with 10 models in WMH than with, say, 30 Ork boyz. The Ork boyz are a gestalt blob whose positioning only matters with regards to AOE weapons and ranges of their guns. When even one Ork is contacted in melee then the whole unit is locked in melee.

In WMH models are locked in melee on a model by model basis. Models (99+% of the time) can only kill what is in their 0.5-2-4" range. This means that an uber death lord of doom in melee with 2 mooks can only kill 2 mooks. This helps to reduce power of uber models. Also, there is no sweeping advance and no destruction of units that lose combat. Thus it is possible to use cheap troops to tie up enemy elites - an accurate historical tactic, as opposed to 40k where the unit of 30 mooks loses by 1, fails a morale check and all die for no reason.

Also, 40k generals are all really nice poeple and don't shoot into melee. No such restriction exists in WMH. If you have a bunch of heavy armoured dudes fighting a bunch of babes in fur bikinis (It's a real unit, I swear) then lobbing in a bunch of blasts to hit all those models - friend and foe - is a great tactic.

In fact shooting your own stuff can be a good tactic. There may be some tricksy elves that your caster cannot hit with his infantry clearing spell. Simply cast it at the back of your own guy, near the elves, and watch any AOE effects of the spell gib the squishy sneaky gits. Great with chain lightning and ashes to ashes.

I wouldn't say units are more versatile. Units usually only have a couple things they can do.


As opposed to the wealth of options in 40k? They can set up nearer the enemy. Their guns have varying degrees of effectiveness vs. different types of enemy armour and at different ranges. Some may even have the exciting rule that they ignore cover.
Compare this with units in WMH that can: Push models towards/ away from them; place LoS blocking AOEs around themselves to screen the army behind them; can dig in, making them very hard to hit with shooting and giving immunity to blast AOEs; can once per game become immune to all non-spell attacks (Combos nicely with their ability not to be targeted by spells); A unit that can curse enemies to take more damage; make its unit invisible; give a friendly model/ unit magical weapons for a turn; can declare an enemy unit as prey and get great bonuses attacking and damaging their prey; can heal nearby friendly beasts; can teleport a model within their boundary a whopping 8"; can calm down nearby beasts; can rile up beasts to make them stronger and more aggressive; can move through enemy models with their amazing gymnastic skills; can move through buildings and obstacles as they become partially ethereal; can make enemies explode into showers of giblets that can hurt nearby enemies; can gather the hearts of their slain foes and use them to buy extra attacks or heal themselves; must attack every time they kill something (Whether new target is friend or foe!); can transfer damage to their friends so is very hard to kill one guy with a number of weak attacks as the whole unit shares the pain; a destroyed model can choose a nearby comrade to die instead of himself; a unit where each model gets more armour and hits harder the fewer unit members are left alive; etc etc


So yes, I'd say a lot more versatility for units than in 40k.


Gaz


   
Made in pl
Raging Ravener





Poland

Thanks for all the answers! And, OK, WM/H combat is indeed different from Wh one.

Grey Templar, if the most important skill is judging distances, then that would be bad news. I think the charm of the wargames is in feeling like a general on a battlefield; with pre-measuring your feel like, I don't know, a construction worker?

I started watching the Warmahordes match report (and I'm still watching it, it's long). Right now I have to say, the top level tournament armies look far better than the top level tournament army for Wh40k I remember best, garish Necron-Tau with next to no infantry and no fluff at all (and that is despite my love of Warhammer feel).

Gaz, thanks for lots of details, I think they tell me a lot about WMH! When it comes to unit abilities, you could probably find a Warhammer counterpart for each ability you mentioned - but I get it, it's probably not that easy as coming up with them in WM/H, and limited playability of many (most!) units in 40k also limits the range of available abilities.

All in all, Warmahordes sounds like a game I would like very much. I'm actually thinking about tinkering with some Warhammer/Warmahordes rules hack, to play friendly, tactical games with my marines and necrons. Or maybe, when I finish painting my 500 points of 40k, some Warmachine will be next?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/06 22:40:41


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Made in gb
Thermo-Optical Hac Tao





Gosport, UK

 skybax wrote:
Thanks for all the answers! And, OK, WM/H combat is indeed different from Wh one.

Grey Templar, if the most important skill is judging distances, then that would be bad news. I think the charm of the wargames is in feeling like a general on a battlefield; with pre-measuring your feel like, I don't know, a construction worker?


Wait so PreMeasuring is bad because it makes you feel like a construction worker, but it's bad news that there's no Pre Measuring in WMH?
   
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The Conquerer






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Yeah, I'm confused.

Premeasuring is bad, no premeasuring = bad = Error, Unable to compute?

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in pl
Raging Ravener





Poland

Sorry, I must've got carried away with the metaphor!

Basically, I don't like when you have to judge distances by sight - that's not the challenge I want to face while playing a wargame. Similarly, a Jenga based combat rules are not what I'm looking for.

I thought that being able see the distance between 24 and 25 inches without measuring is a pretty mundane skill, one that has little to do with commanding an army. But then, I suppose that counting the probabilities of your lascannons wounding a tank also has little to do with actual battle experience. So probably it's all subjective.

EDIT: and now I realised that a good construction worker probably still takes measures instead of judging by sight... I admit, the metaphor kinda sucked.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/07 01:41:52


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The Conquerer






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Its an integral part of the game. Games are often won and lost by millimeters of distance. Those are the best game I feel. Where everyone's skill comes to the fore.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in gb
Been Around the Block




Similarly, a Jenga based combat rules are not what I'm looking for.


What's that mean? That jamming is a bad thing?

Basically, I don't like when you have to judge distances by sight - that's not the challenge I want to face while playing a wargame.


I can appreciate that. WMH might be better if there was premeasuring allowed. After all there's no "guess range" weapons like 40k used to have.

Being able to measure to any model within your caster's control zone does often give a very accurate idea of models in relation to each other.
Obviously this is better if you're playing Harbinger (20") vs. say, Xerxis (10").

I thought that being able see the distance between 24 and 25 inches without measuring is a pretty mundane skill, one that has little to do with commanding an army.


I believe that in ancient times there was a fine art in estimating when to loose the first volley at an approaching enemy: "Wait for it. Wait for it. Wait for it. FIRE!" etc


Gaz

   
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The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

Warmachine would become totally unbalanced if they allowed premeasuring.

It would give factions that have longer threat ranges a total advantage. Gunlines would also dominate.

With having to guess ranges, my army that is slow and has low charge distances I can guess my opponents threat range and hover around what I think is just outside of his range, but maybe he'll think he's got it and fail a charge.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







Gazzor wrote:
Basically, I don't like when you have to judge distances by sight - that's not the challenge I want to face while playing a wargame.


I can appreciate that. WMH might be better if there was premeasuring allowed. After all there's no "guess range" weapons like 40k used to have.

Being able to measure to any model within your caster's control zone does often give a very accurate idea of models in relation to each other.
Obviously this is better if you're playing Harbinger (20") vs. say, Xerxis (10").

I thought that being able see the distance between 24 and 25 inches without measuring is a pretty mundane skill, one that has little to do with commanding an army.


I believe that in ancient times there was a fine art in estimating when to loose the first volley at an approaching enemy: "Wait for it. Wait for it. Wait for it. FIRE!" etc


Gaz



First point: Premeasuring sounds daunting, but after a few games you stop noticing and sort of do things by habit.

Second point: You estimate the difference between 3 and 4 inches or 7 and 8 inches a lot more than you estimate the difference between 24 and 25 inches. The distances are so much shorter that the percentage of the distance you're trying to estimate is a lot larger,

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Pueblo, CO

Anyone who says that premeasuring is against the rules of warmahordes is either a liar, or completely unable to do math. You are permitted to check command ranges on activation, and your control range whenever. Is it really that difficult for people to do a little bit of basic, close enough trig during a game?

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Made in fr
Hallowed Canoness





Warmachine also involves a LOT more decisions than 40k. 40k is basically:
- where do I move my units
- which unit will this unit shoot at
- which unit will this unit assault
with a very few variation, like where will I deepstrike, or which psychic power will I use.
Warmachine adds to this:
- Activation order, that can be massively important. This one is often a VERY BIG deal.
- Tons of units that get to choose between two benefits, or types of attack.
- Focus allocation/fury management
- Power attacks.
Warmachine has also much more special rules that will impact the gameplay in other ways that “You hit stronger” or “You can take more punishment”. Putting some model knocked down can be a HUGE deal, I see no equivalent in 40k. There are many rules to move enemy models, or your own models outside of their activation, for instance.

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Dronze wrote:
Anyone who says that premeasuring is against the rules of warmahordes is either a liar, or completely unable to do math. You are permitted to check command ranges on activation, and your control range whenever. Is it really that difficult for people to do a little bit of basic, close enough trig during a game?


Command Ranges can only be checked from the leader of a unit to individual models in that unit (its not a "sweep" like Control Range is) and can only be checked during that unit's activation. Also a typical control range is around 14", it helps immensely when judging distances, but on a 48" table you won't be able to reach everywhere.
   
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Florida

I think 40k hinges almost entirely upon the strategy. WMH is based around making those decisions on the table and adapting to situations more than what is in the list.

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Pueblo, CO

PhantomViper wrote:
Dronze wrote:
Anyone who says that premeasuring is against the rules of warmahordes is either a liar, or completely unable to do math. You are permitted to check command ranges on activation, and your control range whenever. Is it really that difficult for people to do a little bit of basic, close enough trig during a game?


Command Ranges can only be checked from the leader of a unit to individual models in that unit (its not a "sweep" like Control Range is) and can only be checked during that unit's activation. Also a typical control range is around 14", it helps immensely when judging distances, but on a 48" table you won't be able to reach everywhere.


you don't have to. On a given table, unless it's just pure caster kill with no objectives, you have, generally, 2-3 reference points, as well as established objective zones. You may not have ful coverage, but you shouldn't need to, either. Let's face it, when you're playing warmahordes, you're only using, at max, about half the playable area, anyhow.

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Mighty Vampire Count






UK

 Grey Templar wrote:
Its an integral part of the game. Games are often won and lost by millimeters of distance. Those are the best game I feel. Where everyone's skill comes to the fore.


The pre-measuring / not pre-measuring was one of several things that put us of the game when we tried it. I much prefer Malifaux where pre-measuring is fine and not a work around built into the system (*)

(*) although as seen on this thread - this is a source of some debate amongst the players whether its part of the game or cheating.

I don't actually see the point in comparing 40k and WM/H - one is a skirmish game one is large scale game - different animals in all respects - your better off comparing other skirmish games to WM/H - like Malifaux , Dredd, Necromunda, Infinity.

Maybe Bolt Action to 40k?

The value needed to hit is also different. in 40k its only based on the skill of the attacker. In Warmachine its based on the skill of the attacker vs the skill of the defender


Not true its the same in both systems -often the opponents are equally skilled, but WS vs WS chart is part of the 40K, I would argue 40k does not reward high WS vs low WS anywhere near enough but that's a different argument.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/01/07 16:23:53


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 Mr Morden wrote:

(*) although as seen on this thread - this is a source of some debate amongst the players whether its part of the game or cheating.


For the 11.000th time, its not cheating when it specifically says in the rules what and when you can pre-measure and the only debate that I see is in the threads where you are involved because you insist on bringing this up like it was some great controversy...

You really should have understood this by now, its not that hard of a concept.
   
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Mighty Vampire Count






UK

PhantomViper wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:

(*) although as seen on this thread - this is a source of some debate amongst the players whether its part of the game or cheating.


For the 11.000th time, its not cheating when it specifically says in the rules what and when you can pre-measure and the only debate that I see is in the threads where you are involved because you insist on bringing this up like it was some great controversy...

You really should have understood this by now, its not that hard of a concept.


Yeah cos this post, before mine as I am sure you noted is completely ambiguous - well done, well read

Anyone who says that premeasuring is against the rules of warmahordes is either a liar, or completely unable to do math. You are permitted to check command ranges on activation, and your control range whenever. Is it really that difficult for people to do a little bit of basic, close enough trig during a game?


it works well with?

Warmachine would become totally unbalanced if they allowed premeasuring.


totally in sinc and agreement - really?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/07 17:26:57


I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

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Tea-Kettle of Blood




 Mr Morden wrote:
PhantomViper wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:

(*) although as seen on this thread - this is a source of some debate amongst the players whether its part of the game or cheating.


For the 11.000th time, its not cheating when it specifically says in the rules what and when you can pre-measure and the only debate that I see is in the threads where you are involved because you insist on bringing this up like it was some great controversy...

You really should have understood this by now, its not that hard of a concept.


Yeah cos this post, before mine as I am sure you noted is completely ambiguous - well done, well read

Anyone who says that premeasuring is against the rules of warmahordes is either a liar, or completely unable to do math. You are permitted to check command ranges on activation, and your control range whenever. Is it really that difficult for people to do a little bit of basic, close enough trig during a game?


it works well with?

Warmachine would become totally unbalanced if they allowed premeasuring.


totally in sinc and agreement - really?


Just because players have opinions on the effects on the game that unrestricted pre-measuring would have, doesn't mean that its legality has any ambiguity. You do realise that those posts where talking about unrestricted pre-measuring right? Because you really need to work on your reading skills if you interpreted those two posts as people not knowing if pre-measuring was allowed or not and under which circumstances...

I have given you the exact rules in the book, I have told you what the company that makes the games says about it, I have even given you the Infernal rulings that clarify this issue, what exactly more do you need to understand in which instances is pre-measuring allowed or not?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/07 17:38:45


 
   
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Mighty Vampire Count






UK

Its perfectly simple

the Game says "No premesuring" - Correct? Or is now just "you can sorta premesaure a bit and only a bit and only this way? and not everyone thinks you should?

So IMO its a stupid thing and a reason I (and others) did not like this and other game mechanics.




I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
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Tea-Kettle of Blood




 Mr Morden wrote:
Its perfectly simple

the Game says "No premesuring" - Correct? Or is now just "you can sorta premesaure a bit and only a bit and only this way? and not everyone thinks you should?

So IMO its a stupid thing and a reason I (and others) did not like this and other game mechanics.



No, the game doesn't say "No premeasuring" because WMH rules aren't written like that. The game rules explicitly state in what situations you can measure something and how that measurement is made. If there isn't a game rule stating that you can measure something, then you can't do it. How is that hard to understand?

And what everyone thinks should or should not be done is irrelevant when the rules are explicit about something. Also the people that think that things like measuring the control range is somehow "cheating" are people that are new to the game and that usually change their mind when they are shown the relevant rules and the different possibilities that that game mechanic allows. In 10+ years of playing this game, I can honestly say that you are the first person that I've met that seems to have problems grasping this concept for some reason.

That you think that it is stupid that no pre-measuring is allowed is something that you are entirely in your right to think. I, for instance, think that pre-measuring is something that takes away from a game's tactical depth and is usually done to cater to a less skilled player base. Since WMH seems to be growing in popularity I think I can safely say that the game can survive and prosper without you (and those others) so there is no need to change that particular mechanic, thankfully.
   
Made in us
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Madrak Ironhide







 Mr Morden wrote:
Its perfectly simple

the Game says "No premesuring" - Correct? Or is now just "you can sorta premesaure a bit and only a bit and only this way? and not everyone thinks you should?

So IMO its a stupid thing and a reason I (and others) did not like this and other game mechanics.





Not everyone thinks you should be able to measure everything anywhere (a theoretical rule).

However, everyone knows and understands that you can and should measure according
to the rules set by the game. (the actual rule).


The disagreement you see is between people who think whether or not the game should
have different rules than it already has. The pre-measuring rules in the game itself are
codified. In 40k terms, it's like making attack rolls. Some people think the WS / BS system
should work a different way, but they all understand how the game works and play the
game as it's set in its rules.

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"...he could never understand the sense of a contest in which the two adversaries agreed upon the rules." Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude 
   
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UK


And what everyone thinks should or should not be done is irrelevant when the rules are explicit about something. Also the people that think that things like measuring the control range is somehow "cheating" are people that are new to the game and that usually change their mind when they are shown the relevant rules and the different possibilities that that game mechanic allows. In 10+ years of playing this game, I can honestly say that you are the first person that I've met that seems to have problems grasping this concept for some reason.


Well thats what happened when we played a number the games and looked at mechanics in comparsion to the other games we played, it was a major turn off but as you say you dont want us to to play your game so we are all good................

I, for instance, think that pre-measuring is something that takes away from a game's tactical depth and is usually done to cater to a less skilled player base.

or avoids arguments, speeds play up and reduces cheating but hey whatever

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/07 18:18:44


I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
 
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