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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Louisiana

General Hobbs wrote:



Is the continuing case the reason Chapterhouse hasn't made anything new in ages????


Chapterhouse has come out with plenty of new stuff. The company has a thread in News and Rumors. They recently released some torsos for Terminator-sized models and a few other things. Chapterhouse has also done a Kickstarter for some alien fortifications.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/02/21 23:59:49


Kirasu: Have we fallen so far that we are excited that GW is giving us the opportunity to spend 58$ for JUST the rules? Surprised it's not "Dataslate: Assault Phase"

AlexHolker: "The power loader is a forklift. The public doesn't complain about a forklift not having frontal armour protecting the crew compartment because the only enemy it is designed to face is the OHSA violation."

AlexHolker: "Allow me to put it this way: Paramount is Skynet, reboots are termination attempts, and your childhood is John Connor."
 
   
Made in us
Posts with Authority






weeble1000 wrote:
General Hobbs wrote:



Is the continuing case the reason Chapterhouse hasn't made anything new in ages????


Chapterhouse has come out with plenty of new stuff. The company has a thread in News and Rumors. They recently released some torsos for Terminator-sized models and a few other things. Chapterhouse has also done a Kickstarter for some alien fortifications.
The terminator bits are pretty danged spiffy, in my opinion -



The thread has been pushed down a few pages, but here is a LINK.

The Auld Grump


Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.

The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.
 
   
Made in ca
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot






Canada

Those terminators actually do look like blatant ripoffs - I guess I can see why GW would be upset. I don't understand why GW doesn't get into the "bit game" again and solve the problem that way.

6000 pts
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2500 pts
3000 pts

"We're on an express elevator to hell - goin' down!"

"Depends on the service being refused. It should be fine to refuse to make a porn star a dildo shaped cake that they wanted to use in a wedding themed porn..." 
   
Made in gb
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





UK

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
Those terminators actually do look like blatant ripoffs - I guess I can see why GW would be upset. I don't understand why GW doesn't get into the "bit game" again and solve the problem that way.


I think the case has shown that "rip-off" isn't quite the right term. "Compatible with" and a side order of "inspired by" maybe.

   
Made in us
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
Those terminators actually do look like blatant ripoffs


Uh, they're like 85% still GWS terminators? It's just a front torso and a head swap.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
 
   
Made in gb
Tzeentch Aspiring Sorcerer Riding a Disc





staffordshire england

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
Those terminators actually do look like blatant ripoffs - I guess I can see why GW would be upset. I don't understand why GW doesn't get into the "bit game" again and solve the problem that way.

How are they rip offs
They are parts compatible with GW terminators, not complete models. They are just new fronts

bah ninja'ed

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/02/22 11:39:13




Its hard to be awesome, when your playing with little plastic men.
Welcome to Fantasy 40k

If you think your important, in the great scheme of things. Do the water test.

Put your hands in a bucket of warm water,
then pull them out fast. The size of the hole shows how important you are.
I think we should roll some dice, to see if we should roll some dice, To decide if all this dice rolling is good for the game.
 
   
Made in dk
Stormin' Stompa





 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
Those terminators actually do look like blatant ripoffs - I guess I can see why GW would be upset. I don't understand why GW doesn't get into the "bit game" again and solve the problem that way.


1. Only the chest and head is produced by Chapterhouse. The rest of the model looks so much like a GW Terminator because IT IS a GW Terminator.

2. Those particular products are not part of the lawsuit as they were made after the lawsuit started.

3. GW does not own every variation of a chest-plate....even if it do fit with official GW Terminator models.

4. Those chest-plates doesn't look like anything GW has previously produced.



Double ninja'ed

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/02/22 11:43:47


-------------------------------------------------------
"He died because he had no honor. He had no honor and the Emperor was watching."

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Made in ca
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot






Canada

Forgive the idiocy, it's 7am here and I've worked all night. What are they charging for these "inspired by" parts?

6000 pts
2000 pts
2500 pts
3000 pts

"We're on an express elevator to hell - goin' down!"

"Depends on the service being refused. It should be fine to refuse to make a porn star a dildo shaped cake that they wanted to use in a wedding themed porn..." 
   
Made in us
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
Forgive the idiocy, it's 7am here and I've worked all night. What are they charging for these "inspired by" parts?


I'm not sure if they have been released. You should post that question in this thread.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
 
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

 BaronIveagh wrote:
I hate to point this out, but GW is most likely scamming him. I dunno if anyone else has noticed this, but GW has a little clause that states that they are the sole owner of all materials submitted to them and that you surrender all IP rights to them by submitting them. Effectively, he's giving them four or five free sculpts per month without them having to pay him..
It's not a scam, it's just the way GW 'interviews' sculpting talent, and has done since at least the '90s. They want to see that the sculptor can sculpt to spec, and in GW's style.

Those test sculpts generally don't go anywhere, other than the occasional one being shown off at Games Day in an in-house sculptor's showcase.






Automatically Appended Next Post:
 d-usa wrote:
That nonsense has been going around since their painting contest. They had a legal statement that submitting will grand them a non-exclusive license to use your image for promotional purposes..

Longer than that. GW's forums had a clause in their rules stating that anything posted on the forums because their property as well.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/02/22 12:49:08


 
   
Made in gb
Lord Commander in a Plush Chair





Beijing

I can't see how it stands up legally. There's nothing to prove what I post is original. If I post someone else's pictures to a GW site, they don't become GW property, they weren't mine to give.
   
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Infiltrating Broodlord






 insaniak wrote:
 BaronIveagh wrote:
I hate to point this out, but GW is most likely scamming him. I dunno if anyone else has noticed this, but GW has a little clause that states that they are the sole owner of all materials submitted to them and that you surrender all IP rights to them by submitting them. Effectively, he's giving them four or five free sculpts per month without them having to pay him..
It's not a scam, it's just the way GW 'interviews' sculpting talent, and has done since at least the '90s. They want to see that the sculptor can sculpt to spec, and in GW's style.

Those test sculpts generally don't go anywhere, other than the occasional one being shown off at Games Day in an in-house sculptor's showcase.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 d-usa wrote:
That nonsense has been going around since their painting contest. They had a legal statement that submitting will grand them a non-exclusive license to use your image for promotional purposes..

Longer than that. GW's forums had a clause in their rules stating that anything posted on the forums because their property as well.


I was going to challenge that first assertion, for last time I looked, they only claimed a non exclusive licence. but I would have been wrong. Their submissions policy is a rip-off:

From their site:

Who owns the ideas that I submit to you?

For legal reasons we will only accept your submission if you agree to assign all intellectual property rights in it to us. This means that by making a submission you automatically give Games Workshop ownership and exclusive rights to use your submission for any purpose. It is important that you are comfortable with this before making a submission to us. Please do not make a submission if you do not agree to this.


   
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I remember Chris Fitzpatrick being annoyed with that policy - he had liked some of those models that he had submitted.

 Ouze wrote:
 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
Those terminators actually do look like blatant ripoffs


Uh, they're like 85% still GWS terminators? It's just a front torso and a head swap.


To be fair, he may have missed that part.

The Auld Grump

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/02/22 22:28:18


Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.

The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Bothell, WA

 insaniak wrote:
 BaronIveagh wrote:
I hate to point this out, but GW is most likely scamming him. I dunno if anyone else has noticed this, but GW has a little clause that states that they are the sole owner of all materials submitted to them and that you surrender all IP rights to them by submitting them. Effectively, he's giving them four or five free sculpts per month without them having to pay him..
It's not a scam, it's just the way GW 'interviews' sculpting talent, and has done since at least the '90s. They want to see that the sculptor can sculpt to spec, and in GW's style.

Those test sculpts generally don't go anywhere, other than the occasional one being shown off at Games Day in an in-house sculptor's showcase.


I don't think GW is scamming him, it's that he doesn't have any "GW themed" sculpts in his portfolio other than some Dreadnought Weapons and BFG models he did for SG/FW. He wwas too busy sculpting for other companies so he could make a living.

The point I was trying to make is that GW has this policy that they think will get them only the "best of the best" when in reality it discourages a lot of sculptors from even applying, at least it has discouraged several sculptors I know from applying.

Many freelance sculptors do that for a living, they have to sculpt to make money. Several sculptors I know would love to work for GW, and they have the talent, but not the time to sculpt models just for an application.

A lot of companies get to the point where their own policies start to hurt them, especially when combined with staff that won't (or are unwilling to) question the sense of those policies.

Yes GW does have specific things they like for their models, but that can be learned. They should be able to look at a sculptors portfolio and make a judgment on their skills based on existing sculpts.

But this does go along with GW stance that they are somehow "special" and not part for the wargames community. Their models are so different they require "special talent" to sculpt. IMHO, other than character models, GW models really aren't all that complex. Especially rank and file models.

I think it has more to do with a misunderstanding between the studio and whomever in HR wrote that hiring policy.







   
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To be fair - GW does have a 'house style' for each army, though that style seems to change every few editions.

I am curious as to whether GW will try to sue again over the new models, such as those nicely retro terminators - it didn't work the first time, so let's do it again!

Sort of like how well the thermonuclear war is going for Apple....

The Auld Grump, big companies can be just as stupid as little companies, but they have more money to spend while being stupid....

Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.

The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.
 
   
Made in gb
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





UK

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
To be fair - GW does have a 'house style' for each army, though that style seems to change every few editions.

I am curious as to whether GW will try to sue again over the new models, such as those nicely retro terminators - it didn't work the first time, so let's do it again!

Sort of like how well the thermonuclear war is going for Apple....

The Auld Grump, big companies can be just as stupid as little companies, but they have more money to spend while being stupid....


I remember a White Dwarf feature many moons ago where a sculptor's audition pieces were pictured so its nothing new. I always thought it might be because a sculptor may be fantastic when producing items that give their artistic talent full reign but may not be as good when trying to emulate a particular set style.

As for future legal action, if GW win some claims after appeal then is the door open for them to try again on new items? Previously others have used the term 'vexatious litigation'. Is that where you continually use legal actions that you have no chance of winning to effectively harass someone in some kind of war of attrition?

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Louisiana

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
To be fair - GW does have a 'house style' for each army, though that style seems to change every few editions.

I am curious as to whether GW will try to sue again over the new models, such as those nicely retro terminators - it didn't work the first time, so let's do it again!

Sort of like how well the thermonuclear war is going for Apple....

The Auld Grump, big companies can be just as stupid as little companies, but they have more money to spend while being stupid....


Well Grump, the Apple lawsuits are going really well for Apple. In the grand scheme of things...but the lawsuits are going well. And there is another trial coming up on patents that impact Samsung phones currently on the market. So it's heating up.

I don't think Apple was sad to get 1 billion dollars out of Samsung for the first several patents, and losing nothing to get it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
alphaecho wrote:


As for future legal action, if GW win some claims after appeal then is the door open for them to try again on new items? Previously others have used the term 'vexatious litigation'. Is that where you continually use legal actions that you have no chance of winning to effectively harass someone in some kind of war of attrition?


There's nothing inherently wrong with GW suing over new products. New products are new, and any artist has the right to protect its works. It would just be really stupid. Chapterhouse's costs of defense would be down dramatically, it would give CHS another crack at GW discovery, which is bound to turn up more dirt or lead to further sanctions for GW, and GW would be headed into an unfriendly court that was glad to see the back of it.

I wouldn't beat your head around GW's chances on appeal. It isn't worth the time. But if CHS wins on appeal it could become next to impossible for GW to sue CHS again, practically speaking. Not only could CHS walk into a court where the judge knows the appellate court disagreed with the judge and is staring over his shoulder, but GW would, as you suggest, have a much greater risk of a vexatious litigation tort, which requires that you know a lawsuit does not have merit when you file it. There would be a risk for GW that one of its claims would be too similar to something the court of appeals tossed out.

Further, if CHS prevails in appeal, say on the basis that GW never proved ownership of a mark after three years of litigation and a trial...THERE's a besutifully packaged malicious litigation claim. An indigent defendant sued on Christmas by an international corporation that dragged pro bono counsel through millions and millions of dollars of years long litigation only to fail to bring sufficient evidence to prevail on a THRESHOLD issue...

GW could wind up being on the hook for MILLIONS of dollars. I'm not saying how likely any of this is compared to other potential outcomes, but it IS on the list of potential outcomes.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/02/24 17:51:23


Kirasu: Have we fallen so far that we are excited that GW is giving us the opportunity to spend 58$ for JUST the rules? Surprised it's not "Dataslate: Assault Phase"

AlexHolker: "The power loader is a forklift. The public doesn't complain about a forklift not having frontal armour protecting the crew compartment because the only enemy it is designed to face is the OHSA violation."

AlexHolker: "Allow me to put it this way: Paramount is Skynet, reboots are termination attempts, and your childhood is John Connor."
 
   
Made in us
Posts with Authority






weeble1000 wrote:
 TheAuldGrump wrote:
To be fair - GW does have a 'house style' for each army, though that style seems to change every few editions.

I am curious as to whether GW will try to sue again over the new models, such as those nicely retro terminators - it didn't work the first time, so let's do it again!

Sort of like how well the thermonuclear war is going for Apple....

The Auld Grump, big companies can be just as stupid as little companies, but they have more money to spend while being stupid....


Well Grump, the Apple lawsuits are going really well for Apple. In the grand scheme of things...but the lawsuits are going well. And there is another trial coming up on patents that impact Samsung phones currently on the market. So it's heating up.

I don't think Apple was sad to get 1 billion dollars out of Samsung for the first several patents, and losing nothing to get it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
alphaecho wrote:


As for future legal action, if GW win some claims after appeal then is the door open for them to try again on new items? Previously others have used the term 'vexatious litigation'. Is that where you continually use legal actions that you have no chance of winning to effectively harass someone in some kind of war of attrition?


There's nothing inherently wrong with GW suing over new products. New products are new, and any artist has the right to protect its works. It would just be really stupid. Chapterhouse's costs of defense would be down dramatically, it would give CHS another crack at GW discovery, which is bound to turn up more dirt or lead to further sanctions for GW, and GW would be headed into an unfriendly court that was glad to see the back of it.

I wouldn't beat your head around GW's chances on appeal. It isn't worth the time. But if CHS wins on appeal it could become next to impossible for GW to sue CHS again, practically speaking. Not only could CHS walk into a court where the judge knows the appellate court disagreed with the judge and is staring over his shoulder, but GW would, as you suggest, have a much greater risk of a vexatious litigation tort, which requires that you know a lawsuit does not have merit when you file it. There would be a risk for GW that one of its claims would be too similar to something the court of appeals tossed out.

Further, if CHS prevails in appeal, say on the basis that GW never proved ownership of a mark after three years of litigation and a trial...THERE's a besutifully packaged malicious litigation claim. An indigent defendant sued on Christmas by an international corporation that dragged pro bono counsel through millions and millions of dollars of years long litigation only to fail to bring sufficient evidence to prevail on a THRESHOLD issue...

GW could wind up being on the hook for MILLIONS of dollars. I'm not saying how likely any of this is compared to other potential outcomes, but it IS on the list of potential outcomes.
A bit of a correction there Weeble 1000 -

The 'Thermonuclear War' was not Apple against Samsung - it was a quote taken from Jobs in his autobiography, and that he was going to destroy Google (not Samsung - which was a lot closer to a proper IP case), and that he would be willing to spend every dime that Apple controls in order to destroy Google.

Steve Jobs wrote:Our lawsuit is saying, ‘Google, you ***ing ripped off the iPhone, wholesale ripped us off,’” the infamous quote reads. “Grand theft. … I will spend my last dying breath if I need to, and I will spend every penny of Apple’s $40 billion in the bank, to right this wrong. I’m going to destroy Android, because it’s a stolen product. I’m willing to go thermonuclear war on this'


It is a strange thing when a company tries to block a published statement from its CEO from being used in trial. (And it didn't work - the judge ruled that a published and public statement is, well, published and public.)

About a year ago at a press conference Larry of Google was asked about it by Wired Magazine and his comment was 'Hows that working?'

As in the GW situation there is a great deal of irony - the iPhones OS is based on the interface used on Mac - which was taken by both Jobs and Gates from the work going on a Palo Alto Research Center at the time.

Jobs was up in arms about Google stealing an idea that he and Bill gates had stolen....

Much like GW being up in arms about folks using the term Space Marine, or the eight pointed star of Chaos....

And Job's expressed willingness to bankrupt his company in trying to destroy the competition bears a similarity to the amount of money that GW spent on the CHS lawsuit.

Apple still has the biggest piece of the smart phone market with the various iPhones- but the Android market in its total is much larger than the iPhone.

Though I think that at least the iPhone is keeping up with industry growth.

The Auld Grump

Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.

The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Louisiana

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
A bit of a correction there Weeble 1000 -

The 'Thermonuclear War' was not Apple against Samsung - it was a quote taken from Jobs in his autobiography, and that he was going to destroy Google (not Samsung - which was a lot closer to a proper IP case), and that he would be willing to spend every dime that Apple controls in order to destroy Google.

The Auld Grump


I'm well aware of what you were referring to. But Apple's case against Samsung is also a case against Google. Ka-BLAM! Samsung is using the Android OS developed by Google, and Google is a party to the current trial given that some of the latest batch of patents have been asserted against the Android OS. Same lawsuit though, Judge Koh simply chopped up the many patents into separate, more manageable, trials.

And although that statement came in, a jury still awarded Apple over a billion dollars and Samsung nothing, and then another jury sided with Apple when Judge Koh screwed with the damages. So thus far in the US the score is Apple 2, Samsung 0 when it comes to trials. We'll have to see what happens when Google is in the mix.

Kirasu: Have we fallen so far that we are excited that GW is giving us the opportunity to spend 58$ for JUST the rules? Surprised it's not "Dataslate: Assault Phase"

AlexHolker: "The power loader is a forklift. The public doesn't complain about a forklift not having frontal armour protecting the crew compartment because the only enemy it is designed to face is the OHSA violation."

AlexHolker: "Allow me to put it this way: Paramount is Skynet, reboots are termination attempts, and your childhood is John Connor."
 
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

Well, Google acquired the cellular element of Motorola about 2 years back.

Motorola, having then fallen on hard times, were real trailblazers back in the day, and hold/held patents for a number of critical cellphone elements dating back (I believe) to the 1950s.

Speculation in the industry at the time was that Google had done this purely for the patents, with a view to smacking Apple with a counter claim at some point to be determined in the future.

I've since left the industry, so not been following the situation as closely, but I don't believe this has happened yet.

Could be interesting when it does...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/02/24 23:28:17


We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Louisiana

 azreal13 wrote:
Well, Google acquired the cellular element of Motorola about 2 years back.

Motorola, having then fallen on hard times, were real trailblazers back in the day, and hold/held patents for a number of critical cellphone elements dating back (I believe) to the 1950s.

Speculation in the industry at the time was that Google had done this purely for the patents, with a view to smacking Apple with a counter claim at some point to be determined in the future.

I've since left the industry, so not been following the situation as closely, but I don't believe this has happened yet.

Could be interesting when it does...


This is straying way off topic, but the Great Cell Phone Wars are entering into a new phase. The MENS club is starting to disintegrate, and young upstarts like LG, Apple, and Google are acquiring old MENS club patent portfolios, first to wield against the oppressive market-controlling machinations of the old boys, but now are entering into their own phase of competitive infighting over market share. The King is dead, long live the King, and all that.

Still, it is fabulous for business.

Kirasu: Have we fallen so far that we are excited that GW is giving us the opportunity to spend 58$ for JUST the rules? Surprised it's not "Dataslate: Assault Phase"

AlexHolker: "The power loader is a forklift. The public doesn't complain about a forklift not having frontal armour protecting the crew compartment because the only enemy it is designed to face is the OHSA violation."

AlexHolker: "Allow me to put it this way: Paramount is Skynet, reboots are termination attempts, and your childhood is John Connor."
 
   
Made in us
Posts with Authority






However - the suits against Samsung were handled in a manner bearing upon the physical aspects of the product - not the much more nebulous field of software design.

If I remember properly the portions dealing with the Android OS were stripped from the case by the Apple attorneys, well before it went to court, in order to focus on the much more provable physical aspects. (Win the parts that you are confident of winning before focusing on the less provable.)

One thing about some of the more vaporous aspects of IP law is that it seems that the patent is being granted on the questions, not the answers - so that if two people come up with widely, or even wholly, different answers to the same question then the one that patents first gets to prevent the other method from being used. (And this is a big portion of what keeps the patent trolls in business.)

Which is very much against the original purpose of the patent system.

For example,Apple is doing much better against Samsung than they did against Microsoft in regards to the 'look and feel' of the product. (One thing that I will never, ever forgive Jobs for is popularizing that horrible bastard English term 'tangiblize'. )

The nature of IP is changing faster than the legal means to deal with it.

The Auld Grump

Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.

The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Runnin up on ya.

So....how long til we get any movement on this case (not the Apple one)?

Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do 
   
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Depends how long this latest mandatory settlement conference takes, agnosto - weeble, do you happen to know if there is a period it must go on for before the appeals can get under way?

2021-4 Plog - Here we go again... - my fifth attempt at a Dakka PLOG

My Pile of Potential - updates ongoing...

Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.


 Kanluwen wrote:
This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.

Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...

tneva82 wrote:
You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something... 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Louisiana

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
However - the suits against Samsung were handled in a manner bearing upon the physical aspects of the product - not the much more nebulous field of software design.

If I remember properly the portions dealing with the Android OS were stripped from the case by the Apple attorneys, well before it went to court, in order to focus on the much more provable physical aspects. (Win the parts that you are confident of winning before focusing on the less provable.)

One thing about some of the more vaporous aspects of IP law is that it seems that the patent is being granted on the questions, not the answers - so that if two people come up with widely, or even wholly, different answers to the same question then the one that patents first gets to prevent the other method from being used. (And this is a big portion of what keeps the patent trolls in business.)

Which is very much against the original purpose of the patent system.

For example,Apple is doing much better against Samsung than they did against Microsoft in regards to the 'look and feel' of the product. (One thing that I will never, ever forgive Jobs for is popularizing that horrible bastard English term 'tangiblize'. )

The nature of IP is changing faster than the legal means to deal with it.

The Auld Grump


Again, the lawsuit was chopped up by Judge Koh because it is wildly impractical to try dozens of patents at the same time, both parties simply went with their strongest patents first.

The patent system does not allow a 'race to the patent office'. Whoever reduces an invention to practice first gets priority, not whoever files first. Problems in the patent system largely come down to a lackadaisical PTO. Patent trolls don't make patents; patent trolls buy patents. They buy patents that could conceivably read on now popular or important technology and sue for costs of litigation. They buy patents that tend to be relatively old and that slipped past the PTO for one reason or another, and then interpret them in an insane manner. So blame the Courts too for not dismissing enough cases.

Apple wasn't using the legal team against Microsoft that it is using against Samsung and Google .

The nature of technology is changing fast, and the PTO moves slowly, that's true. But the system isn't broken. There are lots of legitimate patent suits in the world, and Apple's case against Samsung was the epitome of legitimate. Samsung simply copied what it knew to be patented technology to get a jump on the market and bleed market share directly from Apple. And got a billion dollar slap on the wrist for it. That's a perversion of the patent system; when you can flagrantly violate someone's patent rights knowing that even in the worst case the benefits outweigh the costs.

These days, patents and trademarks are being weaponized, which is a problem, and companies react to that threat by acquiring their own extensive portfolios, and by patenting around their actual inventions in addition to the invention itself. Then when those companies have a dispute those defensive portfolios become offensive, and when their business starts to slip, the portfolios become a means to monetize an asset, often through litigation. But this is all eminently within the extant power of both the PTO and the Courts to curtail. The PTO needs a much larger budget and needs to deny more patent claims; the Courts need to be firmer about dismissing cases.

We are headed that way, but the law, as you point out, moves much more slowly than the pace of technological innovation. Still, it isn't like the world is burning or anything.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Dysartes wrote:
Depends how long this latest mandatory settlement conference takes, agnosto - weeble, do you happen to know if there is a period it must go on for before the appeals can get under way?


Nope. Depends on the mediator. There may be some schedule of statement, response, statement, conference that is private between the parties and the mediator. For all we know there's a final conference scheduled next week or next month. Still, I can't expect negotiations will go on much past the end of March, unless the parties are serious about settling out.

If the briefing schedule isn't back on by the end of March I think it is safe to assume that the parties are in serious and substantive settlement discussions.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/02/25 12:47:07


Kirasu: Have we fallen so far that we are excited that GW is giving us the opportunity to spend 58$ for JUST the rules? Surprised it's not "Dataslate: Assault Phase"

AlexHolker: "The power loader is a forklift. The public doesn't complain about a forklift not having frontal armour protecting the crew compartment because the only enemy it is designed to face is the OHSA violation."

AlexHolker: "Allow me to put it this way: Paramount is Skynet, reboots are termination attempts, and your childhood is John Connor."
 
   
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Runnin up on ya.

Is there any reason for CH to settle at this point? Though if money changes hands, I can see probono counsel recommending a settlement.

Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do 
   
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 agnosto wrote:
Is there any reason for CH to settle at this point? Though if money changes hands, I can see probono counsel recommending a settlement.


That's up to Chapterhouse, really.

I think it is pretty safe to assume WilmerHale is working pro bono. All the other firms were, and CHS couldn't afford to pay those Wilmer guys. So financial cost of litigation is no reason to settle; CHS has free (and darn good) representation. It also depends on what GW is offering.

As a thought experiment, let's consider the maximum that GW could possibly offer to CHS:

1: Covenant not to sue, i.e. we promise to never sue you again for any reason
2: Large sum of money
3: Public apology

That together is probably the very most GW could offer to CHS short of something unreasonable like doing the worm. If GW offered that, the only reason to not settle would be if you were determined to make case law.

But beyond something completely academic like the above, I can't really get into reasons CHS might want to settle. It would be reading tea leaves.

Kirasu: Have we fallen so far that we are excited that GW is giving us the opportunity to spend 58$ for JUST the rules? Surprised it's not "Dataslate: Assault Phase"

AlexHolker: "The power loader is a forklift. The public doesn't complain about a forklift not having frontal armour protecting the crew compartment because the only enemy it is designed to face is the OHSA violation."

AlexHolker: "Allow me to put it this way: Paramount is Skynet, reboots are termination attempts, and your childhood is John Connor."
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Runnin up on ya.

I was speaking hypothetically. You lawyerly types can sure be literal but I suppose you have to be.

I really don't see GW offering up any of those things so I suppose we'll be seeing some movement in the case next month or soonish.

Thanks for accommodating my curiosity.

Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do 
   
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weeble1000 wrote:
 agnosto wrote:
Is there any reason for CH to settle at this point? Though if money changes hands, I can see probono counsel recommending a settlement.


That's up to Chapterhouse, really.

I think it is pretty safe to assume WilmerHale is working pro bono. All the other firms were, and CHS couldn't afford to pay those Wilmer guys. So financial cost of litigation is no reason to settle; CHS has free (and darn good) representation. It also depends on what GW is offering.

As a thought experiment, let's consider the maximum that GW could possibly offer to CHS:

1: Covenant not to sue, i.e. we promise to never sue you again for any reason
2: Large sum of money
3: Public apology

That together is probably the very most GW could offer to CHS short of something unreasonable like doing the worm. If GW offered that, the only reason to not settle would be if you were determined to make case law.

But beyond something completely academic like the above, I can't really get into reasons CHS might want to settle. It would be reading tea leaves.


At this point, other than not spending any more money on this case, what would GW's incentive be to drop the suit?

To avoid precedents/law that would hurt their business?

   
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Somewhere in south-central England.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe it is too late for GW to drop the case.

It has been fought, and now the argument is about how much can be changed in the appeal process.

Presumably GW believe they will get some of the roughly 75% points that went against them, changed back in their favour.

I don't know at what stage the "obiter dicta" come out and get incorporated into case law.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
 
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