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Hi dakka, I run a Late War German tank company largely consisting of Panzer IV H but lately, I've been getting a little bit frustrated with the seemingly underwhelming performance of these mediums.

To me, especially when in comparison to some of the other German late war tanks, seem to be overly fragile and not worth the low points you pay for. Despite having less survivability than T-34s (the Russian counterparts), they cost more points and therefore not as spammable. Their decent gun seems to be the only saving grace but becomes much less effective when facing any sort of heavy tanks and with firepower 3+, its not the most reliable way to bust out hiding infantry.

If you do run Panzer IVs, how do you run them and what do you think I can do to improve my experience with them?


PS: As a side question, aside from the Grey Wolf, which German book would you recommend for me to look into for tank companies? Grey Wolf is nice but... doesn't have any Jadpanthers in it, one of my all-time favorite tank destroyers.

They have less armour than a T-34 but their survivability is arguably better due to their Veteran rating, Storm Trooper and Protected Ammo rules.

What do you usually face on the other side of the table?

I'd check out the free Devils Charge lists on Forces of War.

http://forces.flamesofwar.com/index.aspx

I see all kinds of stuff. Finns, Soviets, Americans, other Germans... infantry and tank companies mostly, not as much mech infantry but my local community is rather large so there is a good variety.

The pz4 has to focus fire on one platoon until it's dead and then move to the next. You do that with over lots of tanks and smoke. I run 14 pz4s pumas AA and smoke and it works very well together and if points allow jut add more tanks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The pz4 has to focus fire on one platoon until it's dead and then move to the next. You do that with over lots of tanks and smoke. I run 14 pz4s pumas AA and smoke and it works very well together and if points allow jut add more tanks.

ChrisRR wrote:
The pz4 has to focus fire on one platoon until it's dead and then move to the next. You do that with over lots of tanks and smoke. I run 14 pz4s pumas AA and smoke and it works very well together and if points allow jut add more tanks.

This was actually the strategy I've been employing. Cram down as much concentrated mobile armor as I can into a small area and basically steamroll. But this strategy has been costly so far, I lose way too many Panzer IVs in each mini-engagement where I am worn out and can't hold objectives.

The best PzIV list is free
http://www.flamesofwar.com/Portals/0/Documents/Briefings/2-and-Lehr-Panzerdivison.pdf

If you want JagdPanthers, check out Remagen as well.

AndrasOtto wrote:
The best PzIV list is free
http://www.flamesofwar.com/Portals/0/Documents/Briefings/2-and-Lehr-Panzerdivison.pdf

If you want JagdPanthers, check out Remagen as well.

Is there a reason why you say its the best?

It's always attack and gets Spearhead w GepAufks. You can Spearhead or Recon move w 5 platoons easily.

It's well rounded, and has effective recon. Lehr can take PzIV/70s as tank hunters too.

Here's 1650 list that can go to 1750 by taking Airsup. Everything but the rockets Spearhead or Recon move.

German Panzer (Lehr)

Tank Company, from pdf - Panzers to the Meuse, page 8

Compulsory Panzerkompanie HQ (p.9) - CinC Panzer IV J (90 pts)

Compulsory Panzer Platoon (p.10) - Command Panzer IV J, 3x Panzer IV J (350 pts)

Compulsory Panzer Platoon (p.10) - Command Panzer IV J, 3x Panzer IV J (350 pts)

Panzer Platoon (p.10) - Command Panzer IV J, 3x Panzer IV J (350 pts)

Gepanzerte Aufklarungs Platoon (p.17) - Command Panzerfaust MG, 6x Panzerfaust MG, 4x Sd Kfz 250 half-track (285 pts)
- 3x Sd Kfz 250 half-track (30 pts)
- Replace Command Panzerfaust MG with Command Panzerfaust SMG (0 pts)
- Tank-hunter (20 pts)

Panzerspah Platoon (p.18) - Command Sd Kfz 234/2 Puma, Sd Kfz 234/2 Puma (100 pts)

Volks Rocket Launcher Battery (p.33) - Command SMG, Observer Rifle, Kubelwagen, 3x 15cm NW41 rocket launcher (70 pts)


1645 Points, 6 Platoons

14 PzIVs, a hard hitting infantry platoon, recon, smoke.


I only have 10 PzIVs myself so I usually take 3 Stugs or PzIV/70s instead of the last PZIV platoon.

Compulsory Panzerkompanie HQ (p.9) - CinC Panzer IV J (90 pts)

Compulsory Panzer Platoon (p.10) - Command Panzer IV J, 3x Panzer IV J (350 pts)

Compulsory Panzer Platoon (p.10) - Command Panzer IV J, 3x Panzer IV J (350 pts)

Tank-Hunter Platoon (p.27) - Command Panzer IV/70 (V), 2x Panzer IV/70 (V) (450 pts)

Gepanzerte Aufklarungs Platoon (p.17) - Command Panzerfaust MG, 6x Panzerfaust MG, 4x Sd Kfz 250 half-track (285 pts)
- 3x Sd Kfz 250 half-track (30 pts)
- Replace Command Panzerfaust MG with Command Panzerfaust SMG (0 pts)
- Tank-hunter (20 pts)

Panzerspah Platoon (p.18) - Command Sd Kfz 234/2 Puma, Sd Kfz 234/2 Puma (100 pts)

Volks Rocket Launcher Battery (p.33) - Command SMG, Observer Rifle, Kubelwagen, 3x 15cm NW41 rocket launcher (70 pts)

1745 Points, 6 Platoons

The pz4 needs to be veteran and concealed that is the only way they survive and another thing storm trooper. Is your friend! If you have to move and get less shots it's not the end of the world as long as you loose less tanks in return fire. The pz4 list is a bit of a glass hammer but can be very effective if you take your time and minimize the return fire

I agree that the online only list, that is linked to, is probably your best bet for running Pz IV's

This article might give you some ideas as well

http://www.wwpd.net/2014/11/building-better-german-tournament-tank.html

Op- I forgot PTTM Lehr can take Jagdpanthers also in the Tank Hunter platoons. 2-3 per slot, and the GepAufks can take two slots while the TankKo can take 1.

I remember the tactica articles on Strategerygames.com favoured Pz IV's.
Bottom line is the tactica argues you need more tanks over better tanks.
Site is limited access at present but I think this is the link you need:

strategerygames.com/messageboard/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=464

Can be your friend! If you have to transfer and acquire less pictures it's not the end of the planet if you free much less tanks in return fire.