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Hey Everyone,

The other day, I finally received my end of a huge trade ($600 + of my MTG for $600+ of Orks). Needless to say, I was pretty excited after waiting a little over a week to receive it (it was sent from a PO). However, as I was opening the package, I discovered some of the miniatures were damaged Some were just broken off at the contact points (aka where arms connect to torso, or torso is glued to the legs), which isn't a big deal, because I kinda expect that to happen when/if a model get's jostled a bit, and it's basically became unassembled.

However, some of the damage was a bit more serious. Here's a basic rundown of what I found so far.

1. Some OOP stormboyz (part old plastic, part metal) had some hands/weapons broken at the wrist. The big issue with this is I was probably going to resell them in favor of newer models. They were packed in a ziploc bag with some tissue/paper towel padding inside.
2. Fully assembled BattleWagon had part of the Chassis containing wheels snapped off, a wheel on the other side snapped at connecting point, Grabbin' Klaw arm broke where it connects to BW and where Klaw connects to arm. BW was wrapped in at least one layer of Bubble-wrap, and packed in with the rest of the models,bags inside a larger box
3. Some spikey bits and weapons broken off warbikers.
4. Deffkopta blades broken. Bikers and Deffkoptas were in a larger plastic container with some bubble-wrap.

So, I'm not sure what extent of damage I should expect. I think models coming "unglued", is to be expected and in my experience, it happens in almost every trade. but when they actual model becomes broken, I'm not sure if that's acceptable or I should ask for some kinda compensation.

I did take pics too, if anyone wants to see those.
In the other guys defense, I would like point out they came from rather far (overseas, from an APO address) and the guy has a very high trader rating (at least 150 trades on Bartertown). I'm not sure if this was due to poor packaging by the other trader or poor package handling by the USPS?

So, again, it's been a long time since I've had to deal with broken models. What should I expect in general and how do you guys suggest I handle this situation?

Depends on the kind of damage.

Parts coming unglued without any damage to the model (or paint, if you care about it and aren't just stripping and repainting them) = just glue them back without any complaints, as long as it wasn't the result of careless packaging. Minor damage like that happens all the time when shipping models, and complaining about it takes longer than just gluing it back together.

Broken pieces that can't be easily repaired = get a refund. Unless the seller is an idiot the package was insured for its full value and you should try to get USPS to pay for the damage. If that fails, or the package wasn't insured, demand a refund (possibly a partial refund for some of the models) or reversal of the trade. You should not feel any obligation to keep damaged goods.

I appreciate your response Pergerine, though I'm curious if you actually read my thread, because this was clearly a trade and yeah, I am aware that some pieces will come unglued. Either way, I posted pics. I hope I can get input. What does everyone think about this? Easy to repair? Will the items be valued less because they have been repaired? Also, we did insure both trades for $500 at least. Idk if I can try to get that back from USPS or maybe a portion of that??

Honestly yeah it sounds like it could of been packed better, but that damage looks easily repairable with some super glue.

I trade on bartertown a lot. I've been trading there for about 7-8 years, and i've completed over 150 trades...

Models coming undone at joins... it's going to happen a little bit, though packaging does wonders to mitigate this. (aside: Bubble wrap people, bubble wrap! It ain't that expensive, and its a lot less expensive and hassle than a pissed off trade partner).

However if the models are just thrown in with no individual cushion to each model, and there's lots of breakage, yeah i'm going to be pissed and my trade partner is going to hear about it. Particularly in a large trade. I be your trade partner wouldn't like it if you threw the 600 bucks of nice conditin MTG cards in a boot box and send it that way and they showed up creased, nicked, and bent ? Right ?

So a little breakage is sometimes unavoidable. What I see with your orcs looks like bad packaging to me, but should be easily repairable if you're careful with new glue joins. Note, i can't quite tell if if is JUST joins or if there's actual piece breakage. Piece breakage i would not be okay with (again, bad packaging is the senders fault). But this is doable fixing.

However there's just no damn excuse for that battlewagon or deffkoptas. That's damaged. That's not acceptable. I don't know how he packaged that so that was the end result after transit, but i would absolutely not accept that, and i'd be contacting my trade partner letting him know that this is not what we agreed on, and 1) he can have all his stuff back in its current state, and i will ship it back to him using his shipping materials, or 2) we can modify the deal based on the unfixable models. People may say "the battlewagon's not that bad". Yes it is. The wheel isn't a big deal, but in my estimation with the GW vehicle kits that are slot and groove or frame based glue joins, you have one shot to do it right, and repairing it will leave a glue run. Unless my trade ad said (which, sarcasm alert, it doesn't !) "I'm okay with big gloppy messy glue jobs, and its a bonus if you package it all badly so that not only do i get a messy glue job, but ultimately i have to do the repair.", I would be contacting seller with a complaint.

I would also look at the packaging job and see if this was "reasonable" breakage, which from the pics, there's just about no way i would consider the wagon and copters reasonable. Tissue paper and papertowel in ziplock bags is not how you package up fragile models.


... i'll end this post the same way i began it. Bubble wrap people. Its your friend in trades. Protects paint, protects minis, when you're used to using it you can protect oddly shaped models with ease (ya know, like deffkoptas...) ... and like 50 feet of it is 8 bucks. Not having to go through a situation just like this is worth it to me.

I also trade allot on barter town too.. and seen the same things..
Once got a Britannia army in a trade that was placed in a plastic bag, wrapped in shipping paper and shipped from Norway.....
Trust me the package was DOA.. But most I wanted to strip and needed re-gluing anyway

I cant agree more with Haight.. use your brain when shipping stuff... things will break no matter how you ship..
but try to keep it to a minimum..

Just remember this image the next time you mail models at the post office..

The most important thing to consider is how they were packed. Did the sender make an honest effort to pack them appropriately with padding? For something advertised as fully painted, I'd expect individual padding on most if not all the figs. For fully plastic models, putting a squad into a bag together may work as long as there is padding around the bag. I'd definitely separately bubble wrap any characters or vehicles or anyone with parts sticking way out. Was there enough room in the box to include padding or were the figs stuffed and squeezed into it?

I've had someone on bartertown with a 600+ rating send me two assembled Forgeworld vehicles squished into a box with nothing but a pair of grocery bags as "padding" and I've had an ebay seller with thousands of postive reviews send a painted squad and HQ (11 figs) jammed into a box smaller than a kids juice carton with a single packing peanut (not exaggerating... one peanut) which had both packages arrive in dozens more pieces than they should have. Neither made any effort so I brought up the issue. Another time, I had someone who wrapped every model in bubble wrap but the outside package had some damage (it looked like it was thrown at the post office... too much damage for just a simple fall) and so did the models inside; I just mentioned it but said it wasn't the sender's fault and wouldn't hold it against him.

Before doing anything, I'd post and then consider if the sender made an honest effort to prevent damage. You've mentioned some of the details above already. I wouldn't personally consider the metal/plastic stormboyz as properly packaged. Even if the battlewagon was wrapped in one layer of bubble wrap, unless it was secured in someway in the box and not just floating around in a bigger package, I'd consider it to be improperly packaged. If the deffkoptas were also loosely swimming around, the same holds true. Also, what percentage of models overall would you say came damaged? Even with proper packaging and padding, I'd expect about 1 in 10 to have something that needs fixing of some sort and probably wouldn't consider raising the issue unless more than 20% were damaged as long as the packaging was well done. YMMV.

Hey Everyone,

I think I'll step in now and say a few things. First, I feel the shipper did make a Good effort to package them to a decent standard. If this were an average package of a few units, I would say he did a fine job. But being a larger trade where everything was in a huge box and there were lots of bags and smaller packed parts to bang against each other---perhaps there could have been some improvements.

Also, the box containing everything didn't seem to have any external damage, except the corners were a little dented/beat up, but it seems like that's your expected shipping wear and tear.

I can't remember 100% exact details, because I wasn't expecting to encounter damaged items. I almost wish I had taken pics/video as I unwrapped it...

So, to review and restate what I said earlier..

1. The Battlewagon and other large units (like a Trukk) were wrapped in a sheet of BubbleWrap. It was rolled around the BW at least twice, but with a delicate extension like a Grabbin' Klaw, I think perhaps it could have used more padding/immobilization, both to stop the BW from moving around and protect the Grabbing Klaw.
2. The Deffkoptas and Bikes were in a larger Tupperware type container, with maybe a little bubblewrap or plastic bag included as well as some units in ziploc bags, however, where was still a lot of room to shake/bang around against each other... AFAIR (as far as I remember).
3. The Stormboyz were packed in a ziploc bag with a paper towel inserted in the middle.

Aside from the afore-mentioned, most damage is minor like stuff being detached and weapon handles broken. Also, I haven't full inspected all the Boyz/Nobz models, but they seem in relatively good condition. The big issues were the ones I already mentioned.
Here's a Full list of the trade. The stuff NOS/NIB didn't really suffer any damage.

Your
7th Ed. Codex
Warboss on Bike konversion
Ghazghull Thraka 1 arm detached
Grukk FaceRippa (NOS)
Grukk FaceRippe (assembled) Gun arm detached
50 Boyz (20 with Shootas) (Pnt)
10 Bikers (pnt) * DMG ABOve
15 Stormboyz OOP Metal (pnt)** DMG above
3 Killa Kanz (Stormclaw) NOS
22 Nobz (5 NOS)
6 Deffkoptas (asm, some pnt) dmg described above
1 Trukk (bare, assembled) back panel on bed and front axle with wheels become detached)
1 BattleWagon (pnt w. Deffrolla)
10 Gretchen (StormClaw)

These items came from a third party
3 Deffkoptas
5 Lootas (NIB)
Deffdread (NIB)
Trukk (NIB)
20 Boyz (NIB)
20 boyz (condition?)
4 Nobz
Warboss (AOBR? StormClaw?)

Thanks for perspective. I still wouldn't be okay with the koptas. Tupperware with a bit of buffer is not okay for highly irregular shaped easily breaking models like these.

I have shipped entire armies individually wrapped model by model in large priority boxes. Yup. Costs a lot for the bubble wrap (when i sold my VC like this, it cost two 50 foot rolls.... 16 bucks, but meh themst he breaks. Better that than an angry trade partner. As for irregular shaped models: no excuse. I shipped a fully assembled Coven Throne with no breakage. Not even the lances. Using just very skillfully applied bubble wrap.
[url]
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Vampire-Counts-Coven-Throne[/url]

Honestly, if the lances broke i don't think anyone could blame anyone, but the point is if you're willing to spend a bit of money to make sure your trade partner is happy, its amazing what you can pull off.


So... yeah. I'd be unhappy about the deffkoptas and battle wagon. Particularly if you were looking to profit-flip these models, as you'll now have to market them as repaired and rehab'd (at least, you should / better ... if you don't that is risky pissing off a trader for lack of full disclosure... a topic for another thread though, lol).


But... that's just me. A "good honest attempt" is all well and nice, but I like good packaging in my trades, and i expect it.

 Haight wrote:
Thanks for perspective. I still wouldn't be okay with the koptas. Tupperware with a bit of buffer is not okay for highly irregular shaped easily breaking models like these.

I have shipped entire armies individually wrapped model by model in large priority boxes. Yup. Costs a lot for the bubble wrap (when i sold my VC like this, it cost two 50 foot rolls.... 16 bucks, but meh themst he breaks. Better that than an angry trade partner. As for irregular shaped models: no excuse. I shipped a fully assembled Coven Throne with no breakage. Not even the lances. Using just very skillfully applied bubble wrap.
[url]
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Vampire-Counts-Coven-Throne[/url]

Honestly, if the lances broke i don't think anyone could blame anyone, but the point is if you're willing to spend a bit of money to make sure your trade partner is happy, its amazing what you can pull off.


So... yeah. I'd be unhappy about the deffkoptas and battle wagon. Particularly if you were looking to profit-flip these models, as you'll now have to market them as repaired and rehab'd (at least, you should / better ... if you don't that is risky pissing off a trader for lack of full disclosure... a topic for another thread though, lol).


But... that's just me. A "good honest attempt" is all well and nice, but I like good packaging in my trades, and i expect it.

Thanks Haight,

I currently plan on using the Battlewagon and Warbikers, but I was considering trading Stormboyz (in favor of newer models) and probably some of the Deffkoptas) not sure how many I should keep for my own personal use--or how useful they are..
However, since this trade cost each part between $17-$30 in shipping, I don't think asking for a tradeback is reasonable. I certainly want to keep the Orks as well. I was thinking of asking for a small amount for compensation via Paypal?

I guess the real questions here are

1. How hard is it to reglue the damaged items (mainly Battlwagon, Deffkopta, Stormboyz) and make them appear relatively "undamaged", and how well will they hold together?
2. How much will it decrease their value if and when I decide to sell them?

All valid questions, and show you're a reasonable trade partner. Kudos.

Frankly, only you can answer these questions. The damage maybe isn't as bad as it looks from one still picture.

I probably come off a lot more hard assed than i really am. If i'm not happy with a trade partner, i LEGIT want to work it out, and if i can fix something, i will do so. The only time i get bent is if the packing is obviously negligent.


So in the end only you can figure out what you're cool with and if you do think some recompense is in order or you're unhappy with something, then what is fair. Of course, your trade partner can also say "Nope, i don't want to do recompense, i'll ship you back your stuff, you ship me back mine." That's a valid response and remedy to the situation too.


In any event, good luck. The whole point of the second hand market is that hopefully we all end up happy with our end of the bargain.