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Hey I'm just returning to 40k and I've decided to try out the green tide formation. Reading around dakka, I'm seeing a few people mention that GT gives FNP to everybody. I'm pretty rusty with 40k rules but I can't seem to figure out how GT gives FNP. Can somebody explain this to me?

When you add in a Painboy they all get FNP. People view it as an autoomclude because 50 points for FNP on 100 orks is a steal

What gives it all a 4+ inv. I played a guy who said that his mek gave them all.

 Waaagh 18 wrote:
When you add in a Painboy they all get FNP. People view it as an autoomclude because 50 points for FNP on 100 orks is a steal

ah I see. So you take another detachment, like an allied detachment, with an HQ painboy? Sorry, this whole formation/detachment thing is really making my head spin.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
What gives it all a 4+ inv. I played a guy who said that his mek gave them all.

The KFF. Could be a 5+ now I'm not too familiar with Orks but it was a 4+ at one point I believe and then a cover too I think.

 n0t_u wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
What gives it all a 4+ inv. I played a guy who said that his mek gave them all.

The KFF. Could be a 5+ now I'm not too familiar with Orks but it was a 4+ at one point I believe and then a cover too I think.

But the KFF only gives a 5+ invul to models within 6". Unless you have all 101 orks within 6", I don't think this is it.

 ArmageddonBorn wrote:

 n0t_u wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
What gives it all a 4+ inv. I played a guy who said that his mek gave them all.

The KFF. Could be a 5+ now I'm not too familiar with Orks but it was a 4+ at one point I believe and then a cover too I think.

But the KFF only gives a 5+ invul to models within 6". Unless you have all 101 orks within 6", I don't think this is it.

I want to see 100 orks within 6" of a painboy.

 Mulletdude wrote:

 ArmageddonBorn wrote:

 n0t_u wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
What gives it all a 4+ inv. I played a guy who said that his mek gave them all.

The KFF. Could be a 5+ now I'm not too familiar with Orks but it was a 4+ at one point I believe and then a cover too I think.

But the KFF only gives a 5+ invul to models within 6". Unless you have all 101 orks within 6", I don't think this is it.

I want to see 100 orks within 6" of a painboy.

Painboy gives it to the full squad. KFF only within 6"

Yes you take a greentide detachment with a bunch of nobs w pks and a warlord w big boss pole for army wide fearless, can even make 1-2 Squads eavy armour to soak up things like wyverns from doing any major damage.

Then add another detachment such as a cad with a painboy hq and or big Mek w kff. The painboy gives the entire unit fnp 5+ the big Mek gives all Orks within 6in 5++ however the idea is to place the big Mek w kff right behind the front line of Orks so when people shoot at the greentide it hits the closest target. Unless you are dealing w blast weapons you can keep funneling Orks into that 12in diameter in the front line. Of course there is several other useful upgrades for a greentide from the hq section such as weirdboy for deny the witch and potential useful powers, a cad warboss with lucky stick for +1 ws to the entire greentide and the fact you might want some useful support for the green tide. So it's a balancing act of points and personal taste.

There's a megaforcefield relic in Ghazzy detachment that is 4++. But both KFF and MFF only affect models within 6' - not squads. Now it's possible to position the guyz and MFF mek the way that they can soak up fire from one direction, it's still pretty hard to make worth 75 points for the relic.

People often bring an allied detachment with just painboss for fnp and a boss/mek with DLS to make the horde ws5. While KFF/MFF might be useful, they're situational and are quite expensive. Considering, you still need decent support for the greentide to work.

Thanks for the great suggestions! I can feel the Waaagh!!! lol.

Any suggestions for a pain boy vs Mad Dok Grotsnik? MDG gives fearless in addition to FNP. That seems like a pretty good thing considering the Ork's low morale.

It's situational once again.

Grotsnik costs 160 pt but has t5 and 3 wounds - harder to barrage out.
Painboss + Big Bosspole on your warboss cost 70 pt. That's the whole 90 pt cheaper than Grotsnik. However, Grotsnik has a PK - let's also count it in even though it has some stuff going against him as you'll need PK in a right place - means you can't dedicate him to purely hiding.

Grotsnik is basically 65 pt for more durability. Worth it or not? Don't know. It's situational. Personally, i think you should keep your greentide as cheap - effective as possible. Means:
BBP + HA Warboss without other gear whatsoever - he'll be a rare sight on the front cause you do want to keep him away from challenges and stomps
Painboy
Warboss/Mek with DLS. Warboss with s10 is always handy while Big mek with a Killsaw is great vs tougher vehicles like Imperial Knights you're inevitebly facing in every second game. Mek can take a KFF but it's situational too. Depends on meta. If it's heavy on big gunz and stuff like wave serpents - worth it imo.
5-6 nobz with PK

That's it. You could add in a wierdboy if your meta is psycher heavy. He helps a lot in this cases. Cause you want to get as much chances to deny invisibility or maledictions as possible. And this point difference between Grotsnik and Painboss nets you a wierdboy. Though, you'll have to get 3-d troops. Not that it's bad - just extra points.

 ArmageddonBorn wrote:
ah I see. So you take another detachment, like an allied detachment, with an HQ painboy? Sorry, this whole formation/detachment thing is really making my head spin.

Yes, another Detachment is needed.

But it's unlikely to be an Allied Detachment. Those have a restriction, that they must be chosen from a different Faction (Codex) from your Primary Detachment (the one with your Warlord).

Since the Warboss is most likely going to be the Warboss in the Tide (for unlimited Waaagh!), you won't be able to take an allied Detachment of Orks.

Take a Combined Arms Detachment (CAD) from the Rulebook, or one of the Ork specific Detachments from the Codex/Supplement.

hmm I was mainly considering Grotsnik because he gave Fearless with "One Scalpel Short of a Medpack". Is that not worth it?

 ArmageddonBorn wrote:
hmm I was mainly considering Grotsnik because he gave Fearless with "One Scalpel Short of a Medpack". Is that not worth it?

The Warboss that comes with the Green Tide can be given the "Big Boss Pole" which also grants Fearless, then add a regular pain boy.

Grotsnik is tougher with better powerklaw attacks, but costs more.

Both are valid options, depends which suits you better.

 grendel083 wrote:
The Warboss that comes with the Green Tide can be given the "Big Boss Pole" which also grants Fearless

ahh I see, I think this is also what koooaeiMade was implying. Thanks for explaining this to me. If the warboss can confer fearless then you're right, Grotsnik might be a bit overpriced.

Is there any benefit to running two painboys, in case one dies? Or is a Big mek w/ kff a better choice?

Big mek is mostly there for a killsaw. It's really good at dealing with knights.

Big mek would also be there if given a kff to stand behind the first few ranks to confer a 5++ to them. 4+ 5++ 5+++ with from line ard boyz, painboy, big Mek kff combo. Another option is a weird boy attempting to get the psychic power that allows you to deepstrike the entire green tide. Then the problem is not mishapping

You won't fit many under the KFF bubble, but you can keep the important characters under it, helps with Sniping and Barrrage. Lucky Stikk is also an option here, giving the entire Tide +1Ws so they hit most things on 3's in combat.

You want to keep the Warboss safe, as he gives the Waaagh! each turn, which the Tide needs as it's very slow otherwise. He really needs to be kept back, as the Formation rules means he must issue/accept challenges.

Painboy obviously needs to be kept safe and out of harms way

As Koooaei mentions, kill saws are great. If you don't want to stick one on a Big Mek, they are also an option for little Meks as well.

Another choice, is you can give 1/10 of the Mobs 'Eavy Armour, and have those boys at the front. Might soak up some of the damage.

You can really go to town tooling up a Tide, or play it cheap. There's lots of options.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Another option is a weird boy attempting to get the psychic power that allows you to deepstrike the entire green tide. Then the problem is not mishapping

Would be funny to see
Problem then is anything with a Blast or Template. Even a 6" run will not space a Tide out much.
Warpath (+1 Attack) would be a great power. Or Iron Arm if you want to risk Santic.

That's actually quite interesting who'd be more damaging vs a knight - boss or mek.
I think that it's pretty comparable when you get charged and mek's a bit ahead when it comes to charging yourself.

 koooaei wrote:
That's actually quite interesting who'd be more damaging vs a knight - boss or mek.
I think that it's pretty comparable when you get charged and mek's a bit ahead when it comes to charging yourself.

Hmmm... It is interesting. Is that Big Mek or Mek? It's the difference between S8/9 and S6/7

The Boss has the Weapon Skill advantage, so will be hitting a Knight on 3's and has more attacks.
The Mek will be hitting on 4's, less Attacks, but has a better chance of getting a Pen with each hit (I'd say the little Mek has about the same chance of scoring a Pen as the Warboss, but will hit less so the Warboss is ahead. Big Mek has the best chance of getting a Pen, but again less attacks and less chance of hitting still).

If you can squeeze a Lucky Stikk in there, the Mek's (both Big and Little) gain a huge boost against Knights, now hitting on 3's.


Edit: One most Ork players have read, but THIS epic thread showed the Tide is very effective against Knights. It's a must read for anyone taking a Tide.

I'm talking about a big mek. And we assume that the tide's with DLS cause both meks and bosses can take it.

Making everyone hit on 5.

I've got difficulties with counting 2d6 pen/glance chances

When you get charged and you have a base number of attacks (no warpath):
For warboss it's around 3.55 hits with dls and 1/2 to pen, 1/6 glances - 1.77 pens, 0.59 glances
For big mek it's around 2.66 hits with dls and...0.72 to pen and 0.11 to glance - 1.92 pens, 0.29 glances

Big mek goes a bit ahead when he charges.

Note that my 2d6 math can be off =)

Little meks have less chances to strike cause they can get stomped to death due to 1 wound. But let's assume they've passed fnp or the knight didn't wound:
1.33 hits with WS5, 0.58 to pen, 0.14 to glance - 0.77 pens, 0.18 glances

Compare to a regular pk nob:
2 hits with WS5, 1/6 to pen, 1/6 to glance - 0.33 pens, 0.33 glances

They're basically the same cost. And imo regular pk nobz are more useful due to 2 wounds and 3 base attacks, 8 native str which is used more often than just dealing with IK which they're not much worse at killing than killsaw meks. Yep, landraiders are a different story. On the other hand, you don't really want to explode a landraider. The explosion is gona kill more boyz than it's weaponry and th/ss termies combined

Looks pretty even between the Boss and Big Mek (as there isn't a huge difference between a pen and glance on a Superheavy, unless you're lucky).

I think the Lucky Stikk is the big equaliser here, the Boss is already hitting on 3's so gains no benefit, but it really helps the Mek.

Just a side note, the Tides Warboss can't take the Stikk, due to supplement rules, so it will likely be Big Mek taking it. Which also means he might have the odd re-roll to hit

Did count it in for both cases

I'm just comparing a dls warboss and dls big mek as i'm keeping the warlord tide warboss as far away from stomps as possible

 koooaei wrote:
Did count it in for both cases

I'm just comparing a dls warboss and dls big mek as i'm keeping the warlord tide warboss as far away from stomps as possible

That's true! Keep that Tide Boss safe.

Also remember the Stikk Bearer will get the odd re-roll to hit. But I wouldn't try adding that to the Math...

No one likes an exploding Land Raider! Of course and Exploding Knight that scatters into the Tide is a nightmare.
My FLGC is in the middle of our annual 40k tournament (2k 8 week long knock-out), where my Orks went up against a Reaver Titan. Tank Bustas took it out in combat, but the damn thing fell on my Boyz, killing around 20 and 2 Trukks

Well, i've counted hits with rerolls. 3.55 for warboss. Without rerolls it's just 2.66. And 2 instead of 2.66 for big mek. What else to use a reroll for in a greentide? Not that you're gona take armor saves or something

Just a quick list at 1850 points is green tide with war boss in eavy armor, big bosspole, and power klaw, 10 boyz per squad, 2 squads with eavy armor, 2 squads w/ nob w/ power klaw bosspole. CAD w/ painboy w/ bosspole, big mek w/ da lucky stick, bosspole, and kff, 2 min squad gretchin, stompa. Comes to 1845.

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
...2 min squad gretchin, stompa. Comes to 1845.

Ha!
That really made me laugh, it was almost a subtle small print stompa (no one will notice). Tide and STOMPA, that's sweet

Boss Poles aren't really needed on your characters. The Tide is Fearless, and even if the Boss dies, the unit will never run until they get to less than 10 boys (due to the Formations rule, giving +2 to mob checks. Boss poles aren't really needed in Ghazghkull supplement units).

Well you don't have to use it just a quick somewhat competetive list. Really makes your opponent have to choose what to target.

The only problem i see is maelstorm missions. You have big chances to loose on points against msu.