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Ok guys, it's time for a group project :-D

I would love the forums help to revive the Iron Warrios as a playable Chaos Legion.. The problem is that I have lost all my old codices, so I don't have the old special rules available anymore.. Is it allowed to post old and no longer rules in here.? If it is, please help me along and list the old rules, so that we can perhaps discuss them and see if we can find fair updates for them.. That way, maybe in the end we can end up with a house rule set :-D

Well I'm about to write an Iron Warriors codex but for another system, but I have some ideas which I would like to throw in. An idea is that they don't have Cultists in their armies. They aren't the strongest believers themselves so they probably wouldn't attract them in such ways. I'll give them Slaves instead which should be even weaker and/or probably without ranged weapons. I thought about having them wearing several belts of Frag Grenades and a rule which makes them blow up randomly throughout the battle like Frag Grenades.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ah... Remove the random part, so the Iron Warriors player can actually use them for something. Make some or all upgradable to Krak greandes as I think the close combat attacks will probably hurt the enemy more than the Frag Grenades.

Sounds a bit like "living bombs" :-) a 1 use attack which of course takes out the attacking model too

Just play 30k IW. Boom done, 10x the units to pick from and none of the stupid dinobots.

I think the easiest way to do it would be a deatchment or some sort of special formation mix. I'll leave the special formation mix to people who know better then I do, but here is how I'd run a detachment.

Iron Warriors Seige Detachment:

Minimum: 1 HQ, 1 Troop, 1 Heavy Support.

Optional: 1 HQ 5 Troops, 3 Elites, 3 Heavy Support, 1 Fast attack, 1 Lord of War, 1 Fortification.

Special: Oblitorator and Havok squads in this detachment have the tank hunter special rule and add 1 to the result when rolling on the building damage table

Maybe something to upgrade Cultists to Janissaries?

@Brian, where is that info from :-D

BrianDavion wrote:
I think the easiest way to do it would be a deatchment or some sort of special formation mix. I'll leave the special formation mix to people who know better then I do, but here is how I'd run a detachment.

Iron Warriors Seige Detachment:

Minimum: 1 HQ, 1 Troop, 1 Heavy Support.

Optional: 1 HQ 5 Troops, 3 Elites, 3 Heavy Support, 1 Fast attack, 1 Lord of War, 1 Fortification.

Special: Oblitorator and Havok squads in this detachment have the tank hunter special rule and add 1 to the result when rolling on the building damage table

I started on a fandex based on the detachment concept (so as not to need a full codex update from GW). Here's what I've got for the Iron Warriors (note that they keep Objective secured, but lose the warlord trait reroll):

Iron Warriors Primary Detachment:
Force Org Chart: 2 extra elites choices, 2 extra heavy support choices, 4 Troop Choices, no fast attack choices, 2 Fortifications
Special:
Cybernetics: Every unit in the army has FnP (6+), or improves their existing FnP by 1. Chaos Space Marine squads can take a Servo-Arm instead of powerfists, but cannot take Marks.
Cult of Destruction: Every model with fleshmetal (such as Warpsmiths or Mutilators) has +1 WS and +1 BS.
Dark Magi: Every model that can buy Teminator armor can buy Fleshmetal for the same cost, and Chaos Lords from this detachments can buy the Master of Mechanisms special rule for 20pts. Furthermore, all Warpsmiths from this detachments have +1 Wound.
Distrusted: Iron Warriors cannot take cult troops (and all marks are at twice their listed cost), and they treat Chaos Daemons as Allies of Convenience. Iron Warriors cannot take any unique characters with a Mark of Chaos or who are Daemons of a specific Chaos God, unless they are explicitly stated to be Iron Warriors.
Eternal superiority: Cannot take cultists.

Iron Warriors Allied Detachment:
Force Org Chart: 1 extra elites choice, 1 extra heavy support choices, 1 Troop Choice, no fast attack choices, 1 Fortification
Special:
Cybernetics: Every unit in the army has FnP (6+), or improves their existing FnP by 1. Chaos Space Marine squads can take a Servo-Arm instead of powerfists, but cannot take Marks.
Cult of Destruction: Every model with fleshmetal (such as Warpsmiths or Mutilators) has +1 WS and +1 BS.
Dark Magi: Every model that can buy Teminator armor can buy Fleshmetal for the same cost, and Chaos Lords from this detachments can buy the Master of Mechanisms special rule for 20pts. Furthermore, all Warpsmiths from this detachments have +1 Wound.
Distrusted: Iron Warriors cannot take cult troops (and all marks are at twice their listed cost), and they treat Chaos Daemons as Allies of Convenience. Iron Warriors cannot take any unique characters with a Mark of Chaos or who are Daemons of a specific Chaos God, unless they are explicitly stated to be Iron Warriors.
Eternal superiority: Cannot take cultists.


Any ideas? Is this OP/horrible/unfluffy? Should I stop them rolling from the BrB warlord trait tables or something for balance?

daemons bane wrote:
@Brian, where is that info from :-D

That's ideas I've generated on my own while using what GW's given us as a guide. an extra elite slot in the nemisis strike force seems to sacrifice a fast attack and a heavy support slot, so I figured I'd use that "rate of exchange" (I tend to err on the side of caution with my balance. it's easier to buff then nerf ) the special ability is of course taken right from Imperial fists chapter tactics. I figured the Iron Warriors needed some sort of special seige ability why make my own up when I can borrow an excellent one GW's already written for us, and most detachments seem to sacrifice objective secured for it. I felt it seemed reasonably balanced. I did forget the standard "re-roll warlord traits" though, that'd be there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Talon of Anathrax wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I think the easiest way to do it would be a deatchment or some sort of special formation mix. I'll leave the special formation mix to people who know better then I do, but here is how I'd run a detachment.

Iron Warriors Seige Detachment:

Minimum: 1 HQ, 1 Troop, 1 Heavy Support.

Optional: 1 HQ 5 Troops, 3 Elites, 3 Heavy Support, 1 Fast attack, 1 Lord of War, 1 Fortification.

Special: Oblitorator and Havok squads in this detachment have the tank hunter special rule and add 1 to the result when rolling on the building damage table

I started on a fandex based on the detachment concept (so as not to need a full codex update from GW). Here's what I've got for the Iron Warriors (note that they keep Objective secured, but lose the warlord trait reroll):

Iron Warriors Primary Detachment:
Force Org Chart: 2 extra elites choices, 2 extra heavy support choices, 4 Troop Choices, no fast attack choices, 2 Fortifications
Special:
Cybernetics: Every unit in the army has FnP (6+), or improves their existing FnP by 1. Chaos Space Marine squads can take a Servo-Arm instead of powerfists, but cannot take Marks.
Cult of Destruction: Every model with fleshmetal (such as Warpsmiths or Mutilators) has +1 WS and +1 BS.
Dark Magi: Every model that can buy Teminator armor can buy Fleshmetal for the same cost, and Chaos Lords from this detachments can buy the Master of Mechanisms special rule for 20pts. Furthermore, all Warpsmiths from this detachments have +1 Wound.
Distrusted: Iron Warriors cannot take cult troops (and all marks are at twice their listed cost), and they treat Chaos Daemons as Allies of Convenience. Iron Warriors cannot take any unique characters with a Mark of Chaos or who are Daemons of a specific Chaos God, unless they are explicitly stated to be Iron Warriors.
Eternal superiority: Cannot take cultists.

Iron Warriors Allied Detachment:
Force Org Chart: 1 extra elites choice, 1 extra heavy support choices, 1 Troop Choice, no fast attack choices, 1 Fortification
Special:
Cybernetics: Every unit in the army has FnP (6+), or improves their existing FnP by 1. Chaos Space Marine squads can take a Servo-Arm instead of powerfists, but cannot take Marks.
Cult of Destruction: Every model with fleshmetal (such as Warpsmiths or Mutilators) has +1 WS and +1 BS.
Dark Magi: Every model that can buy Teminator armor can buy Fleshmetal for the same cost, and Chaos Lords from this detachments can buy the Master of Mechanisms special rule for 20pts. Furthermore, all Warpsmiths from this detachments have +1 Wound.
Distrusted: Iron Warriors cannot take cult troops (and all marks are at twice their listed cost), and they treat Chaos Daemons as Allies of Convenience. Iron Warriors cannot take any unique characters with a Mark of Chaos or who are Daemons of a specific Chaos God, unless they are explicitly stated to be Iron Warriors.
Eternal superiority: Cannot take cultists.


Any ideas? Is this OP/horrible/unfluffy? Should I stop them rolling from the BrB warlord trait tables or something for balance?

Seems a little over powered compared to a lot of other detachments and unnesscarily restrictive, there's no reason to forbid the use of cultists given the Iron warriors are notorious for using slave warriors, of which cultists would make an EXCELLENT representivie, also there is no reason to deny them cultist troops, as the legion warbands tend to be splintered and I could totally see a "nurgalite iron warriors warband" and we have actual evidance of Khornite Bezerker Iron Warriors as seen in the novel "storm of iron" (when designing a detachment I'd advise against being too restrictive, otherwise you might as well just go with a formation. you wanna capture the essential feel while leaving room for people's imagination and creativity) some of your ideas might actually work best in a series of formations similer to what the Necrons are getting. I could take a crack at something similer...

BrianDavion wrote:

daemons bane wrote:
@Brian, where is that info from :-D

That's ideas I've generated on my own while using what GW's given us as a guide. an extra elite slot in the nemisis strike force seems to sacrifice a fast attack and a heavy support slot, so I figured I'd use that "rate of exchange" (I tend to err on the side of caution with my balance. it's easier to buff then nerf ) the special ability is of course taken right from Imperial fists chapter tactics. I figured the Iron Warriors needed some sort of special seige ability why make my own up when I can borrow an excellent one GW's already written for us, and most detachments seem to sacrifice objective secured for it. I felt it seemed reasonably balanced. I did forget the standard "re-roll warlord traits" though, that'd be there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Talon of Anathrax wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I think the easiest way to do it would be a deatchment or some sort of special formation mix. I'll leave the special formation mix to people who know better then I do, but here is how I'd run a detachment.

Iron Warriors Seige Detachment:

Minimum: 1 HQ, 1 Troop, 1 Heavy Support.

Optional: 1 HQ 5 Troops, 3 Elites, 3 Heavy Support, 1 Fast attack, 1 Lord of War, 1 Fortification.

Special: Oblitorator and Havok squads in this detachment have the tank hunter special rule and add 1 to the result when rolling on the building damage table

I started on a fandex based on the detachment concept (so as not to need a full codex update from GW). Here's what I've got for the Iron Warriors (note that they keep Objective secured, but lose the warlord trait reroll):

Iron Warriors Primary Detachment:
Force Org Chart: 1 extra elites choice, 2 extra heavy support choices, 4 Troop Choices, no fast attack choices, 2 Fortifications
Special:
Cybernetics: Every unit in the army has FnP (6+), or improves their existing FnP by 1. Chaos Space Marine squads can take a Servo-Arm instead of powerfists, but cannot take Marks.
Cult of Destruction: Every model with fleshmetal (such as Warpsmiths or Mutilators) has +1 WS and +1 BS.
Dark Magi: Every model that can buy Teminator armor can buy Fleshmetal for the same cost, and Chaos Lords from this detachments can buy the Master of Mechanisms special rule for 20pts. Furthermore, all Warpsmiths from this detachments have +1 Wound.
Distrusted: Iron Warriors cannot take cult troops as troop choices (and all marks are at twice their listed cost), and they treat Chaos Daemons as Allies of Convenience. Iron Warriors cannot take any unique characters with a Mark of Chaos or who are Daemons of a specific Chaos God, unless they are explicitly stated to be Iron Warriors.
Eternal superiority: Cannot take cultists.

Iron Warriors Allied Detachment:
Force Org Chart: 1 extra heavy support choices, 1 Troop Choice, no fast attack choices, 1 Fortification
Special:
Cybernetics: Every unit in the army has FnP (6+), or improves their existing FnP by 1. Chaos Space Marine squads can take a Servo-Arm instead of powerfists, but cannot take Marks.
Cult of Destruction: Every model with fleshmetal (such as Warpsmiths or Mutilators) has +1 WS and +1 BS.
Dark Magi: Every model that can buy Teminator armor can buy Fleshmetal for the same cost, and Chaos Lords from this detachments can buy the Master of Mechanisms special rule for 20pts. Furthermore, all Warpsmiths from this detachments have +1 Wound.
Distrusted: Iron Warriors cannot take cult troops as troop choices (and all marks are at twice their listed cost), and they treat Chaos Daemons as Allies of Convenience. Iron Warriors cannot take any unique characters with a Mark of Chaos or who are Daemons of a specific Chaos God, unless they are explicitly stated to be Iron Warriors.
Eternal superiority: Cannot take cultists.


Any ideas? Is this OP/horrible/unfluffy? Should I stop them rolling from the BrB warlord trait tables or something for balance?

Seems a little over powered compared to a lot of other detachments and unnesscarily restrictive, there's no reason to forbid the use of cultists given the Iron warriors are notorious for using slave warriors, of which cultists would make an EXCELLENT representivie, also there is no reason to deny them cultist troops, as the legion warbands tend to be splintered and I could totally see a "nurgalite iron warriors warband" and we have actual evidance of Khornite Bezerker Iron Warriors as seen in the novel "storm of iron" (when designing a detachment I'd advise against being too restrictive, otherwise you might as well just go with a formation. you wanna capture the essential feel while leaving room for people's imagination and creativity) some of your ideas might actually work best in a series of formations similer to what the Necrons are getting. I could take a crack at something similer...

Oh, that's a typo
I meant to write that they can't take cult troops as troops, to avoid too much min-maxing (this is a way to nerf them a bit: you can still play cult units in your warband, you just can't give the Objective Secured). I'll stick to your rate of exchange idea: what do you think of this edited version?

The idea is to make Iron warriors focus on strong, destructive units and fortified positions, so I'm trying to reduce the amout of troops and MSU tactics they can use. Anyway, if you want slave warriors, use the IA:13 renegades: their random morale suddenly becomes very logical.
The buffs they get are conterbalanced by the fact that they lose most of their fast attack units, cultists and objective secured Plague Marines which are some of the best units in the Codex.

Any more criticisms / ideas?

Iron Garrison

0-1 HQ
1 Troops
1-6 Fortifications

Special: Unmanned emplaced weapons that fire automatically do so at Ballistic Skill 3 and may target any enemy unit within range and line of sight, not just the nearest.

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
Iron Garrison

0-1 HQ
1 Troops
1-6 Fortifications

Special: Unmanned emplaced weapons that fire automatically do so at Ballistic Skill 3 and may target any enemy unit within range and line of sight, not just the nearest.

I'm stealing that for my Fandex But wouldn't it be better as a standalone detachment like this:

Iron Warriors Iron garrison Primary Detachment:
Force Org Chart: 0-2 HQ, no fast attack choices, 6 Fortifications
Special:
Cybernetics: Every unit in the army has FnP (6+), or improves their existing FnP by 1. Chaos Space Marine squads can take a Servo-Arm instead of powerfists, but cannot take Marks.
Cult of Destruction: Every model with fleshmetal (such as Warpsmiths or Mutilators) has +1 WS and +1 BS.
Dark Magi: Every model that can buy Teminator armor can buy Fleshmetal for the same cost, and Chaos Lords from this detachments can buy the Master of Mechanisms special rule for 20pts. Furthermore, all Warpsmiths from this detachments have +1 Wound.
Distrusted: Iron Warriors cannot take cult troops as troop choices (and all marks are at twice their listed cost), and they treat Chaos Daemons as Allies of Convenience. Iron Warriors cannot take any unique characters with a Mark of Chaos or who are Daemons of a specific Chaos God, unless they are explicitly stated to be Iron Warriors.
Special: Unmanned emplaced weapons that fire automatically do so at Ballistic Skill 3 and may target any enemy unit within range and line of sight, not just the nearest.

As a mix of both our things, where they gain cultists and fortification bonuses, but they lose their extra force org slots.