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Hi guys,
Recently my wife said that she's kinda not digging 40k because of the larger scale and found it a little overwhelming. Are there any games similar to 40k but on a smaller scale?

Scale as in "size of the miniatures"? Scale as in "number of miniatures"?

If you want fewer minis, battles with "space-marine-sized" infantry shooting at each other - Infinity, MERCS, Deadzone (semi-board-gamey), etc..

If you want smaller minis, battles wtih "tanks, planes, etc.." - Dropzone Commander, Spartan Games stuff.

If you want both.... well, there really is only 40K.

What specifically do you mean by "similar to 40k"? There are a lot of games around the same scale, but they aren't grimdark war torn sci-fi with Space Marines.

I'd say Kill Team. The same models as 40K but smaller.

You mean like 2nd edition?

You are not contrained by any stipulations of size in any system. Your book your rules.

Personally I think that 40k plays best at 1000-1500 points, I have played allot of good 750 point games too.

True it means all the big toys aren't on the table at once, but a decent basic force and the odd headliner unit return play back to a tactical game with plenty of space for manoeuvre.

Also the number of specialist rules is greatly reduced speeding up play.

I mean nothing can be more like 40k than 40k.

Of course there's also Necromunda. Super game that one.

Try Yhatzee. It's a nice game like 40k with the same strategic depth (roll dice, reroll dice, etc) and the same amount of fun. You don't even have to use miniatures!

Although, you can. You could put any amount of miniatures in front of one another and play a few games of Yhatzee.

Wonderwolf wrote:If you want both.... well, there really is only 40K.

WayneTheGame wrote:There are a lot of games around the same scale, but they aren't grimdark war torn sci-fi with Space Marines.

notprop wrote:I mean nothing can be more like 40k than 40k.

Or you could ignore all those other OUR RULES OUR MINIS games, buy something like Victory Decision: Future Combat or Rogue Planet, and slot your very same little platoon or squad of grimdark Space Marines or whatever right into those handy customisable army lists and profile creation rules.

I'm assuming that by "scale" you mean "scope". i.e. less figures per person. I'll make a few suggestions for games that have a similar "feel" to 40k, but with a smaller scope and less miniatures.

The 2.0 version of Warpath is supposed to be around Platoon sized which is considerably smaller than current 40k games. It's free from the Mantic website.

Also, I'm a big fan of the WarEngine (Version 2.1 or so) Ruleset. It's solidly platoon sized though it only handles light vehicles. you can get it for free from the Warengine yahoo group.
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/WarEngine/info

Both these games have a 40k'ish feel in that they are a bit gonzo and definitely sci-fantasy, haveing a balance between ranged and melee combat that is very smilar to 40k. However both rulesets are much simpler having far fewer special rules. Both rulesets are well suited for use with 40k figures. Warpath having 4 warband lists that proxy well for most 40k forces. WarEngine has 40k lists and has a unit creation mechanic for making your own stats.

 wikkedj wrote:
Hi guys,
Recently my wife said that she's kinda not digging 40k because of the larger scale and found it a little overwhelming. Are there any games similar to 40k but on a smaller scale?

If you're talking literally the large scale, like 28-32mm plus assorted huge monsters and stompy robots, then I heartily recommend checking out either DropZone Commander (which is a great 10mm scale game, and the starter sets are excellent), or Epic: Armageddon (which is 40k on 6mm scale and is long since out of production, the rules are free and absolutely excellent, the models are hard to find or have to be proxied).

DzC is certainly a fun game and the starter box even comes with enough terrain to play, and Epic: Armageddon is probably one of the best wargames I've ever played and still captures the 40k feel.

Deadzone is pretty awesome as well and you can use your existing minis with new rules.

You can use marines as Enforcers
Orks as Marauders
Nids as Plague
Eldar as Asterians
Guard/Inquisitors as Rebs

I'd recommend Rogue Planet and use your existing miniatures.

http://www.wargamevault.com/product/139359/Rogue-Planet?manufacturers_id=3556

Try 40K Kill Team.

Warmachine
Maliefaux
Infinity

Each has better rules than 40k and for Maliefaux and Infinity, better miniatures.

Depends what you want. I highly recommend Kill Team. It scales down the points and cuts a lot of the bs of big games.

If its the scale or rules, Warmachine, Infinity, and Maliefaux are good seconds.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MWHistorian wrote:
Warmachine
Maliefaux
Infinity

Each has better rules than 40k and for Maliefaux and Infinity, better miniatures.

Rules, definitely. Miniatures? Ehhhh. Miniature design is probably one of 40k's best selling points (design, not actual production). Warmachine looks cool, but they don't seem to have minis that stand out as much as some of the Daemons

I don't know, Infinity's newer sculpts are flat out amazing and I'd say that in terms of design and quality, Maliefaux's plastics do in fact beat GW's.

-

Okay, assuming you mean by "smaller scale" as in quantity of models / complexity?

Necromunda?
Rules here: https://app.box.com/shared/hs3h5bu41a.
This site gives many ideas for playing models: http://gaming.yaktribe.org/community/threads/alternative-miniature-sources-image-heavy.15/
Ebay stuff: http://www.ebay.co.uk/bhp/necromunda
I would suggest this if you have 40k models and like the fluff/story of it all.

Others could probably suggest more recent squad based games but look around, we are experiencing a renascence of the genre.

Actual smaller scale:

15mm "guide" http://dropshiphorizon.blogspot.ca/p/playing-by-rules-guide-to-15mm-rulesets.html
10mm Dropship Commander looks interesting for "character" http://www.hawkwargames.com/collections/resistance
6mm Robotech? Anyone? models are a bit "fun" to assemble but easy rules: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rrpgt/robotech-rpg-tacticstm In stores now!...

Lots out there to choose from so have fun!

I Have enjoyed a few games of 40k Kill Team.
Same setting just fewer miniatures.

http://www.blacklibrary.com/games-workshop-digital-editions/Kill-Team.html

I'm VERY desirous of that Robotech game.

If you are looking for a free Kill team like game, might I suggest In The Emperor's Name:

http://iten-game.org/

Play 40k as it is, but:
Limit your games to 1000 points or less,
Stop yourselves from using big expensive models or units,
Ignore Apoc and Escalation,
Ignore GW's push to make everything as epic as possible.

We often play 600 or 1000 point games at the club I go to, and we're fine. There no big problem with spamming, super-heavies, netlists, or other things that people complain about.

This all assumes you mean scale as the size of the games, not the size of the models.

I am going to throw out an ironically named game that is good for either] smaller minis! or fewer numbered minis (as well as for pulling off larger games.

In the late-70's/early-80's a company by the name of Fantasy Games Unlimited published a game called.... Wait for it....

Space Marine

That was one of the greatest Sci-Fi miniatures games ever made prior to 40K.

In fact, you will recognize a great deal in it, as it is very similar to 40k's progenitor: Laserburn (which itself is pretty identical to first edition 40k... Well, it IS first edition 40k).

MB

Wonderwolf wrote:
Scale as in "size of the miniatures"? Scale as in "number of miniatures"?

If you want fewer minis, battles with "space-marine-sized" infantry shooting at each other - Infinity, MERCS, Deadzone (semi-board-gamey), etc..

If you want smaller minis, battles wtih "tanks, planes, etc.." - Dropzone Commander, Spartan Games stuff.

Ironically, Dropzone Commander fulfils both. A standard size game has less models than your average 1500pt 40k army (probably less for both armies combined than one 40k army), is smaller in model scale.

Rayvon wrote:I Have enjoyed a few games of 40k Kill Team.
Same setting just fewer miniatures.
http://www.blacklibrary.com/games-workshop-digital-editions/Kill-Team.html

It just hurts to spend $11 when it was thrown in as an option in the big rule book in prior editions.

MWHistorian wrote:I'm VERY desirous of that Robotech game.

I am a kickstarter backer, long story short: deal with retail, dealing with Palladium directly: toys with your emotions.
The models for the humans have very good detail but a bit fussy, if you know what you are doing; about 20 minutes assembly per model.
Rules are fairly straightforward, just got a FAQ out so some strange bits have been addressed.
I guess I would not discourage, the box for the game is reasonable for ~$75 dollars I have seen out there.

frozenwastes wrote:If you are looking for a free Kill team like game, might I suggest In The Emperor's Name:
http://iten-game.org/

This, is AWESOME.
Thanks!
It is like "Net Epic Armageddon" (http://www.net-armageddon.org/) did for Epic 40k for Necromunda.
The rules read like Necromunda but seem a little less fussy (love that torrent of fire rule).
This system is badly in need of a "army builder" type list since it sets it's own points cost (some calculated lists made?)
Why do fan-based rules like these seem to excite more than stuff we see recently out of GW?
It is like night and day.

 Talizvar wrote:
It just hurts to spend $11 when it was thrown in as an option in the big rule book in prior editions.

Previous edition 40k rulebooks often go for very cheap on eBay and on used book sites like Abebooks. Even better I bet there are 40k people in your area that have them sitting on a shelf and would let them go for $10 or less.

Why do fan-based rules like these seem to excite more than stuff we see recently out of GW?
It is like night and day.

GW's games are tools to sell models. People making games out of a love for the hobby have gameplay as their top priority. It's easy to outperform even professional game designers when you have "good game" as your priority and they have "push model sales" as theirs.

To be fair, ITEN is written by a professional game designer. The authors did two books for Osprey Publishing's wargame line for a Victorian steam punk version of ITEN called In Her Majesty's Name. Incidentally:

https://inhermajestysname.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/creating-your-own-company-in-ihmn.pdf

If you're going to play In The Emperor's Name (a good idea), I strongly suggest the second edition which is available here:
https://thegamesshed.wordpress.com/2011/07/02/in-the-emperors-name/
It's a very playable game with easy to learn rules, a massive number of Retinue lists and a narrative campaign system.

The third edition which is available here:
http://iten-game.org
Is unfinished. The Retinue list (one of the best things about the rules) has not been updated for the third edition and for some reasonhe weapons list has not been completed (alphabetically, no weapons after the letter "K" have grit modifiers?)

The third edition is still worth looking at if you're willing to DIY some things but unfortunately as of 2013 The development team seems to have lost interest in it. I've raised these issues on their forum and got no help.

If you want a ready to play game, the 2.0 version is the way to go.

I get them not wanting to spend time working on a game that can never truly be "theirs" compared to time spent working on supplements for In Her Majesty's Name.

 frozenwastes wrote:
I get them not wanting to spend time working on a game that can never truly be "theirs" compared to time spent working on supplements for In Her Majesty's Name.

Possibly. From what I've read, Craig (the original writer and writer for IHMN) turned the entire project over to a community group. It was that group that put out the 3rd edition and a buggy online unit builder and then promptly dropped it. I can understand a group losing interest, but the fact that they put out a clearly unfinished weapons list as "official" and never released the updated retinue lists rubs me the wrong way. If they'd put the effort required for a website and retinue builder into just finishing the retinue list and weapons list, we'd have a great looking game on our hands. But they didn't and we don't.

Still, I do like the rules and I want others to like them too, so whenever I see ITEN mentioned, I try to point folks toward the complete ruleset that will give them the most fun with the least amount of DIY and confusion, that being 2.0.

 Byte wrote:
Try 40K Kill Team.

Treat yourself to a zone mortalis board, or make one and play some kill team. Most fun game out there, in my opinion.