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As some of you all may have seen in the past I am very open about my builds for events. I figure the more you know about my list now the smoother the game will be later. In addition, I am not really into all that cloak and dagger hidden list . You will not lose a game to me because you didn't know what something did (I.E. i will remind you about Coteaz special ability before your deep strike etc...). I believe in out playing my opponent not tricking them. On that note I do have an issue. I am not sure if its me over analyzing the format and the various builds or if it is my wife rubbing off her ability to be indecisive. Either way I need your alls help picking the list to run. You help me decide on a list and in a way I become your shield bearer as I represent the army you chose on the field of battle. Win Win right? Alright gents here are the various builds I have generated to date:

Yes some of them will make your head tilt. I have a keen ability for seeing what others cannot in certain builds. You see blatant weakness, in some cases that is the intent.


First we have the Praetorian Guard Stepping up for their second gt appearance. Their last appearance had me go 5-1 at the Bugeater GT.

AM BUILD #1

1850 Pts - Codex: Astra Militarum Roster

Total Roster Cost: 1850

HQ:

1 Ministorum Priest
1 Commissar Yarrick
1 Inquisitor Coteaz (HQ) [Inq],
1 Primaris Psyker,

1 Culexus Assassin (Elite)

Troops:
10 Vets (3x melta; demo vets)

Infantry Platoon
3x inf squads with Las cannon (2x melta bomb SGT's)
35 Conscripts

Heavy Support:
1 Manticore (Alternate missiles)
2x Wyverns

Lord of War:
1 Stormsword (1 set of lascannon sponsons) (S10 AP1 apoc blast with ignores cover is a little scarier then the Strength D)

Fortification:
1 Void Shield Generator (2 extra shields)

[b]Details: The void keeps me safe and the conscripts help bubble wrap my line to work as a buffer. With the change to wraiths this list can leave me a little susceptible to wraith spam. The Stormsword will help but I could see my list struggling in a game vs necrons. In addition, I have a serious issue with handling flyers. That is why Build#2 might be to your liking. Coteaz is most likely taking divination while the primaris is a suicide summoning caddy. [/b]


Next up are the Necrons(Ugly Misfits). I had a perfect record(13-1) with my Necrons in GT play until Matt Root finally took them down with his own necrons in the finals of the Frozen North GT. I used to run my crons with csm but times change. Here is my current builds:

NECRON BUILD #1:



NECRONS BUILD #2:

Just got a game in with The Ugly Misfits (Gauss Overload) I.E. List #1 for necrons.

The game was maelstrom against horde dark eldar.

Pro's:
-Wraiths tarpitted his nasty Talos engines that were coming up the center for the game but they were slowely winning the battle(the 4+ RP for them carried its weight).
-The Ghost Arks were amazing as they can pump out 20 shots at range and 30 within 12".
-Zahn is no joke in combat as he has a 2+ 4++ 4+++ with the ability to re-roll 1's on the RP, also his ability to pick warlord traits paid off as well.
-Tomb Blades preformed expertly, pretty much killed whatever they targeted. Having a unit that can move 37-42" in a turn is pretty amazing.

Con's:
-Not as durable as expected. Sure Necrons are crazy durable but if you spend all your points on elite units and have a couple of bad rolls then it can really take you down. Had one unit of blades roll horrendously on saves throughout the game and it was my only unit lost. Though both of the other units of blades were heavily chopped up as well.
-No objective secured was felt as my opponent moved up to claim benefits on objs and still shoot me up. He was also able to score them as I could not contest.
-I could use a little bit of higher strength shooting.. trying to think of a way to get a Tesla destructor or something with higher strength shooting in the list without breaking the build.
-Finally the necrons are still vulnerable in assault. The best way to take them out is to assault them and sweep them.

Id like to see your dark angel build..............

 namiel wrote:
Id like to see your dark angel build..............

I have dark angels but it is a deathwing build and the current meta has that list getting destroyed whether it be from swarms, lots of dakka, or even units that are better at assaulting.. . I hope deathwing makes a comeback as my guys are sitting on the shelf collecting dust atm.

How about Necron list n1 with remove some TB and add Destroyer cult (or a judicator batallion) ?

About Nemsor Z what warlord Trait do you think are the more usefull ?

(on top of that how would you deal with Tau's Missile Side spam + Riptide or with a Serpent Spam + WraithKnight ?

I think your am build 1 is the most competitive of the 4. That strength 10 ap1 ignores cover is dirty.

However I have a short spot in my heart for my first army necrons, so I voted for Necron list 1. The only thing I would say is would you consider fitting some heavy destroyers in there? I mean I know you don't exactly have the points to fit the cult in there but maybe in a normal cad? I don't know. I just know you had the issue of no high strength, those guys gained a wound dropped 10 points, and retained their guns with preffered enemy. Wraithknight, who is scared of wraithknights?

The AdeptiCon missions are going to reward Objective Secured, MSU (need to be resilient MSU, but still) and mobility.

You will see a Lynx in every Eldar list; I would stay away from taking a Super Heavy unless it brings its own D. MSU (in an end-of-turn scoring format with 6 objectives on the table) not only scores well, but is a viable approach to dealing with the D.

So, whichever list represents the best mobile, OS & MSU army is probably your best.

sgc8647 wrote:How about Necron list n1 with remove some TB and add Destroyer cult (or a judicator batallion) ?

About Nemsor Z what warlord Trait do you think are the more usefull ?

(on top of that how would you deal with Tau's Missile Side spam + Riptide or with a Serpent Spam + WraithKnight ?

MTC Stealth Ruins
Most of the Maelstrom tactical warlord traits
Forcing an opponent to use the worst leadership
Eternal Warrior if he has got himself into a pinch (was avoiding a huskblade the other day with EW)
Re-rolling to hit rolls of 1 in combat and/or shooting (Within 12" of wraiths can essentially give them preferred enemy for hitting.)

Epartalis wrote:I think your am build 1 is the most competitive of the 4. That strength 10 ap1 ignores cover is dirty.

However I have a short spot in my heart for my first army necrons, so I voted for Necron list 1. The only thing I would say is would you consider fitting some heavy destroyers in there? I mean I know you don't exactly have the points to fit the cult in there but maybe in a normal cad? I don't know. I just know you had the issue of no high strength, those guys gained a wound dropped 10 points, and retained their guns with preffered enemy. Wraithknight, who is scared of wraithknights?

Wraiths are scared of wraithknights...
As for the destroyers... i took a glance at them but they have a few flaws people are not realizing:
Low model count; S5 Guns that are only ap3; they are slow now for a short range; and perhaps the biggest issue.. they do not ignore cover. It is so easy to get a 3+ or even a 2+ cover in the game right now. Maybe in the next edition where cover comes down to earth a little bit. As it stands if your list needs to be able to ignore cover to a degree. Especially if your paying a premium for the unit.

DCannon4Life wrote:The AdeptiCon missions are going to reward Objective Secured, MSU (need to be resilient MSU, but still) and mobility.

You will see a Lynx in every Eldar list; I would stay away from taking a Super Heavy unless it brings its own D. MSU (in an end-of-turn scoring format with 6 objectives on the table) not only scores well, but is a viable approach to dealing with the D.

So, whichever list represents the best mobile, OS & MSU army is probably your best.

That is one thing I like about the crons... the list is mobile and resilient. As for the lords of war... with the new necrons dropping it just got that much easier to bring them down. I was kind of on the wall on whether or not to field a lord of war but have since fell off the wall with the glance combined with the dakka capabilities of the new crons.



Addition to list #1 from necrons suggestion:
Drop immortals to one unit of 5
Drop shield veins from one unit of tomb blades
Drop one whip coil
Add Culexus(play tested this guy and he is truly a beast if played right and I think i can play him right) assassin to keep me from being maledictions to death and to prevent invisible/invincible shenanigans
Add fabricator claw to the spyder to repair hullpoints on the ghost arks if i need to... its a 5 point upgrade and the spyder wont be shooting anything.

The immortals dont really do much for me in the game except sit in my back field... the assassin could just as easily camp in a corner on an objective out of line of site for me.

I like the proposed changes to your Necron list. I gave the Cullexis a try a few times, but couldn't quite pick up on how best to use it. I was also running it paired with a Mech list, which made it one of the softest targets on the table. /shrug Good luck!

 Tomb King wrote:


Having a unit that can move 37-42" in a turn is pretty amazing.

You realize only eldar jetbikes can make assault moves correct? You should be maxing out at 30".

Hey I thought that list looked familiar. I was the guy who ran the horde dark eldar.

I think that list will do really well, but I also like the first AM list. Either way you probably wont come up against horde dark eldar again.

DCannon4Life wrote:I like the proposed changes to your Necron list. I gave the Cullexis a try a few times, but couldn't quite pick up on how best to use it. I was also running it paired with a Mech list, which made it one of the softest targets on the table. /shrug Good luck!

Yes, the Culexus assassin has a ton of utility. He can instant kill anything that I get him into assault with. He can nullify maledictions and blessings. He can shoot in the psychic phase . He also has a grenade that causes perils. That means I have a one and 6 chance of instant gibbing some psykers with a grenade.

Red Corsair wrote:

 Tomb King wrote:


Having a unit that can move 37-42" in a turn is pretty amazing.

You realize only eldar jetbikes can make assault moves correct? You should be maxing out at 30".

All bikes move 12".
Turbo-boosting Bikes move up to 12", Turbo-boosting Jetbikes move up to 24".
In addition to following all the rules for Jetbikes, if an Eldar Jetbike elects to Turbo-boost in
the Shooting phase, it can move up to 36". If they do not Turbo-boost, Eldar Jetbikes may
move up to 2D6" in the Assault phase, even if they have shot in the preceding Shooting phase
or arrived by Deep Strike that turn.
Maxed out without running is 36" for necron jetbikes. With a run its 37-42".

Icculus wrote:Hey I thought that list looked familiar. I was the guy who ran the horde dark eldar.

I think that list will do really well, but I also like the first AM list. Either way you probably wont come up against horde dark eldar again.

Hey man how are you doing. I appreciate the game it showed me a lot about the list and what it can handle. The game helped me learn how to move my units and what I need to do to capture objectives etc... I would not mind facing off against you again. The game was back and forth there for a while and then i gradually pulled ahead.

I've killed plenty of Cullexis myself. Just last week my 10 cultists mobbed one (he only had 2 wounds left) and beat him down. In a tournament last fall, I lost a Wraithknight to one but then shot it to death in Overwatch when it assaulted a unit of Dark Eldar Warriors. /shrug

They've been quirky and inconsistent. Other than putting one in a Space Wolf (or Blood Angel?) Drop Pod to get it where you need it (maybe WHEN you need it), they are decent at area denial (versus psychic-reliant death stars).

Running one in a target saturation list (MSU) like you seem to be leaning toward, is likely the best option, unless you play in a terrain-rich meta where he's easier to safely hide/advance.

what does a horde DE list look like?

I want to see you run Necrons. I'd prefer Necron #1 but drop 1 immortals and a couple of bikes for a night scythe.

 Tomb King wrote:

Maxed out without running is 36" for necron jetbikes. With a run its 37-42".

Bikes cannot run. They turbo-boost instead so max movement for tomb blades is 36".

 jy2 wrote:
I want to see you run Necrons. I'd prefer Necron #1 but drop 1 immortals and a couple of bikes for a night scythe.

 Tomb King wrote:

Maxed out without running is 36" for necron jetbikes. With a run its 37-42".

Bikes cannot run. They turbo-boost instead so max movement for tomb blades is 36".

lol well played.. i guess we were both wrong red.

As for the night scythe... if I drop the bikes I take away a good portion of my offensive power... if I put the immortals in the night scythe then my warlord isnt on the table to grant me his buffs as there is no unit to attach him to. I could always run the night scythe empty but I am not exactly sold on reserves for this list. A more alpha approach to attacking the enemy. However, the night scythe could really help against any air threats that I might run into, but what good can one night scythe do in that regard. My thought on fmc's is I figure they have to land eventually and one night scythe will not kill off an MC. Kind of putting my money on trying to get a skyfire objective at some point or just ignoring flyers like I did against the 9 flyer list I faced at feast of blades.

 Deuce11 wrote:
what does a horde DE list look like?

HQ
Archon w/ Soul-trap, hukblade, parasite’s kiss = 100
Haemonculus, webway portal, mindphase gauntlet = 110
Elite
10 Mandrakes w/ nightfiend = 130
4 grotesques w/ aberration w/ scissorhand = 160
Troops
20 Kab Warriors 2 splinter cannons (15) w/ sybarite = 200
20 Kab Warriors 2 splinter cannons (15) w/ sybarite = 200
20 Kab Warriors 2 splinter cannons (15) w/ sybarite = 200
Fast
5 scourges w/ 4 haywire blasters = 120
5 scourges w/ 4 haywire blasters = 120
Heavy
Cronos w/ spirit probe = 125
Cronos w/ spirit probe = 125
2 Talos w/ TL heat lances and chain flails = 260
1850


This was only the second time I ran this list. And I like it, but I think I need to tweak the deep strike unit. They arent shooting enough OR choppy enough. I think if the deep strike unit caused a bigger splash, the game may have gone a different way, Well that and if my haywire scourges could have wrecked a vehicle before they got wiped from the map.

I have found a huge flaw in every single build you have made in here. NO ORKS, sorry on principle alone you lose

 Ghazkuul wrote:
I have found a huge flaw in every single build you have made in here. NO ORKS, sorry on principle alone you lose

What if i included gretchin... would they count?

Sorry no, Gretchin are an Ork Food source not actual orks. You need at least one Ork and at least one item of war gear that can possibly explode and kill the user and or any nearby models. I would recommend a looted wagon or a SAG.

 Ghazkuul wrote:
Sorry no, Gretchin are an Ork Food source not actual orks. You need at least one Ork and at least one item of war gear that can possibly explode and kill the user and or any nearby models. I would recommend a looted wagon or a SAG.

6,6 Krakoom! When resolving this shot, the shokk attack gun has the Vortex special rule. Would make for one hell of a dead imperial knight.

Gentlemen my updated list 1:

Necrons: Codex (2015) (Decurion Detachment)
Core

Reclamation Legion


5x Immortals (gauss)

Nemesor Zahndrekh (soo much utility here especially in maelstorm missions)

Tomb Blade x10
Nebuloscopex10, Twin-linked Gauss Blastersx10

Tomb Blade x10
Nebuloscopex10, Shield Vanesx10, Twin-linked Gauss Blastersx10

Tomb Blade x10
Nebuloscopex10, Shield Vanesx10, Twin-linked Gauss Blastersx10


10x Necron Warrior
Ghost Ark

10x Necron Warrior
Ghost Ark

Auxiliary

Canoptek Harvest

3x Canoptek Scarab

Canoptek Spyder

Canoptek Wraiths x 6 (Whip Coilsx5)

CULEXUS ASSASSIN

total: 1850

I like it.

I voted for the first Necron list.
You could get the most milage out of it.

jy2 wrote:I like it.

wuestenfux wrote:I voted for the first Necron list.
You could get the most milage out of it.

Gentlemen, I once again had to modify my list #1. Sadly I had to drop a unit of tomb blades. It pains me to do so as they are an amazing unit and I still might split one of the remaining units in half to give me 3 mobile jetbike units. The change came about thanks to the ruling on gauss vs VSG's. Gauss weapons by strict raw do not effect void shields. So with that in mind I had to take some hits but I think I managed to make a better TAC list in the process.

Gentlemen my updated list 1:

Necrons: Codex (2015) (Decurion Detachment)
Core

Reclamation Legion


6x Immortals (gauss)

Nemesor Zahndrekh (soo much utility here especially in maelstrom missions)

Tomb Blade x10
Nebuloscopex10, Shield Vanesx10, Twin-linked Gauss Blastersx10

Tomb Blade x10
Nebuloscopex10, Shield Vanesx10, Twin-linked Gauss Blastersx10


10x Necron Warrior
Ghost Ark

10x Necron Warrior
Ghost Ark

Auxiliary

Canoptek Harvest

3x Canoptek Scarab

Canoptek Spyder

Canoptek Wraiths x 6 (Whip Coilsx6)


Deathbringer Flight

Doom Scythe

Doom Scythe

So I dropped 10 tomb blades and 1 culexus assasin. I managed to pick up 1 immortal, 1 whip coil, and 2 doom scythes. It pains me to drop the assassin as well as he was my best bet at stopping those silly death stars. What are your thoughts on the updated list? Do you agree that I should break up the tomb blades to 3 even units, 2 split units/1 full unit, 1 full unit, 1 min unit with +1 jink, 1 7 man unit, or just keep them the same to maximize firepower and survivability for the two 10 man squads.

Does Gauss auto-glance buildings or have no effect? If it does, can you game plan to get within the shield and go after the generator itself?

Assuming you've no interest in odd (say, missile launcher devastators, for example) allies, I'm not sure where else you'd get enough firepower to take down V-shields.

DCannon4Life wrote:
Does Gauss auto-glance buildings or have no effect? If it does, can you game plan to get within the shield and go after the generator itself?

Assuming you've no interest in odd (say, missile launcher devastators, for example) allies, I'm not sure where else you'd get enough firepower to take down V-shields.

I have a very evil plan to take down void shield generators.... however, I have to keep this one close to my chest. Usually not my style but its a game breaking strategy that I have thought up to deal with the void shield generator. As for your question: Gauss: When firing a weapon with this special rule, a To Wound roll of a 6 wounds automatically, regardless of the target’s Toughness. Against vehicles and buildings, an Armour Penetration roll of a 6 that does not cause a penetrating hit automatically causes a glancing hit.

So moving within the shield and then blasting it is also a strategy but its easier said then done. lol