Rick Priestley on GW's current position

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**theHandofGork**

Rick Priestley posted a few comments on Facebook today that I thought the dakka community would find interesting. If this is inappropriate for the Dakka Discussions page I'm sure a Mod will let me know.

It started with following being posted on his wall:

You sir are a legend! Its a shame that gw have lost their way a bit and moved away from the humorous, dark, irrelevant and very British state of Warhammer and 40k that you pretty much invented

After a number of replies from others with similar sentiments, Rick posted the following:

Blimey you turn your back for a day or two! I worked for GW (Citadel in Newark and then GW at Eastwood and Nottingham) for 28 years, and the company changed a great deal over that time, but we always aimed at making money. I can just about remember the days when making money was about having enough in the bank at the end of the month to cover our wages - I don't know if that was ever literally true - but it certainly came across that way! We also enjoyed what we were doing! We enjoyed games and gaming and - of course - the models that went with that. The big recent change is that GW has actually stated - both during the Chapter House court hearing and subsequently to its shareholders - that it considers its market to be collectors of models and not gamers. The games are very much played down internally, and you can see with the latest (very nicely done!) models that they are conceived as collectors pieces that have very little practicality in terms of a wargame. It's perfec tly fine for GW to turn its backs upon wargaming in favour of modelling and collecting if that is the vision of the current management. But the result is that many customers who are or have been passionate about GW's games do feel marginalized.

I should add that we always used to maintain a games design department that was fairly heavy weight - smart guys, some of them rebarbative, bloody-minded and mildly dangerous types (dangerous to themselves on occasion). I won't say who it was... but one of our staff once ran back into the burning building he'd just been rescued from by the fire brigade to recover his 'stash' from the flames! The design team has been run down over the years - the guys who work there now are just not doing the same sort of work and they're not the same sort of people. Probably for the best

...betting the company on the assumption that the market is primarily collectors and not gamers is a big gamble isn't it! In the short term it will work because so many gamers are loyal to the backgrounds and to what is left of the games range (that'll be 40K then). The large, very nicely done, collectors style pieces generate good sales at high margins. I would expect to see an improvement in full year performance under their new CEO - and maybe even a dividend! Long term though... if GW is sincere about changing its market stance (and does not lose its bottle and start to back track - which is still possible) it opens up the market to any number of new companies that are interested in games, gaming and gamers! That won't do GW any harm so long as they are determined to abandon that market - and it would leave them to concentrate on a mixture of high price highly profitable collectibles and licensing its IP out into other media - always something I felt was under exploited due to fear of losing control at the top of the business. But what do I know

Well I'm touched by all the thank yous! So let me add my own. Thank you for making it possible for me and so many of my comrades to earn a living doing something we love - there's not many people get that chance - and I remain eternally grateful.

I hope someone else found this to be interesting as well.

**TheKbob**

Thanks for sharing! So did the game make them and so shall (the lack of it) break them, it seems.

**KhorneIsLove**

Cool read, thanks for posting. Makes me wish i had gotten into the hobby earlier than now.

**aka_mythos**

I find this interesting but also a bit disheartened. It confirms that GW is aware of many of the sentiments of its fan base but that its really insistent on giving up on the game and ignore those player sentiments.

**OIIIIIIO**

Kinda makes you think that the big rush for 7th to get all the codexes current is a set up for the big ending. By that I mean, GW pretty much just keeping the IP and no longer producing any new rules.

**Hanskrampf**

OIIIIIIO wrote:
Kinda makes you think that the big rush for 7th to get all the codexes current is a set up for the big ending. By that I mean, GW pretty much just keeping the IP and no longer producing any new rules.

I still hope they stop making rules and outsource them to FFG or some other company.

**H.B.M.C.**

Hanskrampf wrote:
OIIIIIIO wrote:
Kinda makes you think that the big rush for 7th to get all the codexes current is a set up for the big ending. By that I mean, GW pretty much just keeping the IP and no longer producing any new rules.

I still hope they stop making rules and outsource them to FFG or some other company.

I wouldn't say no to that...

**MWHistorian**

The company and game have Changed for the worst and degraded to the point that I can no longer support them.

**sarpedons-right-hand**

I'm sorry to say that I have to agree with MWHistorian.. Not because he's a bad guy (

) but because after 20+ years enjoying the GW hobby and games, I just can't do it anymore. The only GW games I now play on anything like a regular basis are Warhammer Quest, 4th Ed WHFB and 2nd Ed 40k. I have not bought a GW product in nearly 5 years and am instead giving PP and Hordes my money and time.

**TheDraconicLord**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Hanskrampf wrote:
OIIIIIIO wrote:
Kinda makes you think that the big rush for 7th to get all the codexes current is a set up for the big ending. By that I mean, GW pretty much just keeping the IP and no longer producing any new rules.

I still hope they stop making rules and outsource them to FFG or some other company.

I wouldn't say no to that...

That's such a win-win scenario for the players that it will never happen :(

**Wolfstan**

If GW consider their target market to be collectors and modellers why do they target young teen boys? A collector or modeller isn't going to build up huge armies, if you're lucky they will paint up one of each squad / vehicle / single piece.

**von Hohenstein**

Hanskrampf wrote:

I still hope they stop making rules and outsource them to FFG or some other company.

Great models AND perfect rules - I don't think I could afford this ;-)

Warmahordes would probably go broke.

**angelofvengeance**

I'm not overly familiar with FFG but rules writing wise what are they like?

**insaniak**

aka_mythos wrote:
I find this interesting but also a bit disheartened. It confirms that GW is aware of many of the sentiments of its fan base but that its really insistent on giving up on the game and ignore those player sentiments.

Well, no, it confirms that Rick Priestly is aware of the sentiments of its fan base, and suggests that GW has no idea who their customers are or what they want, which is an idea that is backed up by Tom Kirby proudly announcing in their financials that they don't do market research.

The move to targeting collectors over modelers seems to be coming from their belief that this is what the bulk of their customers already are. They don't understand their own games or why people, particularly adults, would want to play them.

**Vermis**

I guess the OP on the facebook page meant 'irreverent'. Remember kids: Wargaming - the hobby that encourages readin', ritin' and 'rithmetic!

(Mind you, 'irrelevant' is a pretty good description of what GW is becoming.)

insaniak wrote:
They don't understand their own games or why people, particularly adults, would want to play them.

Well

Personally, I can't blame them too much for that.

**PsychoticStorm**

It more or less confirms what we suspected and expected, from their actions.

As sad it may or may not be GW of the past is gone and the chances of them coming back are slim to non existent, the new entity shares only a name and nothing else.

I would worry that their direction and their ideas of their customers comes at a direct conflict with their manufacturing and infrastructure and they way they handle their IP degrades its value.

This is so weird since they have two sub departments Black Library and Forgeworld that get what the parent company should be doing and how their IP should be handled.

**Eggs**

angelofvengeance wrote:
I'm not overly familiar with FFG but rules writing wise what are they like?

I've found them to be pretty tight. They aren't perfect, but they are rules writers first and foremost, who have found themselves with a massive hit minatures game.

**Kelly502**

Uh...that's a load of GAK! :/ There goes that then, does he still work for them and talk about the company like that, or do they really not care about gamers? And the miniatures are impractical for gaming? I love them for my games... I hated this read... I guess it does confirm what the nay sayers have been unloading in the forums.

I've been a fan and customer since the beginning, this is like a kick in the sack.

shuffles quietly away, head hung low...

**Pete Melvin**

It should be said that Lord P. has not worked for GW for some years, but clearly he saw the direction they were going while he was there and didn't like it.
I wouldn't be surprised if thats still the case but you know, omnia mutantur.

**MeanGreenStompa**

They should hand rules writing over to the FW team.

And model design...

Perhaps they should just fold GW into FW...

**PsychoticStorm**

His NDA probably ended last year, that's why he has such freedom in commenting.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

MeanGreenStompa wrote:
They should hand rules writing over to the FW team.

And model design...

Perhaps they should just fold GW into FW...

I would argue that Black Library did the best effort in making their Fluff good.

**Vanguard-13**

Nice to read.

Sad about GWs position.

But that's why so many other games are gaining popularity.

**MWHistorian**

This all comes as no surprise to people who have paid attention.

**locarno24**

Eggs wrote:
angelofvengeance wrote:
I'm not overly familiar with FFG but rules writing wise what are they like?

I've found them to be pretty tight. They aren't perfect, but they are rules writers first and foremost, who have found themselves with a massive hit minatures game.

They're actually damn good at the Background/RPG side of things, as well. Have a look at some of the artwork on their Dark Heresy (inquisition) and Deathwatch (space marine) RPG lines - a lot of what they've done has felt 'very GW'. One of the best books I remember is Daemonhunter, an Ordo Malleus sourcebook for Dark Heresy, which took the 5th edition Grey Knight codex background and made it actually make sense with only a few minor tweaks. They're very good at adding in minor details that make things very cool - like the 'how to read/generate grey knight armour heraldry' bit, or some of the often sarcastic-but-funny quotes that tend to open chapters:

Investigation Tests
"My first clue? Well, the tentacles were a tip-off..." Confessor Crexus

**agnosto**

insaniak wrote:

The move to targeting collectors over modelers seems to be coming from their belief that this is what the bulk of their customers already are. They don't understand their own games or why people, particularly adults, would want to play them.

I don't understand why people, particularly rational people, would want to play them either. It's like they're sitting in the "design studio" (really just the remaining rules writer's cubicle) and all agape that people are still buying the rulebooks. That would also explain why nearly all the fluff is rehashed and the books are nearly all rushed, copy-paste jobs.

**MWHistorian**

agnosto wrote:
insaniak wrote:

The move to targeting collectors over modelers seems to be coming from their belief that this is what the bulk of their customers already are. They don't understand their own games or why people, particularly adults, would want to play them.

I don't understand why people, particularly rational people, would want to play them either. It's like they're sitting in the "design studio" (really just the remaining rules writer's cubicle) and all agape that people are still buying the rulebooks. That would also explain why nearly all the fluff is rehashed and the books are nearly all rushed, copy-paste jobs.

They get the intern to write the rules?

**Wayniac**

Kind of sad, I fondly remember liking the game during Rick's tenure. I think his design philosophy shows in how things are done with Warlord Games. I was reading the Gates of Antares Beta and while it still could use some work IMHO it seems to play solidly and provide a similar to but different enough experience from 40k. I just don't care that much for the factions as they seem kind of generic and lacking. I would give it a shot though if I had anywhere that was interested in anything beyond Warhammer and/or Warmachine.

It depresses me sometimes being in an area that doesn't want to expand their gaming. Me, I'd be playing Infinity, Dropzone Commander, historical games from basically any era, etc. but nobody cares :(

**Chute82**

This is no surprise to me since GW does no market research they have no idea who their customers are or what they want.

**BeAfraid**

Are people really that surprised that GW has "abandoned" its base?

I would think this was blatantly obvious as early as Bryan Ansell selling the company.

And the way in which it pursued the LotR license showed that it has little concern for anything but a mercenary pursuit of objectifying its customers.

It holds these properties in such a way as to basically exclude them from others, rather than to really develop them.

At this point, GW seems to be that crazy uncle who used to be a lot of fun when you were young, but as you got older, you realize he is kind of crazy and cranky, having developed beliefs in things like conspiracies, or that there are mind control rays he needs to protect himself from.

Such a pity.

I just wish they produced anything outside the LOTR license that I liked.... I suppose the Tau are kinda cool, but they just don't really do anything with theTau.

MB

**Azreal13**

I thinks he's right about them going after collectors, but the message has got massively confused at GW.

GW were already targeting collectors, its called Forge World. For all my critical comments about GW (which in themselves are borne of a disire to see them do better) there is barely any criticism I could level at FW's range of models, they're a decent representation of what any collector models company should be aspiring to.

The situation we currently have is GW, the company element who should be targeting the gamer, lack any sort of gateway product and are trying to sell perfectly respectable gaming pieces as collectors items (which they are not) when the only thing they really have in common is the RRP.

Simultaneously, we have FW embarking on the Heresy project, which involves people acquiring far more models, at far greater investment, than was ever really appropriate for their approach.

It's all arse about face, and for all the good will and enthusiasm that the Heresy seems to generate among the fans, it certainly hasn't generated the cash to go with it.