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Hey everyone! This is a they army that I would like to be scrutinised for tournament play. I do know that my HQ choice is weak but that is to make room for the other units I wanted to take and also to ensure that the Wraithguard counted as troop choice. Anyway feedback would be very useful, here is the list:

HQ
Spirit seer w/The Pheonix Gem (95)

Troops
8x Dire Avengers, Wave serpent w/Scatter lasers and Holo-fields (239)
5x Wraithblades, Wave serpent w/Scatter lasers and Holo-fields (295)
5x Wraithguard, Wave serpent w/Scatter lasers and Holo-fields (295)

Fast Attack
5x Warp Spiders, Exarch (124)

Heavy Support
Falcon w/Scatter laser and Holo-fields (150)
Wraithknight w/Scatter laser, Suncannon and Scattershield (300)

Total: 1498

For Tournament play you don't really have much for 1500 points, you will probably hold your own against the less competitive lists but not against the really good ones.

So what do you suggest I do to improve?

Do you really want to make your list stronger ?

What kind of tournaments will you be attending ?

Do you want to have the strongest list possible ?

Is there a theme you would like to stick to ?

I want a strong list using the models I currently have, a friendly ish local tournament and No I dont have any particular theme.

These are all of my models for Eldar:

Farseer on Bike (can be used as Autarch)
2x arseer with singing spear
Avatar

10 Fire Dragons
6 Banshees
5 Wraithblades
9 Wraithguard (cannons only)

10x Dire avengers
10x Dire avengers
5x Rangers
4x Jetbikes

5x Warp Spiders

Falcon
Fire Prism
Wraithknight
Wraithlord

With your models, I would go this way:

5x Dire Avengers, Wave Serpent Holo Scatter - 200
5x Dire Avengers, Wave Serpent Holo Scatter - 200
5x Dire Avengers, Wave Serpent Holo Scatter - 200

5x Warp Spiders - 95

WraithKnight - 240
Night Spinner (proxy fire prism) - 115

That's a 1050 points core I truly believe in.


Then we delve in the stuff that doesn't work so great.

You could probably get good mileage of adding an exarch (+10) to the warp spiders with a spinneret rifle (+15) and fast shot (+10) to add some measure of punch to the unit, 3shots S6AP1 monofilament at 9" range or 2 at 18". It's less optimal than naked Spiders I think but more versatile.

3x Jetbikes for 51 points, useful for objectives and cheap enough.

You'll want to absolutely avoid the Rangers and the Wraith dudes, so you can try running a Falcon with bright lance (135) to complement your long range AT.

That would take you to 1271 points, still short so I guess a Mantleseer is the less bad choice here, 155 points brings you to 1426.

For the 74 remaining points, I guess you could add 3 Shuriken Cannons to your Wave Serpents, those tend to be sub optimal but then whatever you add at this point will be.

44 remaining... something dumb probably like "Spirit Stone of Anath'lan" for 15 points, Singing spear for 5 points, a fourth jetbike for 19 points and you're left with 5 points.


If you have other Wave Serpents however...

I did a 1500 list that was *fairly* similar and won a tourney with it:

It was

1 Spiritseer
5 Wraithguard in a wave serpent with HF SL and SC
10 Guardians in Wave Serp SL HF
10 Guardians in wave serp SL HF
1 wraithlord 1BL 1 Glaive
3 Vypers SL SC
1 falcon BL HF
1 falcon SL HF

it won every game, only used the wraithguard in 2 games (the enemy had died too soon in all the other games) and tabled 3 people in 2 turns. Only in the final did one wraithguard even die.

So this gives me some sort of insight into this lists mechanics, you are going to want to build on your STR6/7 mass firepower and you want to overwhelm everything so it is not standing, warp spiders, wave serpents shields and SL do this.

I would take all 3 heavy supports as falcon, WL and WK.. use them to always focus shoot the SAME target, give the WL 2 BL and the falcon 1 BL DO NOT PUT TROOPS IN THE FALCONS. move your WK into close combat usually in the middle of the board.. he needs to be in close combat asap never shoot anything with him unless you are 100% it doesn't interfere with him getting into close combat (unless it's a run move maybe)

the WK is a beast in close combat do not let the model sculpt fool you he needs to be in close combat

build a wave serpent/ dire avenger core, add warp spiders, use your warp spiders to tag along with the wave serpent fire (they all must have scatter lasers) I would recommend getting wraithguard (vanilla) with the spirit seer into a wave serpent too so that should be 3 wave serpents plus 5 warp spiders concentrating all their fire on one unit at a time in a big gang

@ConanMan, if you won hands down with that list, that means your opponents had rather weak lists and/or played marginally worse than you.

Congratulations still.

The WK is not really a beast in close combat, in fact he's afraid of almost every single good CC unit, he's just a butcher against vehicles and defenseless MCs.

*sigh* no offence but it really is a good list, (so much so about 1000 points of it was enough most games) and I always get told I am wrong on the forums, because you all copy and paste the same ideas, without digesting it. But there you go, 21 hull points that can pretty much relocate wherever it likes like distributes about 70 shots per turn is a bad list. it won vs a super heavy escalation army, vs 3 imp guard fliers, vs land raiders, vs orks with dakka jets and all the waaagh toys, plus tyranids that had never been beaten, anyway... you know better

*sigh* perhaps you didn't even really read what I was saying : this was not a " *here I am this is my list*" type post but a "*I have experience of something similar*", nevermind


Automatically Appended Next Post:

morgoth wrote:

The WK is not really a beast in close combat,

wow. :-/ wow. just "wow"

@ConanMan, I make my own lists thank you.

I'm sorry though, it wasn't my intention to hurt you in any way.

Here's why I believe your list could be stronger:

1 Spiritseer
5 Wraithguard in a wave serpent with HF SL and SC
10 Guardians in Wave Serp SL HF
10 Guardians in wave serp SL HF
1 wraithlord 1BL 1 Glaive
3 Vypers SL SC
1 falcon BL HF
1 falcon SL HF

Wraithguard just don't pull their weight in most cases, and they weight a lot in points.
Guardians do great, much better than Dire Avengers in my opinion, but still worse than Wave Serpents point for point, which is why I still play DA WS (after testing several lists with 60 guardians which are not standard at all).

Wraithlords are just plain bad. When you give them two bright lances, they're 80 points short of a WraithKnight and they really don't do 75% as much.

Falcons with bright lances and scatter lasers, I see you want a bit of support for anti air and anti tank, both are fairly acceptable choices, just not really good in my opinion, any of the two costs you as much as two War Walkers that will deal double the damage, if only for one turn, and can JSJ.

The Vypers have nice damage output but they're made of paper, so unless you keep on facing targets that just can't hurt you back at 24", they die too fast to be worth their costs. For 5 points more, you get War Walkers which generally do better, and another 5 points get you better weapon configurations.


So yes, your list is good, far from being bad, you didn't waste many points on useless upgrades, but overall I think it would tie with a more or less 1300 points fully optimized list. Not bad at all, still some way to go in my opinion.



With regards to the WraithKnight, it struggles against PKs, TWC, Wraiths, SW Dreadnoughts with 3++, ....

That doesn't make it bad but it does make it "don't throw this at a dedicated CC unit if you want to keep it".