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Hi,

Hoping to get some advice from knowledgable 40k players. It's been about 18 years since I played any 40k, and i've forgotten pretty much everything.

I over the past few months I've picked up various SM models from various sources and started painting again. It's been fun. I'm slowly pulling together my own visual theme for this little army. But i'm starting to think about how i'd table this as a playable force... and i'm not sure I can.

I have:
Sternguard
Blood Angels Tact marines
A furiso Dreadnought (with the "death" front plate, with the big X and skull)
Ravenwing bike squad
DA Deathwing terminator squad
Marneus Calgar

If I understand correctly, i'm spanning three codexes there :-S

To be clear, I picked models based on how they looked originally to paint, and not really with an army in mind.

Now I know it's possible to bring in allied units, and have one squad play as BA, others as DA, more as SM, but it feels messy and kinda unfair on any opponent (keeping track of what is what). I've yet to buy any of the codexes as I really don't want to buy all three. I'd like to settle on one and focus on it.

So, I guess my questions for you fine folks are;

Can I play just one Codex and simply have the other models act as proxies for things in the codex? Like if I play BA, can I say that my ravenwing bike squads are simply a standard bike squad? And that my terminators are whatever is in the BA codex?

Or is it better to table an army of allied squads and mark them somehow? (paint the base differently?).

This may be a loaded question, but I always assumed that the SM codex was a base codex for all space marine chapters, and the more specific codexes (BA, DA, SW, etc) added to it? i.e. any unit, HQ or elite in the SM codex could be used by any chapter... but i'm beginning to suspect this isn't the case. Marneus Calgary can't be used as a DA unit, for example?

Finally, if the above can be pulled together into something playable, what would you add to make it a well rounded "starter" army?

Appreciate this is a loaded thread, thanks in advance for replies!

First, welcome to Dakka.

Most people are OK with basic proxies, particularly from newer players. Others have issues, and many tournaments will have stricter rules. But for the most part a marine with a bolter is a marine with a bolter.

Depending on what gear they have, there may be issues using units from other chapters. While at one point in time, they were just differently painted marines, over the years GW has added more things to set them apart. For example, deathwing terminators can have plasma cannons, normal ones can’t. There are also exclusive units in all the books, including the basic one.

Assuming you don’t have any exclusive warger, the only issue you have with your collection is the furioso. Which is a BA exclusive unit. That said, there is the Ironclad dread in C:SM that could probably be a close match. Close enough that most people wouldn’t blink at it. I don’t think the DA have an equivalent.

As to putting together a list:

Your only HQ is Calgar. So that kinda limits you to playing Ultramarines. That’s not a bad thing (I play them myself) but he’s an expensive character, even if he is rather nice. He’s better suited to larger lists. You could field him as a captain with 2x powerfists for another chapter, but that’s an expensive and kinda lame gear selection.

You only have one troop pick, the BA tacticals. You could probably field them as two 5 man squads (assuming you have 10) This assumes you are building an army based on the old force org chart, which you don’t strictly need to do these days.

Bikes are in a good spot these days from a rules POV. Some chapters have slightly better options/rules, but they should serve you well no mater where you go. They are also the FA unit in your otherwise elite heavy collection.

Sternguard are a solid unit. DA vets work differently, so YMMV if you go that route.

Terminators are OK in less competitive metas. But the more aggressive lists put out a LOT of AP2 shooting, so the points you spend on the armor gets wasted. In friendly games at the FLGS, they should do fine.

The dread is going to be a target for all the anti-tank fire on the other side of the table. And is a CC dread trying to walk. Besides that he should be OK.

Your big choice is which codex to use. Blood Angels or the vanilla codex are probably your best choices. If you paint them as your own successor chapter, you can switch freely later. The things on your short list to acquire are probably going to be:

--Another HQ. Librarians are good generic characters. But they all have a place depending on the army/style you go with.
--Transports. One of the big aspects of the game is getting units to objectives. Both drop pods and rhinos have their uses, but you need more mobility. Your dread would especially like a pod, even if the rest of your army is on foot/in tanks
--Another troop pick. Probably scouts/tacticals, but if you go with codex marines (or DA) there are ways to get other units as troops.

After that, it’s a mater of taste, and what the models you have are equipped with starts to matter more.

There are a lot of ways to build an army, even with just the vanilla codex. You might want to borrow the different codexes from someone and flip through them, see if anything calls out to you. With what you have, BA or basic seems the best bet, but you need to be happy with your choice.

Good luck and have fun!

Hi there,

Welcome to Dakka. We have cookies . . . ?

I don't know the other codexes, but in general terms:

Sternguard - These work anywhere, depending on loadout
Blood Angels Tact marines - Bolters? Fine. Specials and Heavies, check first.
A furiso Dreadnought (with the "death" front plate, with the big X and skull) - Get a set of 'normal' Dread arms, and swap them out when not used it as a BA Dread
Ravenwing bike squad - These work anywhere, depending on loadout
DA Deathwing terminator squad - If they're able to class as either Storm-bolter Tacticals or claw/hammer Assault Terms, it's just the heavies and Serg to sort out
Marneus Calgar - See if you can get the equivalent loadout on a normal Captain

If you're relatively new, just proxy them and and make sure your opponent knows what everything is.

If the models have non-generic loadouts, look to making an allied detachment of them. Your main force would be 1 HQ and 2 troops, and the allies would be 1 HQ and 1 troop choice.
Calgar is a specific model, and can only be used as Calgar of the Ultramarines (or an offshoot chapter). Everything else in his detachment has to be Ultramarines too. But, if you wanted to use a Captain with 2 power gloves (and the codex allows it), demote him and strip him of his name to use him in any chapter.

As for tactics, look to fitting the Dread and Sternguard in drop pods. If you have enough, maybe use 2 pods for the Sternguard, and another for the dread. Pods work best in odd numbers.

Thanks for taking time to reply chaps - I appreciate it.

Based on what you've written my Sternguard, Bikes and Dreadnought (with "standard" arms) can be tabled for any codex.

The terminators can be proxied to the codex, if I field them.

Calgar is standard SM and can't be used with BA or DA unless I make him a standard captain. He's a HQ.

The Tact squad (10 men atm) could be split into two squads, and as-long as their loadout meets my selected codex i'm good to go with them.

The dread is a slow, lumbering target as a Furioso (as he's mostly CC), but fielding a more standard dread would be fine without a pod (not optimal, but OK). I've magnetised his arms, and found a couple of standard arms (twin cannon, etc) on eBay so can field something from other codexes.

Sweet.



I've ordered the base SM codex and i'm going to make an off-shoot chapter of the Ultramarines to get into the game.

Nevelon - I was thinking of adding a scout sniper squad (and perhaps Telion) in the short term, and leaving the dread out of my first games while I learn the basics. But it seems like i'd be better served by a Rhino or two to move troops around. Would I be better served by two Rhinos or a single Land Raider do you think? Seems like a Raider can take more punishment and dish out more damage, but would only carry one of the 2x5 tact?

Cheers again!

Sniper squads are great for camping on objectives and taking pot shots downrange. They don’t cost a lot of points, and with camo cloaks can be rough to budge out of cover. It’s been a while since I’ve fielded mine, but mostly due to me working more with drop pods and bikes. I’m still up in the air on how I feel about Talion. He’s nice, but I’m not sure about his value for his points. Nice model though. I like them in low point games, as they fill a troop slot and give you more to spend on other things.

You will almost defiantly be better off with a pair of rhinos. As a note, consider picking up razorback kits. By simply not glueing the top hatch on you can switch back and forth between rhinos/razors. While I love my Land Raider, it costs a ton of points. And while it is tough, there is a lot of things that can crack it open. In it’s defense, there are also a lot of things that just patter off it’s hull like a gentle spring rain. But at ~250 points, it is a large chunk of your army. The rhinos, however, cost very few points, and add a lot of mobility to your army.

Managed to grab some very cheap sniper scouts on ole eBay, so will paint them up... and my Codex has arrived! Lots to read.

Think i'll settle on a Libby from the Codex and then get down to my local shop for a game or two.

And thanks for the advice, two Rhinos makes more sense right now. 250 points for a LR is a lot given the army sizes i'll be playing at.

Figured i'd post an update about my SM army, and fish for a little advice!

After reading the Codex I settled on making a successor chapter for the Black Templars. I've played a couple of games and much prefer the assault play to shooting... but shooting feels quite, quite strong.

So my army is;
A Crusader squad (10 initiates, 5 neophytes) - all pistols and chainswords. Couple of power swords in there. The Emperor's Champion is with them. They have a dedicated Land Raider Crusader - it's a lovely bucket of melee hurt.

10 Tact Marines, combat squading into two five man squads. Heavy flamer in each.

5 Termi's with lighting claws and a Chaplain in Terminator armour. These guys don't currently have any kind of transport, as it seems I can't put them in drop pods and they can't deep strike? So i'm running them up the field. It's not too bad. But I don't want to pay the points for another LR for them, nor do I want to pay the points to increase the squad's size to justify a LR. ~650 points for 10 terminators and a LR seems way, way too much?

5 man Sternguard squad - 4 meltas and a heavy flamer, with a dedicated Razorback transport.

5 man Jump Marine Assault squad.

5 man Sniper Scout squad which I use early to get a little shooting done.

A Vindicator and a Lascannon Predator.


Stuff I have that i'm not using right now;
Dreadnaught
Assault Terminators
3 Part Bike squad


I don't think this is a cheesy list, and i'm not stacking anything in particular - I like taking a bit of everything. What I am finding is that by the time i'm effective, with a strong assault focused force, i've lost quite a lot. I've been using my Snipers and Jump marines as a way of getting some early damage out while I push up the board.


I *like* the crusader squad in the Land Raider as I can assault straight from it. So are the terminators a waste? 200 points is a lot, I might be better served by another Crusader squad and a drop pod or two? I'm not sure drop pods are a good fit here as if i'm reading the rules correctly I can't assault on arrival (from reserve)? I'm also a little concern that moving stuff into reserve just reduces the shootable targets on the board.

One thing I don't want to do is counter strong shooting with more shooting - i'd like to keep an assault focus if possible. So any suggestions on what could be picked up, or cut from the list in favour of other units would be appreciated.

The other issue i'm having is that my highest wound is 2 - so my Champion or Chaplain need to be my Warlord. Anyone have any experience with Helbrecht or Grimmy? They're quite expensive on points.


Cheers all!

Black templars can't take heavy flamers in tacticals, only Blood Angels have the options.

Makumba wrote:
Black templars can't take heavy flamers in tacticals, only Blood Angels have the options.

Gah, wrote Flamer meant Bolter, my bad.

Amayasu wrote:
5 Termi's with lighting claws and a Chaplain in Terminator armour. These guys don't currently have any kind of transport, as it seems I can't put them in drop pods and they can't deep strike? So i'm running them up the field. It's not too bad. But I don't want to pay the points for another LR for them, nor do I want to pay the points to increase the squad's size to justify a LR. ~650 points for 10 terminators and a LR seems way, way too much?

Check the "Armour" section of the "Armoury of the Space Marines" part of the Codex - Terminator Armour grants the model Deep Strike. Note that it also gives them Bulky, meaning you can't fit 10 in a Land Raider (of any variety outside of Forgeworld maybe).

 Quanar wrote:

Amayasu wrote:
5 Termi's with lighting claws and a Chaplain in Terminator armour. These guys don't currently have any kind of transport, as it seems I can't put them in drop pods and they can't deep strike? So i'm running them up the field. It's not too bad. But I don't want to pay the points for another LR for them, nor do I want to pay the points to increase the squad's size to justify a LR. ~650 points for 10 terminators and a LR seems way, way too much?

Check the "Armour" section of the "Armoury of the Space Marines" part of the Codex - Terminator Armour grants the model Deep Strike. Note that it also gives them Bulky, meaning you can't fit 10 in a Land Raider (of any variety outside of Forgeworld maybe).

!!

You Sir have just made my day. I never thought for a second it would be a property of the armour, but that makes perfect sense - I can DS my Chaplain, too.

Thanks, that actually helps a ton.