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Made in au
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Erebor

So I've never really been very interested in Space Wolves before, but hearing the hate and reading another thread had sparked my interest. I read up on them on the Lexicanum and they seem pretty cool. Am I missing something?

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Possibly. What hate are you referring to?

 
   
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Space Wolves are a very, very polarizing chapter in terms of fluff.

Depending on your perspective and personal interpretations, they are either paragons of genuine heroism in a setting devoid of heroes, or irresponsible symbols of selfishness, who put themselves ahead of the rest of their team at all times regardless of cost.

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Afterward, Curran killed a guy in the parking lot with a trident.
 
   
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Erebor

 insaniak wrote:
Possibly. What hate are you referring to?

Well, I can't excacly pinpoint any examples I just know there's a bad vibe about them. As I said I was never really interesed. I'm guessing it's the fact they are selfish? I'm really just trying to learn what hate there is.

The Emperor's Redemption: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/586715.page

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the Space Wolves, much like the Ultramarines, are one of the big poster boy armies. they do heroic stuff, get lots of attention, and in the case of the space wolves have some things that sets them VERY MUCH apart from other Marines. as such some people aren't particularly big fans of em.

Some of it is justified as if you don't get into em some of their stuff is a bit silly. (mind you this criticsm can be leveled at anything in 40k) some of it as the useal resentment some people have in any setting for the "popular guys"

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
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 Da Ork Killa wrote:
 insaniak wrote:
Possibly. What hate are you referring to?

Well, I can't excacly pinpoint any examples I just know there's a bad vibe about them. As I said I was never really interesed. I'm guessing it's the fact they are selfish? I'm really just trying to learn what hate there is.


They are a pretty good at getting hate.

They act super humanish and try to feel for the little guy all while murdering others just because.

Drinking and being overall goofy and cheesy in that they are just super badass space Vikings/furries (thanks canis)
Chasing a semi loyal legion into the warp and solidifying their chaos conversion as well as their "psykers are bad, cept ours mkay cuz not really psykers" gets people going

I personally think its pretty funny the amount of rawbutts about some fictional dudes and tiny plastic soldiers but I know what you are talking about. Before the new dex dropped I had some heated arguments with people on these threads who had legitimate vendettas and grudges with space wolves for years it was insane

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The hate usually comes from how they were during 5th Edition. During 5th they were one of the top codexies. Going into 6th they dwindled down due to the fliers and such. But they still retained a fair amount of strength due to the anti-psyker power of the Rune Priest & the power of Jaws of the World Wolf pyshic power they had which destroyed Carnifexes & other low initiative based things..

As of right now, with their 7th edition codex, they aren't the same as they used to be. They were lost some of their fancy tricks and toys while those that remained were redone and had been brought in line with every other marine codex. This is all gameplay stuff however.


Fluff wise they are, as Curran12 had said, polarized when compared to other marine chapters. Their fluff is where another part of the hate comes from as well. For you see some view them as hypocritical in terms of their beliefs even though in the world of 40K everyone is really to an extent.

Additionally as Curran had said they hero like in terms of they will fight anyone to defend their lesser man/comrades. So much so they are willing to spark fighting with the Inquisition. which they have on a few occasions. Because of this some believe that the fact they get away with this without being labeled as traitors is stupid and makes them not like the wolves even though the Inquisition themselves aren't the best examples of human beings and goodness of mankind. Heck other marine chapters aren't the brightest gems in terms of morality and such yet they can be praised for their deeds.


Then there are those who don't like the idea of space viking werewolves. The naming of their units, the concepts they bring along with the very argued over Thunderwolf Calvary which are Space Marines riding giant wolves who could tear up a tank. Why do people hate that last one? Because clearly they don't know what cool is if you ask me but that's my personal opinion.

"We may be few, and our enemies many. Yet so long as there remains one of us still fighting, one who still rages in the name of justice and truth, then by the Allfather, the galaxy shall yet know hope."

-Jarl Ragnar Blackmane

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I actually really like space wolves and really don't understand the hate either. I mean sure its a little ridiculous at times, but who isnt?
   
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Have you seen Logan Clause? Have you read the fluff for murderfang (or just the chapters fluff in general)? I play space wolves and think they're ridiculous and the fluff reads like something that was written by a 30 year old neckbeard living in grandma's basement and wearing one of those t shirts with wolves howling at the moon printed on the front. I could've written better background for an army in middle school.
   
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Their codex was and to some extent, is one of the more favored.
The "thunder wolf of fang of the wolf pack of the All-father" naming is getting a bit much with gear and units.
They are considered the more red-neck of the marines and were the attack dog of the emperor.
What was cool at it's core is becoming a parody with what GW has been adding on: there is such a thing as too much wolfiness.
I would not mind more Viking, but can do without the sleigh.

<edit> It would not surprise if they on occasion paint themselves green and go drink with the Orks.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/03/05 07:02:26


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 Talizvar wrote:

<edit> It would not surprise if they on occasion paint themselves green and go drink with the Orks.


There is a scene in one of the black library books in which Ragnar and pals get into a truk race with some orks while disguised as orks. Close enough to count?


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Wyldhunt wrote:
 Talizvar wrote:

<edit> It would not surprise if they on occasion paint themselves green and go drink with the Orks.


There is a scene in one of the black library books in which Ragnar and pals get into a truk race with some orks while disguised as orks. Close enough to count?


Close enough for orks
   
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I think SW are often criticised for being "furries". GW focuses too much on the wolves. We don't want more furry animals, we want more Viking stuff.
   
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natpri771 wrote:
I think SW are often criticised for being "furries". GW focuses too much on the wolves. We don't want more furry animals, we want more Viking stuff.


well yeah but that'd require research. as opposed to "wolfy mcwolf wolf, and his clawwolf!"

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
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Even though I collect Space Wolves I don't like the excessive wolf naming with Wolfiness Wolfness of McWolfenstien. I mean come on, Murderfang with his Murderclaws of Murderlust, that's just crazy.

Beyond that, people hate Space Wolves because they get away with doing stuff that anyone else in 40k wouldn't, they are often portrayed as morally good heroes in a universe where no one is the good guy. I think overall they are often portrayed as "Space Marines but better" and the fluff is often quite silly.
   
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They've got a murderface with murderfists! Not wolfy.
   
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 Da Ork Killa wrote:
So I've never really been very interested in Space Wolves before, but hearing the hate and reading another thread had sparked my interest. I read up on them on the Lexicanum and they seem pretty cool. Am I missing something?
They've got a ton of potential to be cool.

The problem is their fluff is seen as absolutely awful by many, on three different levels. Not only is it simply written badly quite often, reading like a bad fanfic, but they just try to be too many contradictory, often absurd, things at once

They try to be cunning tacticians hiding their brilliance behind a savage facade, but they're still totally savages. They're incredible masters of combined armed tactics, yet still raging screaming berzerkers. They're deadly serious and dour executioners, but they're totally party bro's who'll crash a thunderhawk for giggles. They're outstanding heavy weapons specialists and armored warfare strategists who can annihilate huge numbers of enemy tanks from afar, but they're still totally close combat specialists. Their psykers are totally not sorcerors who draw power from the warp, they totally draw their powers from the energies for fenris. They look out for the little guy and are into justice & honor but are totally ruthless killers who will commit any sort of atrocity to win. Etc ad nauseum.


Finally, they take their theme beyond just "theme" and into the realm of parody, where it the suspension of disbelief stops. Stuff like fluff that talks about firing artillery by smell (then running forward to watch it), Marines riding Wolves, Logan riding a wolf-powered mini-longboat, Wolf Guard riding Wolves wielding Wolf-claws and bearing Wolf Tooth necklaces, etc.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/05 07:42:30


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natpri771 wrote:
I think SW are often criticised for being "furries". GW focuses too much on the wolves. We don't want more furry animals, we want more Viking stuff.


As an Astartes player of more mundane chapter, I find the SW chapter a gang of guys who wish to be more special than they already are, and with a wrong way. In earlier editions, they felt more vikings than canine fetishists.
As a furry, I reject the concept of SW being furries. They're more like hairy, drunken, anti-authoritarian kemonomimi rejects on crack.

They'd definitely be cooler with moar viking, less wolfy crap.

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To summarize each person hates them for different reasons. Each person in their own right takes to each codex in a different way. if you talk to a passionate person they can inspire you about it. While those who don't like the army or find it's concepts stupid will discourage you from it. it's just like a video game in that sense. Hear negative stuff from those who don't like it you'll get a sense of not liking it. Whereas be around those who like it and you mite find yourself liking it.

in short everyone has their own opinion as you've seen. These are the reasons people hate the wolves. But some of those reasons are why people like em. All armies and such in the 40K world are subject to their own stupidity much like the wolves. Essentially if you posted a thing asking for people to tare every other army/faction a new one you'll be met with the same level of stuff as you've seen here.

if you want to see the good in them then read the fluff to each character. Yes the naming of the units and such are based off of wolf stuff. Yes they have an insignia(s) that are wolf based. But look at Blood Angels & Dark Angels. Look at Grey Knights even! They are covered in whatever their chapter is all about and even have names for their units and what naught after it. Each of them have their own specialist things and it's built into space marines to being able to conduct multiple types of warfare so using such things as "They try to be different stuff" is only taken lightly since when you look at other chapters they essentially have the same things as well, different companies specializing in different aspects. Hence why the wolves only really suffer from having a lot of Wolf styled things but when you look at their structure, read their full fluff and how they conduct themselves they do have norse costumes along with having wolf stuff. They are very viking like but they are vikings in the future where bows and arrows and other stuff are replaced with guns. Not every viking wielded a sword and axe. There were horsemen, shipmen & archers. Those who specialized in naval combat & raids where others favored ambushes and what naught. Which the space wolves all do as well. They have their roots and really the hate is taken at face value.

Any other chapter could try and do what the wolves have done in their fluff. They easily could! it's just each chapter is different and handles things in their own manner. Also they are heroes in a galaxy that doesn't really have what we know as heroes anymore. Which makes them great. They attack ruthlessly against those who bring their wrath by performing deeds that are viewed as heretical and dishonorable. They meet the foes of humanity with as much animosity as required because otherwise they'd just be Khorne Beserkers/World Eaters. if you take it all personally and really hate how they are then fine judge them how you see it. But if you accept the silly and wacky things they do(which everything in 40K has silly stuff so really) then they truly do become fun and cool. is being silly a bad thing? is being fun a bad thing and makes something unlikeable? if so then I guess a lot of stuff in life is bad and unlikeable by that logic.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/05 08:47:58


"We may be few, and our enemies many. Yet so long as there remains one of us still fighting, one who still rages in the name of justice and truth, then by the Allfather, the galaxy shall yet know hope."

-Jarl Ragnar Blackmane

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 Tigramans wrote:
I reject the concept of SW being furries. They're more like hairy, drunken, anti-authoritarian kemonomimi rejects on crack.


Sig'd.



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 Wolf Lord Kevin wrote:
To summarize each person hates them for different reasons. Each person in their own right takes to each codex in a different way. if you talk to a passionate person they can inspire you about it. While those who don't like the army or find it's concepts stupid will discourage you from it. it's just like a video game in that sense. Hear negative stuff from those who don't like it you'll get a sense of not liking it. Whereas be around those who like it and you mite find yourself liking it.

in short everyone has their own opinion as you've seen. These are the reasons people hate the wolves. But some of those reasons are why people like em. All armies and such in the 40K world are subject to their own stupidity much like the wolves. Essentially if you posted a thing asking for people to tare every other army/faction a new one you'll be met with the same level of stuff as you've seen here.


I dunno, the Wolves do make it exceptionally easy...
   
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 ImAGeek wrote:
 Wolf Lord Kevin wrote:
To summarize each person hates them for different reasons. Each person in their own right takes to each codex in a different way. if you talk to a passionate person they can inspire you about it. While those who don't like the army or find it's concepts stupid will discourage you from it. it's just like a video game in that sense. Hear negative stuff from those who don't like it you'll get a sense of not liking it. Whereas be around those who like it and you mite find yourself liking it.

in short everyone has their own opinion as you've seen. These are the reasons people hate the wolves. But some of those reasons are why people like em. All armies and such in the 40K world are subject to their own stupidity much like the wolves. Essentially if you posted a thing asking for people to tare every other army/faction a new one you'll be met with the same level of stuff as you've seen here.


I dunno, the Wolves do make it exceptionally easy...


What is easy comes down to your own personal tastes. To me the wackyest and silliest fluff in 40K goes to the Orks. Does this mean they are bad because of it? Heck no! silliness doesn't mean something is bad. Those who are a bit too serious will see it as bad. Those who take the Grim Dark future seriously will see it as bad. I also know that Orks can be insane and scary much like everything in 40k. it just comes down tot he good old "Eye of the beholder" thing.

"We may be few, and our enemies many. Yet so long as there remains one of us still fighting, one who still rages in the name of justice and truth, then by the Allfather, the galaxy shall yet know hope."

-Jarl Ragnar Blackmane

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Because they took the Wolf stuff too far. They're no longer Vikings at all, they're just the Werewolf/Furry Space Marine Chapter.

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They are the special snowflake of spacemainres:

No legions - they have legions
No psykers (during heresy era) - they had psykers
No pillage and rape - rarr vikings!

Also Wolfy my Santaclaws on a wolfsledge drawn by wolfdeer weilding his wolfaxe and clawfist with wolf armor and wolf-wolf-wolf-wolf is a bit sad.

 
   
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Not to mention they can get drunk.



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 Vaktathi wrote:
They've got a ton of potential to be cool.

The problem is their fluff is seen as absolutely awful by many, on three different levels. Not only is it simply written badly quite often, reading like a bad fanfic, but they just try to be too many contradictory, often absurd, things at once

(...)

Finally, they take their theme beyond just "theme" and into the realm of parody, where it the suspension of disbelief stops. Stuff like fluff that talks about firing artillery by smell (then running forward to watch it), Marines riding Wolves, Logan riding a wolf-powered mini-longboat, Wolf Guard riding Wolves wielding Wolf-claws and bearing Wolf Tooth necklaces, etc.


For me, this.

I don't hate Space Wolves. I'm just dissappointed that considering the huge potential the army has in terms of design, how utterly underwhelming their development has been in the hands of incompetent writers and designers.

The "space vikings army" theme could have been developed towards a "viking" flavour. Nordic-esque designs for armors (without horns please, let horns be a chaos thing), some huscarl shields for a certain siege specialist unit, focus on the sagas, etc. Instead, being the masters of subtlety they are, the writers and designers chose to go with the "wolf" theme and take it to such a ridiculous extent their fluff effectively reads as low-quality fanfiction written by not specially bright high schoolers (it could be argued the same applies to everything Matt Ward has written as well, but this is not the thread for that).

So instead of cool and awe-inspiring Space Vikings we have silly goofy wolf marines mounted on giant wolves and striking with their wolf claws while "murder, murder, murder" is murderously shouted by the murderfang coming from the wolfy behind.

It's appalling, to say the least.

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 Tigramans wrote:
natpri771 wrote:
I think SW are often criticised for being "furries". GW focuses too much on the wolves. We don't want more furry animals, we want more Viking stuff.


As an Astartes player of more mundane chapter, I find the SW chapter a gang of guys who wish to be more special than they already are, and with a wrong way. In earlier editions, they felt more vikings than canine fetishists.
As a furry, I reject the concept of SW being furries. They're more like hairy, drunken, anti-authoritarian kemonomimi rejects on crack.

They'd definitely be cooler with moar viking, less wolfy crap.

Isn't that japanese for "fox spirit person" or something?

*Insert witty and/or interesting statement here* 
   
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kemonomimi means "animal ears", and refers to the phenomena of people wearing these and similar items (and, in anime, characters who naturally have animal ears instead of human ones).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/05 13:05:35




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I hate space wolves only because every "that guy" I've ever run into started as a space wolf player. \o.o/

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