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One of the rules of our store is that if you wish to compete in any of our organized events, all models need to be painted. At the end of a game, any models that aren't painted count as casualties, AKA won't count as controlling objectives and unpainted warlord will result in "slay the warlord".

Is this all that uncommon of a rule, or is it reasonable? In general we don't allow proxies in organized events (to avoid confusion and possible trickery/cheating), and our store owner has the rule about painting because a lot of people apparently used to play with unpainted miniatures. The rule is designed to "encourage everyone to paint their models, because a game isn't as good if you're playing against a bunch of grey pieces of plastic".

Do any tournaments have any rules like this, and do you agree with this idea? You're fine to use whatever in casual games and you can still play in events (at a disadvantage, so no one plays with unpainted stuff though).

I kind of like the idea, but I know that a decent number of people go to other stores because of this (there's one about half an hour away, and one an hour and a half away). I mean, of the few times I've been to the other store I've played against tau suits that didn't have any weapons attached but all had different weapons, and against a completely unpainted army of marines that had allies from different chapters.....

So long as he's not being being a dick about it, I see no harm in it. Everyone prefers playing painted minis, and it's not like anyone is actually stopped from playing because of it.

Of course, if the store were to outright ban unpainted models I'd say that was pushing it, but so far it sounds reasonable enough.

You will often hear people enforcing a 3-color minimum. So more then just primer. Part of the joy of the game is watching two well painted armies clash. Having one side be bare plastic, or half built, takes away from that. Not that I’d turn down a game, but it is less enjoyable.

In the store-run tournaments I've seen, the only penalty for unpainted models is that you will be unable to win the overall grand prize, as you will obviously have zero points in your painting score. This still encourages people to paint their armies, without actually excluding those who have not.

I've bee going to tournaments for about 15 years now, and I've never been to one that allowed unpainted models.

For tournaments and events i think it's reasonable for stores to expect people to field fully painted models and all the stores i know of have these kind of rules. Since it's a special event it just looks better to see painted armies and such sometimes photos of the event may be used to promote the store on social media so you don't want a bunch of unpainted half finished models around.

For casual games or games where somebody new is learning nobody really minds if models are unpainted so it's not like it's unfair to new players or anything. There are some stores that are really strict on this stuff i think sometimes can be too far but under special circumstances like events i think it's reasonable.

I think it is a great idea. Playing grey armies is bland amd there is no immersion.

This is an awesome idea. I should bring it up at my store - though we don't seem to have a problem with grey armies around here; people have more respect for their armies than that.

Sounds kind of dickish, honestly, for a store level event. I agree with "encourage people to paint", but I don't have time to paint more than 100-200 points per month if I want to play any games. Telling me "your unpainted models count as casualties" discourages me from playing at all since my game play is being punished by my desire to have other things in my life. We're there to play a game, right? I put an honest effort into painting my army but if you're going to start nicking game points for something that's not part of the rules I'll just play somewhere else.

It honestly sounds like a bunch of people whining that other people aren't indulging their aesthetic desires. Can I nick points if your paint schemes don't involve at least 2 highlight layers and a wash? After all, lazy paint jobs break immersion, too.

lustigjh wrote:
Sounds kind of dickish, honestly, for a store level event. I agree with "encourage people to paint", but I don't have time to paint more than 100-200 points per month if I want to play any games. Telling me "your unpainted models count as casualties" discourages me from playing at all since my game play is being punished by my desire to have other things in my life. We're there to play a game, right? I put an honest effort into painting my army but if you're going to start nicking game points for something that's not part of the rules I'll just play somewhere else.

It honestly sounds like a bunch of people whining that other people aren't indulging their aesthetic desires. Can I nick points if your paint schemes don't involve at least 2 highlight layers and a wash? After all, lazy paint jobs break immersion, too.

If you've been playing 40k for more than 3 months, you can field a 500 point army pretty well, and even in one month you could field a kill-team for a KT game!

And, as the OP mentioned, you wouldn't have to play at that store. If your life is really so busy that you have no time to yourself at all, then I suggest you are perhaps too busy. Alone time is some of the more important time for a human, psychologically.

I've been spending my time and money doing the part of the hobby that I enjoy. Building and playing the game. Don't even own a can of spray paint anymore and to be honest just hate painting. And since I can't afford getting my armies commissioned that sort of rule would drive me away from ever playing at that store. I'll happily take my toys and go to another sandbox. Having another person demand that I do a part of the hobby I dislike is ridiculous. My models are (mostly. Still got a couple proxies I'm doing away with) WYSIWYG in gray or bought painted from ebay. If that's not good enough for your little store games then I have better places to be.

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
I've been spending my time and money doing the part of the hobby that I enjoy. Building and playing the game. Don't even own a can of spray paint anymore and to be honest just hate painting. And since I can't afford getting my armies commissioned that sort of rule would drive me away from ever playing at that store. I'll happily take my toys and go to another sandbox. Having another person demand that I do a part of the hobby I dislike is ridiculous. My models are (mostly. Still got a couple proxies I'm doing away with) WYSIWYG in gray or bought painted from ebay. If that's not good enough for your little store games then I have better places to be.

That's a fine attitude to have. For those of us that like playing with painted armies, we won't miss you.

Though I'm sure the store owner would like your business, but I'm not him, so I won't try to get you to stay.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
If you've been playing 40k for more than 3 months, you can field a 500 point army pretty well, and even in one month you could field a kill-team for a KT game!

Sure, but if my store isn't running kill team, I'm SOL. Who's going to want to limit themselves to kill team if they can play a real game?

If your life is really so busy that you have no time to yourself at all, then I suggest you are perhaps too busy. Alone time is some of the more important time for a human, psychologically.

That's not what I said. I have enough alone time but if I spent it all painting I'd never get to play anyway and I'd be single and out of shape on top of that.

Ultimately, the policy suggested in the OP is going to end up discouraging growth of the community as people simply find somewhere nicer to play or opt out altogether.

Prefered Enemy: Unpainted Miniatures was a thing here for a while in a couple of tournies and it worked well, with people still fielding some stuff that wan't finished, but most fielding fully painted armies. Most people still felt a bit bad about taking advantage of it though, so it went away and many tournies resulted in a flood of grey plastic again.

For pick up games though, playing against the grey marines was and still is just fine.

I don't agree with it, but they are entitled to decide it as the store operators.

I'm a terrible painter. I've disliked painting since I first tried it, while I enjoy playing and making models.

You would likely prefer it if I was playing with unpainted, due to the quality of my painting (IMO).


I love seeing painted armies, playing against painted models, etc.

However, I'm not a painter, and people should not force me to do something I dislike. (I've tried multiple times, and have never been okay with what I do. I'd rather see gray than my painting)

I think its fine for tournaments. In casuals, I don't care whether they are painted or not. I'm playing in a store tournament soon and they require a bare 3 color minimum, which is fine, but they don't allow proxies. This sucks, because some of the GW models suck and I'd rather use others (see Beast of Nurgle).

Honestly, I don't mind playing pickup games against unpainted armies from time to time, but I've devoted what little free time I have into painting my armies to a high standard, I'd expect the person across the table from me to attempt the same. If it's not all painted, that's fine... at least put forth an effort. That being said, I would never play a tournament, I do not see this as a competitive game.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
I've been spending my time and money doing the part of the hobby that I enjoy. Building and playing the game. Don't even own a can of spray paint anymore and to be honest just hate painting. And since I can't afford getting my armies commissioned that sort of rule would drive me away from ever playing at that store. I'll happily take my toys and go to another sandbox. Having another person demand that I do a part of the hobby I dislike is ridiculous. My models are (mostly. Still got a couple proxies I'm doing away with) WYSIWYG in gray or bought painted from ebay. If that's not good enough for your little store games then I have better places to be.

That's a fine attitude to have. For those of us that like playing with painted armies, we won't miss you.

Though I'm sure the store owner would like your business, but I'm not him, so I won't try to get you to stay.

Wow, you sound like an awesome person to play with.... Im sure those non painters will be guttered to miss out on playing you too!

I think i know why your store needs to enforce painting, sounds like you guys dont understand the encouragement part.



For those who hate painting (I used to too) just force yourself to do it for a few weeks. Even for an hour every so often. Once you see what you are capable of you may start to enjoy it. I went from spray painting my tanks the base colour then doing some details to painting diamond patterns, blending, highlighting and heaps more within 3-4 months once I found out how to paint and im still improving.

I suggest setting up an area to paint in and have it dedicated to painting. Its easier to paint when you dont need to set up/pack up every time.

Manage your time. Either try leave no day without paining, or no week (no week is better, means you can exercise etc but no day means you will get it done very fast) and make yourself do it.

Research and improve. Have a youtube tutorial playing as you paint and copy it. Its easy for people to try paint then wonder what they are doing wrong and assume they suck which is common. Its harder to see why its not working and improve but its something that needs to be done.

Then when you start spitting out beautiful minis dont give the guys who once were a pin because you had unpainted stuff a game. Their attitude should not be rewarded.

But I cant stress having a painting space enough. Once that is set up it makes the job a lot easier.


I dont agree with having rules to enforce painting. It makes people rush their stuff and instead of improving how to paint it usually makes them find the easiest and fastest way to get it over with. Like spray painting the base colour on your stuff then doing minor work here and there (I have since sold all the evidence)... The best results come from encouragement and teaching when it comes to painting. After all its care and dedication that makes a good paint job.

 Swastakowey wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
I've been spending my time and money doing the part of the hobby that I enjoy. Building and playing the game. Don't even own a can of spray paint anymore and to be honest just hate painting. And since I can't afford getting my armies commissioned that sort of rule would drive me away from ever playing at that store. I'll happily take my toys and go to another sandbox. Having another person demand that I do a part of the hobby I dislike is ridiculous. My models are (mostly. Still got a couple proxies I'm doing away with) WYSIWYG in gray or bought painted from ebay. If that's not good enough for your little store games then I have better places to be.

That's a fine attitude to have. For those of us that like playing with painted armies, we won't miss you.

Though I'm sure the store owner would like your business, but I'm not him, so I won't try to get you to stay.

Wow, you sound like an awesome person to play with.... Im sure those non painters will be guttered to miss out on playing you too!

I think i know why your store needs to enforce painting, sounds like you guys dont understand the encouragement part.



For those who hate painting (I used to too) just force yourself to do it for a few weeks. Even for an hour every so often. Once you see what you are capable of you may start to enjoy it. I went from spray painting my tanks the base colour then doing some details to painting diamond patterns, blending, highlighting and heaps more within 3-4 months once I found out how to paint and im still improving.

I suggest setting up an area to paint in and have it dedicated to painting. Its easier to paint when you dont need to set up/pack up every time.

Manage your time. Either try leave no day without paining, or no week (no week is better, means you can exercise etc but no day means you will get it done very fast) and make yourself do it.

Research and improve. Have a youtube tutorial playing as you paint and copy it. Its easy for people to try paint then wonder what they are doing wrong and assume they suck which is common. Its harder to see why its not working and improve but its something that needs to be done.

Then when you start spitting out beautiful minis dont give the guys who once were a pin because you had unpainted stuff a game. Their attitude should not be rewarded.

But I cant stress having a painting space enough. Once that is set up it makes the job a lot easier.


I dont agree with having rules to enforce painting. It makes people rush their stuff and instead of improving how to paint it usually makes them find the easiest and fastest way to get it over with. Like spray painting the base colour on your stuff then doing minor work here and there (I have since sold all the evidence)... The best results come from encouragement and teaching when it comes to painting. After all its care and dedication that makes a good paint job.

This. I don't understand the hate towards unpainted models. If you want to encourage people, do it, but don't force them paint things they don't want to.

lustigjh wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
If you've been playing 40k for more than 3 months, you can field a 500 point army pretty well, and even in one month you could field a kill-team for a KT game!

Sure, but if my store isn't running kill team, I'm SOL. Who's going to want to limit themselves to kill team if they can play a real game?

If your life is really so busy that you have no time to yourself at all, then I suggest you are perhaps too busy. Alone time is some of the more important time for a human, psychologically.

That's not what I said. I have enough alone time but if I spent it all painting I'd never get to play anyway and I'd be single and out of shape on top of that.

Ultimately, the policy suggested in the OP is going to end up discouraging growth of the community as people simply find somewhere nicer to play or opt out altogether.

Or you spend the time to paint it all, then AFTER you can play whenever where ever with a fully painted army.

 Desubot wrote:

lustigjh wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
If you've been playing 40k for more than 3 months, you can field a 500 point army pretty well, and even in one month you could field a kill-team for a KT game!

Sure, but if my store isn't running kill team, I'm SOL. Who's going to want to limit themselves to kill team if they can play a real game?

If your life is really so busy that you have no time to yourself at all, then I suggest you are perhaps too busy. Alone time is some of the more important time for a human, psychologically.

That's not what I said. I have enough alone time but if I spent it all painting I'd never get to play anyway and I'd be single and out of shape on top of that.

Ultimately, the policy suggested in the OP is going to end up discouraging growth of the community as people simply find somewhere nicer to play or opt out altogether.

Or you spend the time to paint it all, then AFTER you can play whenever where ever with a fully painted army.

Lol. I suppose I could also put money directly the registers at my local GW and skip the middleman all together

"Lol. I suppose I could also put money directly the registers at my local GW and skip the middleman all together "

Wait what?

 Swastakowey wrote:
I dont agree with having rules to enforce painting. It makes people rush their stuff and instead of improving how to paint it usually makes them find the easiest and fastest way to get it over with. Like spray painting the base colour on your stuff then doing minor work here and there (I have since sold all the evidence)... The best results come from encouragement and teaching when it comes to painting. After all its care and dedication that makes a good paint job.

My first batch of Deathwing that I wanted to play the following day were literally just white primer spray with a sepia wash over them.... you'd be surprised by the results

I did, however, go back and do a base and layer the following week to get that nice bone color, they're now my best looking minis. Honestly the only reason it was okay doing that is that the wash doesn't really hurt anything if you do a base over it though, it's the only reason I was willing to cheat. Never rush actual painting, as you're guaranteed to make mistakes that will take longer to fix than if you had done it right to start.

Honestly though, can't agree more with spending a little time each week to paint some. Even if you just do base coats with some detailing (insignias, eyes, etc.) it really doesn't take that long. I'm at the point that in an hour I can have 5 marines playable (although I do go back later to layer/wash). My only request is that you don't do the coat hanger in a paint bucket technique, as I have actually seen ultramarines done this way

In all store run 40K tournaments I can recall there was a 3 color minimum.

Just remember that if you really want to be lazy, a Black Base coat + Flesh + Bolt gun metal is 3 colors

 Desubot wrote:
"Lol. I suppose I could also put money directly the registers at my local GW and skip the middleman all together "

Wait what?

You're confused, and given your previous post, that's not surprising, lol.


I dunno, I figure I'll just refuse to play people who haven't converted their models. After all, converting is part of the hobby and playing against people who assemble their models right off the sprue ruins the fun of the hobby. I mean, who would spend all that money and have such a boring army?

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
"Lol. I suppose I could also put money directly the registers at my local GW and skip the middleman all together "

Wait what?

You're confused, and given your previous post, that's not surprising, lol.


I dunno, I figure I'll just refuse to play people who haven't converted their models. After all, converting is part of the hobby and playing against people who assemble their models right off the sprue ruins the fun of the hobby. I mean, who would spend all that money and have such a boring army?

Eh should of selectively quoted to what i was committing at. Also there appears to be a "in" missing in his post which i just figured out where it goes.

Still a gakky excuse not the paint stuff.

I don't think it's all that uncommon, although I don't know of any other stores that require fully painted models, and I've never heard of an event having official penalties for playing unpainted.

Adepticon is a whole convention which has a fully painted requirement, although I've never heard of anyone being denied a game because of the odd un-painted piece. But I think that's because you don't see any violation of the requirement in any big events...pick-up and informal games like PP's Iron Arena (which are pretty much pick-up games) you'll see are more relaxed.

I don't think it's an issue to most people, but for those that have a problem with it, they have a pretty big problem. I'm one that doesn't get a lot of time to paint my stuff, so when it comes to Adepticon, I don't enter the events that I know unpainted figures will be a problem for. I have access to local events with no requirements to play in when I feel like it.

I can see that I'd be pretty miffed if the only store in town had this requirement, though. I know painted looks a lot better and is more fun, but playing at all is better than having a bunch of figures sitting around not getting played.

lustigjh wrote:
Sounds kind of dickish, honestly, for a store level event. I agree with "encourage people to paint", but I don't have time to paint more than 100-200 points per month if I want to play any games. Telling me "your unpainted models count as casualties" discourages me from playing at all since my game play is being punished by my desire to have other things in my life. We're there to play a game, right? I put an honest effort into painting my army but if you're going to start nicking game points for something that's not part of the rules I'll just play somewhere else.

It honestly sounds like a bunch of people whining that other people aren't indulging their aesthetic desires. Can I nick points if your paint schemes don't involve at least 2 highlight layers and a wash? After all, lazy paint jobs break immersion, too.

Sounds like the solution is to take all of the time that you would have spent playing, but now refuse to since you're discouraged for having unpainted models, and spend it painting the models so you can enjoy playing again.

 Desubot wrote:

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
"Lol. I suppose I could also put money directly the registers at my local GW and skip the middleman all together "

Wait what?

You're confused, and given your previous post, that's not surprising, lol.


I dunno, I figure I'll just refuse to play people who haven't converted their models. After all, converting is part of the hobby and playing against people who assemble their models right off the sprue ruins the fun of the hobby. I mean, who would spend all that money and have such a boring army?

Eh should of selectively quoted to what i was committing at. Also there appears to be a "in" missing in his post which i just figured out where it goes.

Still a gakky excuse not the paint stuff.

Why? There is literally no requirement in the rules to paint your models. Why is your enjoyment more important than your opponents?

Better question: Why can't you do you, let other players do them and just find a way to share a table with someone that doesn't disrupt the game? Does the color of a model tell you what gun it has? Does the color of the model affect the game in any way, shape or form? Does color make the other player more skilled? More friendly? More commited to playing and enjoying the game that involves throwing dice? (Which also can be colored. Do you require that too?)

The only reason for demanding or expecting painted miniatures is a selfish one. Expecting clear modelling differences, that affects gameplay. Expecting appropriate bases, that affects gameplay. Gray models, that affects your eyes and mine don't care one bit but the game is not reduced in any way. I roll for the same numbers with a gray as I do for a blue one or a red one. Any place that demands that is not a friendly place that I want to play at. Any PLAYER that demands it from me can either paint them for me is not a friendly person I want to play across the table from. Encouragement is fine, demanding and punishing my gameplay for it is not.