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Made in us
Resentful Grot With a Plan





Seattle

Ok so I am a 40k ork player looking to start up a small WM army. I have looked at the models and really like the look of Aurora, Numen of Aerogenesis. Can someone help with a simple list that will work for this character?

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Made in us
Wraith






Welcome to 2d6 land.

Few starters from the other thread: I would recommend finding a PG and getting in demo games before committing to a faction. Someone in person can help guide you better than the Internet. Press Gangers are volunteers for PP who will help you get into the game and work through the barrier to entry.

Convergence is a very odd faction. They are the newest Warmachine faction, have the least number of releases, and include faction unique rules above and beyond what's normally required of a new player to use. I'm am not saying don't start with them, just you should realize that they are a different breed entirely and are very dependent on order of operations in terms of model/unit activation.

Aurora is even more weird in that she does very little of what Convergence is typically about, which is Vector (warjacks) efficiency. She is a "Dudespam" caster, think guard or orks, more bodies the better.

I'm not a convergence player, so I will leave the list building to others, but typical inclusions in convergence armies are the corollary, monitor, enigma foundries, and some sprinkled support. Aurora essentially requires three units of clockwork Angels and then some of the bigger dudes like reciprocators.

May not be a complete help, but I hope this is a start. Most beginner level games do not use units or Solos given their added complexity to learning just the base rules. The starter boxes are usually a good start and the Convergence box has one of their best casters with Syntherion in it.

Shine on, Kaldor Dayglow!
Not Ken Lobb

 
   
Made in us
Resentful Grot With a Plan





Seattle

Thanks for the feedback. I am hesitant to go with the starter box as I really just like this model and the Angles. When I started 40k I picked up some starter kit which I ended up not using half of because they did not work in the army I wanted to build. This time I would like to go in with the idea of what I want and invest in that direction.

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Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

While that's certainly true of 40k, its not quite as true with Warmachine.

With Warmachine, you want to learn the basics first and not have a bunch of extra complications. Aurora is a good warcaster, but she's a little more challenging to play. And nearly all the battle boxes have useful contents.

You will use the jacks in the starter with Aurora, they're the bread and butter for Convergence. Syntherion is a little simpler caster good for introductory games till you've gotten your sea legs. This game does have a steep learning curve, and Convergence is steeper than many others.

Plus you'll find yourself wanting a second warcaster soon anyway. And Syntherion is an amazing guy.

Once you're familiar with the rules and have played a good 10ish battle box games, then you can get Aurora and a couple units of Angels.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/06 22:44:42


Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Grey, I don't know I can really agree with you.

I would argue that most battleboxes do /not/ have contents that you will use that frequently. On what Warmachine side, only the Convergence and Cryx battleboxes have models you will use frequently, and even then it depends a lot on the army you decide to make. Does Aurora make use of those models so much? She is not really my poison, and I don't see her very often.

In hordes, you rarely see anything from the Circle or Legion boxes, and only half of what comes in the Skorne box.

Makinit, I would personally suggest playing a demo at a store in-person, then finding the kind of army you might be interested in playing. At that point, watch a few games, and see if you can proxy a match to get an even better feel for how things actually work out. Only after that point do I feel you should spend the cash. It's a great game, and the vast majority of models are useful, but not all models are useful in all armies, to say the least.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/06 23:09:49


 
   
Made in gb
Gun Mage





In the Chaos Wastes, Killing the Chaos scum of the north

Most commonly the battle box stuff isnt common is because the battle box stuff is very general, a toolbox caster, and multi purpose jacks, or cheap useful jacks, so people eventually like to leave the general realm and specailize more
Like with Cygnar replacing the Charger with a light 'Jack that fits the specific force (like a Hunter perhaps) But the Lancer is super common, and Chargers fit in so many forces they make a solid choice, and the ironclad is a great beaststick for its points.

On the list front, one thing I learned the hard way when I started is asking for random help should be taken with a grain of salt, as lists differ between metas, so you could have a Meat swimming in control casters, and someone who comes from a dudespam syngergy caster meta could tell you all this great advice which doesnt work for your area. (i,e I got advice from someone with a very different meta, and got roflstomped)

So I mirror what others have said, get some demo games, watch some battle reports (chain-attack do a great podcast) maybe try a few battlebox games, or even a few proxy games on VASSAL. Also have a look at Battlecollege, take it with a grain of salt of course but in general it is a good resource.

ALSO! Look at PP's own forums, specifically the faction forums

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/06 23:44:31


 Thortek wrote:


Was she hot? I'd totally bang a cougar for some minis.

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Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







 BoardroomHero wrote:
Grey, I don't know I can really agree with you.

I would argue that most battleboxes do /not/ have contents that you will use that frequently. On what Warmachine side, only the Convergence and Cryx battleboxes have models you will use frequently, and even then it depends a lot on the army you decide to make. Does Aurora make use of those models so much? She is not really my poison, and I don't see her very often.

In hordes, you rarely see anything from the Circle or Legion boxes, and only half of what comes in the Skorne box.

Makinit, I would personally suggest playing a demo at a store in-person, then finding the kind of army you might be interested in playing. At that point, watch a few games, and see if you can proxy a match to get an even better feel for how things actually work out. Only after that point do I feel you should spend the cash. It's a great game, and the vast majority of models are useful, but not all models are useful in all armies, to say the least.


Speaking as a player of Circle and Skorne I can tell you that the warlocks from the starter boxes are both incredible and the heavies in both are staples. You won't field every single item in the box every game but the starter boxes give you a solid introduction to the faction, a solid foundation to build on, and have models that will remain useful forever.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You won't play with every single model in the battlebox every game but every battlebox teaches you the core principles of how to play the faction and is a great and cost-effective way to start the game.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/06 23:52:12


Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using.
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Made in us
Cosmic Joe





I second Battle College and the PP forums. They really helped me get my legs. I play Convergence and tbey can be tricky but they are awesome with a lot of cool tricks. Angels, corollary and attunement servitors should be your first extra purchases.



Also, check out my history blog: Minimum Wage Historian, a fun place to check out history that often falls between the couch cushions. 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





 AnomanderRake wrote:

Speaking as a player of Circle and Skorne I can tell you that the warlocks from the starter boxes are both incredible and the heavies in both are staples. You won't field every single item in the box every game but the starter boxes give you a solid introduction to the faction, a solid foundation to build on, and have models that will remain useful forever.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You won't play with every single model in the battlebox every game but every battlebox teaches you the core principles of how to play the faction and is a great and cost-effective way to start the game.

Oh, the titan glad is awesome, but you'll rarely use the cyclops. And while feral warpwolves are alright in some builds, the majority of the time the stalker is the beast-of-choice. And with the lights being less-than-great, I feel that it's a pretty hard sell.

If he's trying to build a specific list (Aurora) to start out with, then I would really suggest starting not with more 'general' models that are useful some of the time, but with the models he actually wants to use right then. While (some of) the boxes can be quite good if you don't really know what you want, he seems to have a basic direction already (play with model x, which he seems to like the look of). I'm only urging caution for this reason.
   
Made in us
Combat Jumping Ragik






Just as a forewarning, the game isnt about giant mechs & beasts playing punch-out. A lot of the most effective builds run infantry heavy. I'm not saying this is a bad thing, just as a heads up. I got into it thinking I could run like 5 heavy jacks (because it fit pts wise) but quickly found I'd just get swarmed.

It is still a fun game & I hope you enjoy it, I just don't want you to have the wrong idea like I did (though I DO now enjoy the game, I'm not trying to dissuade you). Yes some caster run jack/beast heavy better than others but you will almost always want 2+ units of infantry for support.

Think of jacks like tanks. Theyre big and strong, hit hard and break lines but without support they will get swarmed and cracked open.

Trade rules: lower rep trades ships 1st. - I ship within 2 business days, if it will be longer I will contact you & explain. - I will NOT lie on customs forms, it's a felony, do not ask me to mark sales as "gifts". Free shipping applies to contiguous US states. 
   
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The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

 BoardroomHero wrote:
Grey, I don't know I can really agree with you.

I would argue that most battleboxes do /not/ have contents that you will use that frequently. On what Warmachine side, only the Convergence and Cryx battleboxes have models you will use frequently, and even then it depends a lot on the army you decide to make. Does Aurora make use of those models so much? She is not really my poison, and I don't see her very often.


I said "nearly all the battle boxes have useful contents". I didn't say they all did, nor did I say that every battle box was entirely composed of useful contents.

The Convergence box is, however, solid gold.

A Cipher is the staple Convergence heavy, and if you buy a second heavy kit you'll have two bodies for magnetization.

The Mitigator is excellent crowd and board control. It can auto kill infantry and knock down heavies.

The Galvanizer is a cheap repair-bot that also has a decent melee weapon.


Yes, all of the Horde's battle boxes do contain redundant duplicates, but only one of them has truly useless contents. The Argi in the circle box are just terrible. But its still well worth it to get Kaya and the Feral.

Every one of the Battle Boxes is useful. Sure, you don't need two Savages, Impalers, or 4 Shredders(but I see alot of lists with 2-3, and eThags loves him some Shredders) but you will want those models in their singles.

What a lot of the Battle boxes have is bad combinations of models. You don't run a Revenger with pKreoss, but there are several other casters who will. The Crusader doesn't show up in a ton of lists, except with some of the best Menoth casters like Harbinger or Kreoss3. And if you aren't going to use it then you can always use the extra bits from your second heavy kit to change the model.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/07 01:08:26


Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in us
Cosmic Joe





The Convergence battle box is excellent and you will be using all those units regardless of caster.
The Cipher is just so dang useful with its multi-purpose mortar and armor cracking pistons.
Get that, the corollary, and two or three units of angels and attunement servitors and you're gold!



Also, check out my history blog: Minimum Wage Historian, a fun place to check out history that often falls between the couch cushions. 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Shas'O Dorian wrote:
Just as a forewarning, the game isnt about giant mechs & beasts playing punch-out. A lot of the most effective builds run infantry heavy. I'm not saying this is a bad thing, just as a heads up. I got into it thinking I could run like 5 heavy jacks (because it fit pts wise) but quickly found I'd just get swarmed.

It is still a fun game & I hope you enjoy it, I just don't want you to have the wrong idea like I did (though I DO now enjoy the game, I'm not trying to dissuade you). Yes some caster run jack/beast heavy better than others but you will almost always want 2+ units of infantry for support.

Think of jacks like tanks. Theyre big and strong, hit hard and break lines but without support they will get swarmed and cracked open.


this is not strictly true.

Hordes armies are quite capable (and typically seen) running beast heavy. Thanks top the nature of fury, you tend to see most war packs with a couple of heavies and at least a single light. doodspam is not really a thing in Hordes, outside of very specific builds. Even in Warmachine, convergence and Menoth can do jack heavy quite well, though as you say, you need a squad or two of Infantry to back them up.

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Made in us
Monstrous Master Moulder




Rust belt

I would recommend that you buy the battlebox and get many games in just using the battlebox. You will be surprised on how much you can learn from the battlebox. Find out when the next journeyman league is and make sure you join it. Journeyman leagues are a great time and encourage game play and painting your army. Most important is to have fun it's a great game
   
Made in us
Combat Jumping Ragik






Yes hordes can run beast heavy but the op specifically mentions starting a WM army.

Some casters can go jack heavy but even then you rarely see more than 3. At least in what I have seen.

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Made in us
Cosmic Joe





My Convergence army goes at 4 heavy jacks and 3 light ones.
Also, check out this FB page for more Convergence info. It's a great place to ask questions.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/598893650185098/789491694458625/?notif_t=group_comment_reply" target="_new" rel="nofollow"> https://www.facebook.com/groups/598893650185098/789491694458625/?notif_t=group_comment_reply

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/07 15:32:24




Also, check out my history blog: Minimum Wage Historian, a fun place to check out history that often falls between the couch cushions. 
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

Convergence is thee exception. They can easily run an all Vector army, especially with Syntherion, due to their Induction abilities letting their jacks share focus.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







 Shas'O Dorian wrote:
Yes hordes can run beast heavy but the op specifically mentions starting a WM army.

Some casters can go jack heavy but even then you rarely see more than 3. At least in what I have seen.


Convergence (due to Induction) and Cygnar (due to three Journeymen and the best 'Jack Marshals around) can run lots of warjacks efficiently; every other Warmachine faction has one or two warcasters (Mortnembra, Horse!Vyros, et cetera) that like to run lots of warjacks but typically stick to just a few.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Shas'O Dorian wrote:
Just as a forewarning, the game isnt about giant mechs & beasts playing punch-out. A lot of the most effective builds run infantry heavy. I'm not saying this is a bad thing, just as a heads up. I got into it thinking I could run like 5 heavy jacks (because it fit pts wise) but quickly found I'd just get swarmed.

It is still a fun game & I hope you enjoy it, I just don't want you to have the wrong idea like I did (though I DO now enjoy the game, I'm not trying to dissuade you). Yes some caster run jack/beast heavy better than others but you will almost always want 2+ units of infantry for support.

Think of jacks like tanks. Theyre big and strong, hit hard and break lines but without support they will get swarmed and cracked open.


This is not true. It depends on the faction and the matchup but you can easily decide that infantry is boring and run an all-warjack/warbeast force (with appropriate support, of course) and do just fine. The Internet loves to tout the superiority of their army list build or list building theory but the game is balanced enough and skill-dependent enough that you will find in the end that so long as you bring a certain base level of stuff that makes your stuff better, make sure you're taking full advantage of your warcaster/warlock's spell list and abilities, and play the game well, you can win with almost anything. (Caveat: You need a warcaster/warlock who supports the 'beasts/'jacks to pull it off and not every faction can do it; Trolls and Khador are probably the worst at 'beast/'jack-spam)

Running lots of big things is much easier in Hordes than in Warmachine because the big things tend to be faster and you get to give them Fury as you need it instead of needing Focus ahead of time, but there are tricks that let you run lots of heavies just fine in Warmachine.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/03/07 16:26:38


 
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

Menoth does multiple jacks better than Cygnar. We have plenty of jacks that don't need focus, plus we have Choir and casters with higher than average focus.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in us
Satyxis Raider






Seattle, WA

 Makinit wrote:
Ok so I am a 40k ork player looking to start up a small WM army. I have looked at the models and really like the look of Aurora, Numen of Aerogenesis. Can someone help with a simple list that will work for this character?


Battleboxes are a great, cheap way to learn the game and decide if you like it and what you want in an army. For the models you get the price is just silly. And even if you end up not using the battlebox much it is great to have a couple that you can use to get friends into the game. I also use the extra models to test paint schemes.

But if you are already sold on the game and Aurora then by all means get her and start building a list around her.

I started with Cygnar, played Stryker once (maybe twice) and immediately switched to a different caster (Siege). However, After a few months I switched to Cryx and Deneghra is still my main caster.

Frankly, any way you build you are likely to have some extra models. If for no other reason your collection will get bigger than the points you can play with. So you will always have models that you paid money for and possibly did an awesome paintjob on, that you end up never really playing with. I don't think I've ever seen someone get a 35 or 50 point list and then never ever add to it.

   
Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







 Grey Templar wrote:
Menoth does multiple jacks better than Cygnar. We have plenty of jacks that don't need focus, plus we have Choir and casters with higher than average focus.


And no Nemo and no good 'Jack Marshals. Menoth also can't replicate the threat range available to other factions. I don't want to start this fight for the third time so you may have the last word if you so choose.

Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using.
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Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Illinois

Another thing I would really consider as a new player right now is that Privateer Press is doing "All-In-One Army boxes" that have a 35 pts force, tactic guide about how to use it as well as a mini rule book and they give a significant discount over buying all the models individually. The jacks and casters are not the same as the battlebox.

Also you could still do battlebox games just don't use the infantry or solos if you wanted to learn the game.

Edit: The Skorne and khador box are already out and the menoth box is due for release this month and cygnar after that. You could check your local store if they have the ones that already out. Also they are a limit run so I would act fast if that's what you want. link

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/08 14:11:55


 
   
Made in gb
Been Around the Block




Not seen this linked yet...

http://battlecollege.wikispaces.com/Convergence+of+Cyriss
http://battlecollege.wikispaces.com/Aurora%2C+Numen+of+Aerogenesis
http://battlecollege.wikispaces.com/Clockwork+Angels

IMO a very useful resource for a starting player.

Good luck on jumping into the deep end of WMH.


Gaz

   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

Tactical advice on battle college is hit and miss. Its really just a resource for general information on what a unit does. Actual rules interactions should be learned from others who actually know the faction.

The convergence forum on the pp forums is a good place to ask.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







Battlecollege is a place to start, not a place to stop, but it's a good place to start.

Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using.
Homebrew oldhammer project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/790996.page#10896267
Meridian: Necromunda-based 40k skirmish: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/795374.page 
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

I know, Just warning him to avoid taking their tactical advice and just use it for what its best at.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in us
Cosmic Joe





A new player wanting to run Aurora?
Here's a great bat rep that explains a lot of the units and rules as it goes along. And it has Aurora, though it is a best case scenario with her. Don't go in assuming you'll be able to do wha this guy does.





Also, check out my history blog: Minimum Wage Historian, a fun place to check out history that often falls between the couch cushions. 
   
Made in us
Abel





Washington State

 Makinit wrote:
Ok so I am a 40k ork player looking to start up a small WM army. I have looked at the models and really like the look of Aurora, Numen of Aerogenesis. Can someone help with a simple list that will work for this character?


Welcome to Warmachine! I wish I could be around for all the great times you will soon have. You are about to have some lows too... don't get too discouraged and just keep playing. Don't get too fixated on playing just one warcaster. Learn to play as many warcasters from your chosen faction as you can. You might find that you actually prefer a different style of playing then the one Aurora offers you. As a few others have said, the game has a steep learning curve. If you are learning in an already established meta, you will probably play 10+ games before you finally "get it" and start winning every once in a while.

Fluff and how cool a model looks != capability on the table top.

This game is 85% player, 10% list, and 5% luck.

Steamroller is not the be all, end all, and only way to play this game.

Don't look for internet lists. Remember, this game is 85% player, 10% list, 5% luck.

People will have very strong opinions about their chosen faction. You don't have to agree with them, just respect them.

Don't try to read into the rules. The rules say exactly what they mean. Pay attention to them!

Finally, have fun playing the game.


Kara Sloan shoots through Time and Design Space for a Negative Play Experience  
   
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Grovelin' Grot





I found it helpful to enter small sized tournaments when first playing CoC. Even though I didn't fair well, it allowed me to quickly realize mistakes, and how to improve upon them. Also the kill clocks (timers) forced me to quickly analyze the playing field and how to efficiently activate, in the right order, all my units, which is extremely important for CoC.

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