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Impact! miniatures are returning to the Dungeon Adventurers theme for their next KS.



https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/674003445/chibi-dungeon-monster-2-miniatures-w-art-book-and

This time they have their own chibi RPG ruleset which is available as a pdf and is included at $100 or more ($10 add on under that)

Lorraine's Walking in Chibi Wonderland artbook is an add on - $20 printed or $15 pdf both for $30
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=950562994974568


All miniatures are Trollcast

Points are available at various pledge levels 1 point = $1 but higher pledge levels get bonus points and will get more as stretch goals



Existing miniatures also available


Special Add on miniatures $4 each (cannot use points on them as they are not funded by the KS)

Due to stretch goals we have increase the number of points for several reward levels.

BUGBEAR now has 51 points
TROLL now has 82 points
WARLORD now has 113 points
SORCERESS now has 174 points
LICH now has 236 points
ELDER DRAGON now has 302 points

Stretch Goals

#8 - $17000 - Rock Elemental will be included in the point list figures for 5 points.

#7 - $15500 - Scorpion miniature will be included in the point list figures. 1 for 3 points, 4 for 10 points and 6 for 15 points.

#6 - $14000 - Sobek Warrior miniature included in the point list as a 5 point miniature.

#5 - $13000 - Wererat miniature included in the point list as a 5 point miniature.

#4 - $12000 - Dryad miniature included in the point list as a 5 point miniature.

#3 - $11000 - Bat swarm miniature included in the point list figures. 1 for 3 point, 4 for 10 points and 6 for 15 points.

#2 - $10000 - Free extra points added to several reward levels (see above table for new totals)

#1 - $9500 - Axeman miniature included in the point list figures as a 5 point miniature.

Yay! Looking forward to it! Some of the designs I have seen are really good.

Looking forward to it,

from facebook on 11th march

40 pages of full color ... Coming soon to KickStarter (end of this month (hopefully))

Tom Anders: The art book will be not just art but have comments from both Lorraine and Impact! about the process of creating the art and the miniatures from the art. Mark Maxey, Elizabeth Beckley, Glenn McClune, Juan Miguel López Barea, Cat O'Mighty, Nicholas E. Kelsch, Velvet Mark and many more wiil have shout outs in the book.

so it looks like the book will be in there as well as the minis (unless you're heard different DaveC?)

Yes the book is in there (I have a pdf copy ) It's 40 pages covering the artwork from the 5 chibi KS - last 2 pages are the adventurers 2 KS artwork.

There are other surprises but I'm sworn to secrecy.

I'm certainly getting the book then even if march madness means anything more is dicey,

but hopefully I can stretch to a few minis too, more Chibi is always good, especially with SDE now getting close to arrival

and it's live

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/674003445/chibi-dungeon-monster-2-miniatures-w-art-book-and

and backed

Yup, I'm in.

They said one of the focuses of this KS is 'Monsters Only' and the models which are for novice or beginners. I think some of the more complex models which needed too much cleaning or parts were hard for some people so they want to keep it simple. (which makes total sense!)

For some of the other stuff which people are asking for (Asian themed to go with NAS) those are available retail from the Impact! store.

I submitted 7 models, and they are doing 2 of them, (spidey and rattie) so I know there are some others they might choose if the stretches kick in or if they do paid add-ons.

Another look at the Orcs and Baby Dragon





I can confirm that the Tomb King, Anubis Warrior and Cyclops are digital sculpts and are finished they look spot on to the artwork (sorry can't show the pictures yet)

The Harpy, Hoplite, Witch Elf and Chaos Knight were sculpted by Velvet Mark (traditional sculpts) as these have been posted publicly on the SPM forum it should be OK to repost

Update #1 ℹ Mar 17 2015

FUNDED!!!! Thank you backers! Stretch Goal #1 (Axeman) and #2 (Free Points)

AMAZING! Wow ... Chris and I are speechless. Thank you backers. Funded in 10 hours.

ON TO THE STRETCH GOALS!

We will do Fight Club for upcoming stretch goals but for for the 1st Stretch Goal we would like to add in the Axeman Chibi from sculptor Velvet Mark that we obtained from him to use with this KickStarter as a Stretch Goal.

STRETCH GOAL #1 - $9,500 - Axeman miniature added

We will include this miniature in the list of miniatures you can pick from for 5 points.



STRETCH GOAL #2 - $10,000 - FREE POINTS!

Coming up fast ... we will already start giving out free points so you can get free miniatures with your rewards. If we reach $10,000 we will add on the following free points to these reward levels:
•BUGBEAR - 1 free point added
•TROLL - 2 free points added
•WARLORD - 3 free points added
•SORCERESS - 4 free points added
•LICH - 6 free points added
•ELDER DRAGON - 12 free points added

THIS WEEK - ADEPTICON

Tom will be traveling to Adepticon this week and working in the booth so updates will need to be in the evening through Sunday. So don't worry if you don't hear from us as we break Stretch Goals. Tom will do his best to keep up with the KickStarter while he is at the show. If you are in Chicago at Adepticon swing by the Impact! booth and say Hi to Tom!

Thank you again for helping us reach this point so quickly ... we are truly humbled.

Tom & Chris @ Impact!



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Update #2 ℹ


Mar 18 2015

Stretch Goals #1 and #2 unlocked! Stretch Goal #3 - Bat swarm creature & Stretch Goal #4 Fight! (Chibee vs Dryad)




29 Comments









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Last night we unlocked Stretch Goal #1 (Axeman 5 point miniature) and #2 (Free points to several reward levels).

Stretch Goal #3 will unlock at $11,000. It will be for a swarm monster, the chibi Bat from Nick Kelsch. This means it will be offered 4 for 10 points and 6 for 15 points. They will come with flight stands.





Stretch Goal #4 will unlock at $12,000. This will be a Fight Club event. The contestants are the Chibee and the Dryad. The Chibee will be a swarm monster. 4 for 10 points and 6 for 15. The Dryad will be a normal 30mm monster and will be 5 points.

To decide which one is made when we reach $12,000, just put your response in a comment reply to this update as to which one you want made. When we reach $12,000 we will add them up and make the winner of the fight as the stretch goal miniature.





Special thanks to backer Glenn McClune. He designed the Chibee and paid Lorraine to make the art for it and has very graciously allowed us to work on offering a figure based on his design.

Thank you so much for reaching a point where I am even discussing Stretch Goal #4 before the KickStarter has been live for less than 24 hours.

Tom & Chris @ Impact!

Stretch Goals

#1 - $9500 - Axeman miniature included in the point list figures as a 5 point miniature.

#2 - $10000 - Free extra points! 1 point added to Bugbear, 2 points added to Troll, 3 points added to Warlord, 4 points added to Sorceress, 6 points to Lich and 12 points to Elder Dragon.

#3 - $11000 - Bat swarm miniature included in the point list figures. 4 for 10 points and 6 for 15 points.

#4 - $12000 - Dryad miniature included in the point list as a 5 point miniature.

#5 - $13000 - Wererat miniature included in the point list as a 5 point miniature.

So wererat is next!


This is one of mine! I am glad it made it in! I hope people like him.

Stretch Goal #5 Unlocked (Wererat) - Vote for Sobek or Rock Elemental ($14k)

Thank you backers. We've unlocked the Wererat and are announcing the next stretch goal at $14,000. We need your help in deciding if it will be....Sobek Warrior or Rock Elemental. Sobek was the Egyptian god represented with a crocodile. It will further fill out the Eygptian theme. A sample is provided below to give you a sense of what it may look like. It will be opposed by the mighty Rock Elemental. It should provide some solid minions for building a set with the Earth Elemental Lord.



Sobek (Not actual miniature for illustration only)



Rock Elemental

Thanks again for all your support!

Chris & Tom

Update #5

Mar 26 2015

3-D images of three of the new sculpts and extras minis added to existing table


Like

Juan finished 3 of the new miniatures and we wanted to share his finished work and he really does a great job of translating Lorraine's art to the 3-D image.

Cyclops



Anubis



Tomb King



He made a group image to show scale of the new models with his Orcs as well as the Wise Sensai model which is a chibi that we already produce as a 30mm tall model.



In addition, I've had some people make some very good cases for expanding the range of existing figures offered to get with points. The models needed to be able to be monsters/enemies that you could fight in a RPG setting, they needed simple figures that are not too many parts and needed to be ones with minimal filing/prep needs. Based on that and the requests we have included 8 additional existing models in the KickStarter (each is 5 points). The 5 Ninja, the Daimyo/Samurai, the Jiang-Shi/Vampire and the Crusader/Animated Armor. In addition, for people who do not need more standard D&D dice, we added an option to just get the non-standard dice (the D14, D16 and D18) as a set for 6 points.

We are slowly getting closer to unlocking the next stretch goal and look forward to doing so. Chris and I are working on a special announcement soon for this KickStarter as well and I hope to share it with you soon. Thank you to all our backers for helping us reach several stretch goals unlocked so far and we look forward to unlocking more.

Tom & Chris @ Impact!,

Awesome. I am over model assembly!!!

Great designs!

Project Update #6: Chibi Dungeon Monster 2 Miniatures w/Art Book & RPG Rulebook by Impact! Miniatures
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Kickstarter <no-reply@kickstarter.com>

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#6
Sobek Warrior Unlocked. Next stretch goal ... Scorpion swarm or Scarab swarm?



Posted by Impact! Miniatures



Thank you backers we crossed the line for $14,000 and the winner of the poll was the Sobek Warrior. Now 23 would like to show you Lorraine's final art for the Sobek ... but she is not quite done with it yet. It should be finished very shortly and we promise to update the KickStarter to show it to you all as soon as it finished. The Sobek Warrior is 30mm tall and will be added to the list of miniatures you can get for 5 points.

Since the Egyptian mythos is proving very popular ... we wanted to offer the backers a way to add some desert swarm monsters to better fill out their dungeons. We make a Giant Scorpion but he is massive and his casting is a bit of a challenge some days to get all the legs and the head to cast correctly. So Nick Kelsch has sculpted a swarm chibi scorpion to add some stinger goodness to your game. Competing against the chibi scorpion for the poll will be a swarm chibi scarab beetle. Enough of these cute bugs on a victim and his flesh is gone in seconds.

So backers ... the next stretch goal is at $15,500. Reply in the comments to this update whether the swarm Scorpion or the swarm Scarab Beetle should unlock when we reach that goal!

Both figures will be offered as 1 for 3 points, 4 for 10 points and 6 for 15 points.

And here are sculpts for both figures. (note the Scorpion tail is a separate piece so the tail could be glued on up in the air like a normal scorpion) (the new sculpts are shown next to the swarm figures Wormie and Baggie for scale comparison)



We should hopefully be back soon with an update on the Sobek art (and hopefully a cool surprise announcement).

Tom & Chris @ Impact!

Update #7 Mar 27 2015

Sobek Art and special Add-on miniature announced - The Trucker

We just received the art from Lorraine for the Sobek Warrior and wanted to share it with all the backers.



In addition, we have a special announcement for an add-on Chibi miniature that we are making available with the KickStarter.

We were approached at Adepticon and asked if we could make a special chibi miniature. We discussed the costs and the details and agreed that we could do it. So this figure is not being funded by this KickStarter. The figure is being created for this special project and has outside funding so points cannot be used to pick up this miniature. However, part of the arrangement for creating the figure allows you our backers to get this figure as part of your reward for 20% off what it will be when we hand over the figure to the requestor as well as add it to our online store where it will sell for $5.

So for a $4 add-on to your pledge you can get the special request chibi, The Trucker. He is definitely not a dungeon monster but he seems to keep landing in situations where he has to deal with them. He's paid his dues though and for him its all in the reflexes for surviving from one monster battle to the next.



Thank you everyone for your interest in the project so far.

Tom & Chris @ Impact!

Update #8

Killer Reptile sneaks into the KickStarter as an add-on

The Story: Years ago Tom informed his two sons that they both could have a figure if it was a reasonable cost to do so that they would like to see Impact! sell. The one son immediately pounced and asked for a dragon. It took me a while to find a good dragon to add to the store but I was finally able to purchase the rights to a sculpt by Bob Olley to add a dragon to the store to fulfill the request ( http://www.impactminiatures.com/minis/big/OlleyDragon.jpg ).

My 2nd son ... held on to his request. While he has joking repeatedly asked for figures in the past (like a Nopperabō during and after the Asian Chibi KS) ... he was never willing to use this request to get it. Last week he finally made a decision and requested a Chibi model and he offered to help finance some of it to help have it made while the figures for this KickStarter are being worked on. So Tom agreed and Lorraine has finished the art for his figure ... the Killer Reptile. If is a standard 30mm tall model and definitely has some serious tooth and claw attacks (probably more than one claw attack stat-wise). No KickStarter funds will be used to create him so he will not cause any increased stretches between stretch goals. He is an add-on figure as a result that points cannot be used to obtain and can be included with your reward for a $4 add-on to your pledge. We expect he will sell for either $5 or $6 when he is placed in the online store after the KickStarter. My son found him the perfect balance between cute and horrifying if you had to face 3 of them working as a team to be just want he wanted for his figure.



Tom @ Impact!

Oooo I likes that

I likes that a lot

Yeah!!! I'll be able to do all sorts of Chibi Undead- Fantasy Football teams now!

#9
Scorpion unlocked! Next stretch goal is the Rock Elemental. Preview of Dryad

Posted by Impact! Miniatures

Thank you again backers ... today we unlocked the Scorpion swarm chibi. 3 points for 1, 10 points for 4 and 15 points for 6 .



The next stretch goal is at $17,000 and will be to unlock the 30mm Chibi Rock Elemental. The Rock Elemental will be a 5 point miniature and added to the selection list.



For those of you who were hoping that Scarab and Chi-bee would make a return ... we are still hoping to be able to unlock both of them before the KS is completed and based on past KS Chibi projects that does seem doable. If they do come back ... we won't make you choose ... we'll just but both of them into the same stretch goal.

Juan has completed the Dryad so we also wanted to show that off. I worked with Juan on how to lay out the figure and Ed just emailed to say that he thinks we succeeded at making it a one piece miniature. Juan's work to turn Lorraine's work into 3-D is still incredible to us.



Also and finally ... we are trying to decide what to do with the stretch goal after $17,000 which will be at $18,000 to get ready for it. We have had two camps being outspoken in the KickStarter. One is really like getting an Egyptian set of Chibi monster and the other has requested more traditional RPG monsters. So this is a pseudo poll as well ... if you had a choice between $18,000 being Bast/Bastet or a Dungeon monster (a fight between say a Giant Rat or a Half-Giant (maybe loosely based on someone like Andre the Giant)) ... would you rather $18,000 be Egyptian or Dungeon?

Thanks Backers! We hope to post an update soon with a quick video of the art book as the printer is really trying to get us a copy of it soon (and hopefully before the KS is over). ;-)

Tom & Chris @ Impact!

3 Days to go

#10 Final week ... requested minis added to list ... new reward levels ... Killer Lizard sculpt

Posted by Impact! Miniatures

We are entering the final day of the project and wanted to thank everyone for your support so far. As of this update we are $869 from the next stretch goal to unlock the Rock Elemental. Once that is unlocked we have stretch goals planned at $18k, $19k and $20k so hopefully we'll be able to unlock several goals quickly as we enter the final days which are normally busy ones for a KickStarter project.

We have had several requests to add on figures from the past to the project for points and we are doing our best to review those requests and respond where possible.

In the 5 point category we are adding in the following 4 older monsters based on backer message requests: Hippocampus, Skeleton Pony, Zombie Pony and the One Eyed Demon.



In addition, we had two requests (but from more than one person) for some other minis. The first was the Bob Olley dragon that my other son asked for as his figure to be put in the Impact! store. While not a Chibi ... it is a really great sculpt coming in at 52mm tall. The other was for Chibi like minions for the Pumpkinhead General to animate and command to battle. So we are including our 16mm tall Pumpkins to the list as well. Dragon is 15 points and the 4 Pumpkin set is 16 points.



We hope to be able to give another update tomorrow with a preview of the art book. Based on other backer requests ... we added on two new reward levels for those not needing Chibi minis. The first will allow you to pledge for just the Electronic PDF files. The second will allow you to just get the Softcover Chibi Art Book.

Finally, Juan really like the idea of the Killer Lizard so he has already completed the sculpt and he looks great. Tom's son is really happy with his miniature and hopes you enjoy it as well.

#11 The proofs for the Art Book are in and they look great

Very happy with how the art book turned out. Wanted to share a quick flip through for everyone of it.
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=950562994974568

Apologies that the video is not the best it could be. I am a Jack of all Trades but a master of video ... I am not.

Looking forward to the final days!

Tom & Chris @ Impact!

#12 Final 3 days ... stretch goals ahead

Just so that we do not have anyone wondering what the next stretch goal is if we knock them down over the next 3 days we wanted to give the list so all the backers (and new backers) could be aware.

At $17,000 we will add the Rock Elemental to the list of 5 point new miniatures you can choose.

At $18,000 we will add Bast(et) to the list of 5 point new miniatures you can choose.

At $19,000 we will add both the Scarab Beetle swarms and the Chi-bee swarms to the list of item you can choose (1 for 3 points, 4 for 10 points and 6 for 15 points)



At $20,000 we will be adding on free points to the KickStarter. The new points total allowed will be:

ORC: 27' (2 free)
BUGBEAR: 54 (4 free)
TROLL: 85 (5 free)
WARLORD: 106 (6 free)
SORCERESS: 180 (10 free)
LICH: 246 (16 free)
ELDER DRAGON: 311 (21 free)

We look forward to knocking down each of these 4 stretch goals between now and Thursday.

Tom & Chris @ Impact!

6 hours left now ends 2AM BST / 9PM ET. Realistically at this stage the Rock Elemental is probably as far as it will get unless there is a last minute rush, not much movement in the final 48 hours I guess there was just to much happening on KS in March. Still a nice selection funded it would be nice to get to Bast(et) at $18,000 to round out the Egyptian theme. Horus was planned for around $21,000 but that's too far off now.

Here is hoping we unlock at least one more guy... Might not see the chibi bee/beetle this time. I think the one piece 3D molds are gonna be gems if they are anything like the Pony stuff.

$900 to Bast(et)

#13
Rock Elemental unlocked! Scarab Beetle and Chi-bee swarms and Bast(et) stretch goal

Backers ... thank you! We just unlocked the Rock Elemental now and he has been added to the 5 point list of miniatures you can pick from.

If we reach $18,000, we will unlock the Bast(et) chibi which will also be a 30mm tall 5 point miniature.

If you have not yet shared this project on Facebook or Twitter it is not too late to help us get a last surge to the finish line.

To help us hopefully reach Bast(et) we have decided to make the molds for the Scarab Beetle and the Chi-bee swarms. If we reach $19,000, these miniatures will be able to be obtained for points but regardless of that you'll be able to add one to your pledge for $3, 4 of one type for $10 or 6 of one type for $15 as an add-on. I'm still hopefully we can reach the point where these are unlocked as points but we know that swarm monsters are very popular with the backers and Nick has been great to work with in sculpting these figures on short notice so we wanted to make them available to everyone.

The below photo shows the Scarab Beetle and the Chi-bee with the Scorpion unlocked earlier in the Kickstarter.



Finally here is the art for the Rock Elemental again so all backers know which figure we just unlocked in the 5 point list!



Thank you again backers and we look forward to what the last 4 1/2 hours have to offer.

Tom & Chris @ Impact!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
guess is was wrong picked up a good bit

Update #14


Bast(et) unlocked! Sphinx at $20k! Free points stretch and the Beetle/Chi-bee for points!


We just unlocked Bast(et) for the new 5 point Chibee. We are still working on her with Lorraine. I'm not sure what the final product is going to end up looking like. My first discussion with Chris was having Lorraine come up with a double dagger wielding version that was a mix between these two images: http://www.mmoreviews.com/imgs/Smite-rw2.jpg and http://www.ioffer.com/img3/item/537/586/303/clggegyptian-statue-bastet-feminine-divine.jpg

However I know we were still working on it. But for those that do not know Bastet she was an Egyptian Goddess normally shown as a cat. She will go great with the other Egyptian models in this set.

Okay at $19,000 we will unlock allowing everyone to use points instead of add-on $ to get the Scarab and the Chi-bee shown in the last couple update (and currently in the add-on section of the main page).

At $20,000, we will be offering free points to several levels.

ORC: 27' (2 free)
BUGBEAR: 54 (4 free)
TROLL: 85 (5 free)
WARLORD: 116 (6 free)
SORCERESS: 180 (10 free)
LICH: 246 (16 free)
ELDER DRAGON: 311 (21 free)

And Juan has just made a very special offer for the race to the finish. He has offered to resculpt the Egyptian Sphinx for almost nothing if this project can actually reach $20,000. If that is the case we'll create a 50mm version of the Egyptian Sphinx and offer it as a 10 point miniature for the KickStarter if we reach $20,000. The original Egyptian Sphinx was a massive model (the head alone is 45mm tall) and it just does not cast well as it is soooo large. Shrinking it down to 50mm tall would still make it impressive but also mean it should cast at a significantly better quality.

So there are the goals for the final 2 1/2 hours ... if you have friends who do not know about the project now is the time to go give them a shout and see if we can reach the free point level and pick up some more free points/items for many of the backers.

Tom & Chris @ Impact!

Bast(et) art and the Egyptian Sphinx

We receive the art for Bast(et) from Lorraine and she looks great!



Juan contacted us and made us a really good offer to go ahead and redo the size of the Egyptian Sphinx model for us if we have it done at the same time as finishing up the other sculpts for this project. So good a price that we agreed to have him do it to have it in our back pocket. Now here is the good news. I have the 3-D printer in my hands now and I'm getting ready to start seeing how well it works. If I can get the hang of it and the quality of the prints is good enough so that I can print the Egyptian Sphinx instead of Shapeways then we have the budget to make the new 50mm Sphinx a $10 add-on in the pledge manager when it is ready in mid to late May. So I have time to see what I can do. We will keep you updated if this character can be added into the pledge manager as well.

Tom & Chris @ Impact!

Rather than start a new thread as it's not really miniatures related I'll retcon this thread Impact! have a small kickstarter going now for a chibi art colouring book

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/674003445/brony-adventurers-pony-coloring-book



I won't be keeping this up to date other than to post news from the Dungeon Monsters KS - Sobek has been sculpted looks good should hopefully be in a new update soon.

Pledge Manager almost finished. 3 extra add-on miniatures announced.
1 Comment
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We are only a couple days from the Pledge manager being emailed to everyone. You will receive a message from Skykadia which will have your login information. This is great service offered to us from backer Kenny and it has been a key way we handle our KickStarters for a few years now.

When you open the pledge manager you will see something like this on your Choices page:

Reward Troll
Shipping $9.00
Pledged $104.00
To spend $20.00
To pay $0.00
Points left 82

Reward is the name of your reward level. Shipping will show if you needed to pay any shipping charges on your order. Pledged will be the total amount that you pledged (including the shipping). To spend is the $ amount you pledged over the reward level either to use for extra points or to buy items that were add-ons for $ only. To pay will only have a value if you include extra items you would like to have included in your reward beyond your original pledge. This is highly encouraged! ;-) When you complete the pledge manager, you can easily pay any extra through the pledge manager. Finally the Points Left item is the points that you have to spend on items that could be obtained for points. If you select items that can be obtained for points it will reduce your point total left. If you pick more point items than you have point, not a problem, it will just include the extra points at $1 each in the To Pay line.

If you have any questions when you get the pledge manager ... PLEASE ask them. Happy to help!

Finally I wanted to announce that 3 items were added to the pledge manager as Add-on based on activity that happened since the last update.

The first is the Egyptian Sphinx at 50mm for $10 add-on. We were able to successfully reduce scale print the figure and it is off to be mastered already.

My oldest son is an artist and he drew a figure in his sketchbook that I just fell in love with the design. We talked about it and I paid him like I would a normal artist to get the concept from him to have Lorraine turn it into a chibi. To make the most of it ... we will offer the design as an add-on in two forms. The Demonkin Mage ($4 add-on) will not have the spell effects sculpted around the hands and the tail will be a separate piece that can be added or not. The Demonkin Cleric ($6 add-on) will be the same figure as the Demonkin Mage but will come with a long handled warhammer that can be added to the figure's open hand. Both figure will be 30mm to the top of their heads (not to the top of the horns). Hope you enjoy these 2 last adds to the KickStarter as much my son and I have.

Creator Impact! Miniatures about 4 hours ago

It is not fully finished yet (still 9 items that need included) but you can preview the pledge manager here: https://skykadia.com/impact/chibi5.php

These haven't been shown yet but Chris sent them to me awhile ago so I'm sure he won't mind if I share them (note these were WIP and may not be 100% finished)

Oh man... that chibi croc. I think I must have it