Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey

So I painted this and had a lot of fun with it:


I've got not even the slightest idea of how one would make a list in FoW, but I want to paint more 15mm tanks (not infantry though, the just seem boring).

Can anyone give me an idea of how many stugs/panzers/tigers one would need to make a coherent, average sized armoured force?

Wildly varying numbers depending on specific list.

However, speaking in general terms for Late War and going for the tournament value of 1900 points:

PzIV and StuG - 14 or so assuming a Late War list. Some lists allow for a few more but that's a general number you'll see in functional lists
Panther - 10ish outside of specific lists; from Panzers to the Meuse (the free list) those 10 Panthers are 1875 points on its own (and horribly ineffective)
Tiger - 8 is probably all the more you could ever find use for, though 4 or 5 is a more realistic number
Tiger II - 6 is about the absolute max, 3 is more realistically usable. Same for the Jagdtiger probably.

If you're looking at other eras/tanks the numbers change, but I don't think the Germans have too many lists where there's hordes of tanks. Not swearing that those are wondrous numbers, but I'm fairly confident those are in the ballpark of what you're asking about.

As far as getting experience building a list, the FoW Army Builder at http://forces.flamesofwar.com/ is pretty easy to use. You can also see what support options you may want because while you might not want a TON of infantry, there are times that a platoon is really handy. The models are actually quite interesting, but it is insanely tedious to pick out all those details at the volume of models that an infantry company has (says the person who has a whole US Airborne platoon about half-painted with another half-dozen steps to go...and another platoon past this one...for the core force...).

If you don't mind Russians you can get 31 T34 34/85s in alist.

Flames of War is a very "combined arms" type of game. Even if you are a treadhead (like me), you WILL need AT LEAST one infantry platoon for a viable list. There are lots of interesting infantry out there (especially for Germans), so don't think they are all boring.

Most games are between 1500-1750 points. Contrary to what Krinsath said, no competent TO is going to recommend 1900pt lists in Late War - that's too much for 4x6 tables and there's no way you'd get through enough scenarios to adequately score and rank the players.

Depending on the list you choose, at 1500pts in Late War, you'd probably be able to field around 6-7 StuGs and maybe 1-2 Tigers or 3-4 Pz IVs. Again, it's all dependent on the list you choose.

 ancientsociety wrote:
Most games are between 1500-1750 points. Contrary to what Krinsath said, no competent TO is going to recommend 1900pt lists in Late War - that's too much for 4x6 tables and there's no way you'd get through enough scenarios to adequately score and rank the players.

1900pts Is what BF recommend for Late War: http://www.flamesofwar.com/?tabid=57 I doubt you'd find many independent tournaments going for 1900 (the highest I've seen is 1800), but you can and will run into some that want you to plonk 1900 worth of models down on a 4x6.

Like ancient said, though, 1500-1750 is more likely (perhaps as low as 1350 sometimes, or maybe even lower if you just want to run small learning/teaching games).

 ancientsociety wrote:
Contrary to what Krinsath said, no competent TO is going to recommend 1900pt lists in Late War - that's too much for 4x6 tables and there's no way you'd get through enough scenarios to adequately score and rank the players.

Unless it is a part of the North American Flames of War Tournament Series which is playing 1,900 points for Late War.

 Ghaz wrote:

 ancientsociety wrote:
Contrary to what Krinsath said, no competent TO is going to recommend 1900pt lists in Late War - that's too much for 4x6 tables and there's no way you'd get through enough scenarios to adequately score and rank the players.

Unless it is a part of the North American Flames of War Tournament Series which is playing 1,900 points for Late War.

Indeed, hence my basis of suggestion; not using tanks is much easier than needing one you don't have, especially if you're in for the joy of painting/assembly. More tanks = more platoons = more schemes to try out.

Looking back though, including that caveat was somewhat pointless as the numbers of tanks don't actually change that much other than the Panthers (and there's a RT list out there that I don't have access to that likely would work just fine there too). 14 StuG G in PttM is 1380 points and Pz4s are 1225; you just run out of slots to take more tanks in your combat platoons and the more esoteric models (JPzIV/70, Hetzer, Jadgpanther, etc.) weren't mentioned. That's a huge chunk but you can squeeze in support if you want to. The Tiger Is are debatable depending on list, but you can get 6 KTs with the 510th along with 2 Volkssturm and a 6-battery of 15cm Nebs for 1635 out of B@R. The JTs are a bit pricier where you can only squeeze in 5 at the level you recommend with similar support, but still doable.

Those may not be tournament-winning lists (because we're talking Late War and German armor), but again if your goal is just to collect tanks for the fun of putting them together and maybe plunking them on the table on a lark, the numbers are still a decent guide.

 Ghaz wrote:

 ancientsociety wrote:
Contrary to what Krinsath said, no competent TO is going to recommend 1900pt lists in Late War - that's too much for 4x6 tables and there's no way you'd get through enough scenarios to adequately score and rank the players.

Unless it is a part of the North American Flames of War Tournament Series which is playing 1,900 points for Late War.

Which is probably one of the contributing factors in the decline of attendance in recent years. 1900pts worth of LW spam, especially with the introduction of the recent books means your players are pressed for both table space and time. But it's not really here nor there in regards to OP's question.

I'll join the echo chamber 1900 for LW is too much, I think the 1650-1750 is the sweet spot (though others like lower still)

depends 1,900 is ok for tank games - but with the limit that it will be a tank company and limits on none tank support - but it will be a lot for a general game.

have freaked people out with the old Earth and Steel book with Grenadiers, 13-14 platoons at 1,750, mostly infantry and guns.. oh yes and they don't sit still. the mayhem I could cause at 1,900..

Wouldn't do it at an event as the games take a while to set up