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The Storm of Silence tournament is coming to Spokane Valley, Wa and it's the first competitive level tournament I've ever been to, so I want to show up guns blazing and just not get my backside handed to me every round. So as a result I have two lists which I feel can compete with the big gunz. The rules are only two detachments without copying (so no double CAD shenanigans).

List 1
Decurion Detachment
Reclamation Legion
Overlord w/ gauntlet of the conflagrator, phase shifter, and MSS

2X 10 warriors + Ghost ark

2X 5 Gauss Immortals + Night Scythe

1X 3 Tomb blades w/ shield vanes and nebuloscopes

Canoptek Harvest
Spyder w/ TL particle Beamer

5X wraiths w/ whip coils

7X Scarabs

Deathbringer Flight

2X Doomscythes

This list is very balanced but requires good reserve rolls and has good juicy targets like a Spyder and two ghost arks. I played this list against a centStar and got roflstomped. He was in my face turn one and my fliers couldn't get on the board fast enough. I was able to kill his dread knights with my harvest but by that time I only had two wraiths two doom scythes and a night scythe with my overlord to his full centStar and two BA tac squads + Drop pods on objectives. Maybe I just need to practice more. Or maybe I can try this list!

CAD + Formation
CAD
HQ CCB w/ warscythe phase shifter and nightmare shroud

3X 10 warriors + Ghost Arks

2X Doomsday Arks

1X 4 wraiths w/ whip coils

Judicator Battalion
Stalker w/ TL heavy gauss cannon

2X 5 Praetorians w/rod of the covenant

I feel like this list has much more specialization in that things have more specific roles. I love Doomsday Arks and it's too difficult to cram them into a decurion. They do all the long range tank hunting. Warriors and Arks both with obsec move around the field nabbing objectives and hopefully flooding wounds. Wraiths are there for tar pitting something I don't want to fight and the Judicator is there to get in your face quickly and if necessary hunt down anything with a 2+ armor save. I gave the stalker the gauss cannon because I want him to stay protected and still be able to fight.

Any questions?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also which do you think can stand up to the meta better? There will be Flyrants and Adlances and Serpent spam, and all that jive.

The first list has more legs to it. However I would drop the 2 extra Wraiths in the Harvest, there is no point in taking more than the minimum with Wraiths. Just wastes 86 extra points for no benefit, since the nerf in this codex. Likewise I would drop the extra scarabs, though they do serve a bit more of a purpose that is another 80 points. That's 166 points freed up. I would either cut back on the Overlord for further points or upgrade him to a CCB.

Then pump any spare points into Tomb Blades they are the best unit in the codex if not the entire game.

My problem is that half the army on the first list has to start in reserves. If im playing a drop pod army or shunting Dreadknights like I did Im done for. List two has 6 ObSec troop units in skimmers. How is that not leggy? or what do you mean by "more legs to it?"

By more legs I mean more potential. ObSec is great, but a 4+++ is huge on units like Tomb Blades (one of the best tools for dealing with Serpents).

I would invest less in flyers on list 1. The 2nd unit of Immortals can go. Perhaps get a second Harvest so those extra Wraiths are actually useful. That way against shunting Knights and a Censtar you can plow a Wraith unit into a Knight (they're not going anywhere any time soon) and another into the centstar as it can overwatch and has poor volume of attacks the Wraiths should tie it up near indefinitely whilst you deal with the rest of his army.

If you're really worried about it get a 3rd harvest. Remember Wraiths are not a mainline combat unit since the nerf, they are however probably the best fast moving tarpit in the game.

If you're taking a CAD, I wouldn't bother with the judicator battalion as a formation. Just take Praetorians so you aren't wasting points. They're not that great against armor anyway, so the formation bonus is bleh.

How is rerolls to hit and to wound bleh? Also what points are wasted? The stalker is brilliant with warriors in arks.

 FlingitNow wrote:
How is rerolls to hit and to wound bleh? Also what points are wasted? The stalker is brilliant with warriors in arks.

Rerolls in the shooting phase only (and only for the units in the formation). I don't know about you, but I'd rather assault with the Praetorians so they keep their weapon rule that turn due to rods being a dual profile. A single Stalker, as far as it's own shooting doesn't really need the reroll I find. My point is, the formation is restrictive in that it needs 1 stalker, and 2 units of praetorions for a formation bonus that isn't THAT useful for what the units actually do. I'd rather just take stalkers (for their specific bonus to friendly units), or a single unit of praetorians. Not be forced to take all of it, for a formation bonus, that isn't very useful for what the praetorians are doing. Specifically in terms of using a CAD.

EDIT: Also, isn't the gauss cannon already twin linked? The OP also stated the warriors would be flying around grabbing objectives - Not easy keeping a stalker near by...Those points could be spent on taking more praetorians which he wants to assault with. Again, the formaton bonus does not lend itself to being very useful for what these units do.

Hi Dragoon65, damn this looks a solid list, would you mind giving your thoughts on my list?

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/641506.page

Would really appreciate a bit of constructive criticism

So, let's just review what you need to fight and what is best at countering each:

Serpent Spam = Tomb Blades
CentStar = Wraiths
Knights = MSU (Gauss from everywhere can kill them, but the best defense is wasting their shooting and assault phases). Conversely you could take a ton of Warscythes, but that doesn't seem to be the direction you're going.

I would take a Reclamation Legion with three 5-ish sized units of Tomb Blades and a Canoptek Harvest. Fill out the list with MSU. You'll have plenty of scoring, plenty of AT from Gauss and you'll be able to largely ignore things you can't beat face up like Knights and fliers.

Just shoot at Ap2 with rerolls then charge with Ap2 to finish. The formation is good. The Stalker works well with that many warriors and Ghostarks.

 FlingitNow wrote:
Just shoot at Ap2 with rerolls then charge with Ap2 to finish. The formation is good. The Stalker works well with that many warriors and Ghostarks.

It doesn't work that way. Rods have a dual profile. BRB says to choose "which" for each turn (not phase). You can only shoot, or charge with the AP2 weapon. Not both. It needs an FAQ either way. Due to this, I find shooting (and thus the formation bonus) not beneficial in regards to praetorians who want to assault.

Damn i never thought that they wouldn't be able to assault...

WikkedTiki wrote:
Damn i never thought that they wouldn't be able to assault...

They can assault, they just don't get an AP2 weapon to swing with.

Interesting. Im new to the necrons and thought i would like the praetorians, but I'm undecided.

partninja wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:
Just shoot at Ap2 with rerolls then charge with Ap2 to finish. The formation is good. The Stalker works well with that many warriors and Ghostarks.

It doesn't work that way. Rods have a dual profile. BRB says to choose "which" for each turn (not phase). You can only shoot, or charge with the AP2 weapon. Not both. It needs an FAQ either way. Due to this, I find shooting (and thus the formation bonus) not beneficial in regards to praetorians who want to assault.

This interpretation does lead to anyone firing with their pistols then not being able to gain the +1 attack in CC for having 2 CCWs. Hence why it is largely ignored.

partninja wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:
Just shoot at Ap2 with rerolls then charge with Ap2 to finish. The formation is good. The Stalker works well with that many warriors and Ghostarks.

It doesn't work that way. Rods have a dual profile. BRB says to choose "which" for each turn (not phase). You can only shoot, or charge with the AP2 weapon. Not both. It needs an FAQ either way. Due to this, I find shooting (and thus the formation bonus) not beneficial in regards to praetorians who want to assault.

Here is the six page discussion on the matter in YMDC. Read it (or not) and come to an agreement with your opponent/group.

Holy crap, I never got any emails saying people were discussing these lists. I would have been very much adamant about replying. First and foremost my biggest problem with your suggestion for the Decurion list @Flingitnow is the lack of tomb blades among any shops and distributors in my area. I found three and was lucky haha. @Partninja the main reason I would really use the Judicator formation is not really the rerolls, though that's super nice, its giving my praetorians MTC. I feel like that will make them move much faster. I will have to read up on the dual profile thing, I thought of it as the brb says if they don't get a specified CC weapon they just have their strength with no ap but the rod specifies one for them so they would use that in combat no matter what. Thank you all for the discussion! I feel like I might be on to something fun with one of these lists.

Also, if you're only allowed two detachments, your first list has 3.
The decurion, the harvest, and the death flight. Unless they're not counting formations as detachments (formations are a detachment still).

The first list is really good but honestly I'd just take more Immortals and dumb the 2nd Nightscythe. Use the points to purchase more tomb blades.

partninja wrote:
Also, if you're only allowed two detachments, your first list has 3.
The decurion, the harvest, and the death flight. Unless they're not counting formations as detachments (formations are a detachment still).

The Harvest and Death Flight are part of the Decurion. Do you know how the Decurion works?

Yeah, the Decurion is a detachment made of formations. So you guys think the Decurion with a little point maneuvering is better/more competitive? Unfortunately I don't want to risk trying to add more Tomb Blades to the list proxying them to practice and not being able to find enough for the tourney itself. My big problem is that the Decurion list has about half the army in reserves so I might drop one immortal squad to fit some more stuff on the board. Maybe turn my overlord into a CCB, maybe fiddle in another full ghost ark, maybe there's a way to also fit a Judicator battalion and kinda mash the two lists together. Other than adding more Tomb Blades (which I may do if I can for sure get the models) what are the overall suggestions? Run Decurion? Run Ark Spam? Move points to where?

I honestly don't think you need but 1 Nightscythe in that list if you are taking 2 Doom Scythes, 3 Flyers should be enough.

Take some Flayed Ones, More Wraiths, or more Tomb Blades.

MSU Canoptek Harvest WRaiths are pretty keen.

 FlingitNow wrote:
Remember Wraiths are not a mainline combat unit since the nerf

What is this nerf you keep referring to?

Also, no one has mentioned anything about OP taking MSS on his HQ... You sure you want to do that? They don't work the same way anymore, you know.

Yeah the MSS were just last amount of points that I couldn't throw anywhere else really. I understand they got nerfed below an Imperial Knight's boot but I had some points.

That's... kinda sad.

Just remember that for the storm you can only choose each formation once. I'd also caution you on utilizing strategies to tie up censtar in close combat. As long as draigo is alive, they can gate out of it in the psychic phase and resume shooting.

I also like the extra bodies in the wraith squad. Two more wraiths can mean the difference between your target getting out of cc turn four or turn five.

If you have the wraiths then don't drop them. I have no idea what flingitnow is talking about either. The only thing wraiths got is better.

I would take the extra scarabs out though.

Personally I'd take a barge lord, and certainly get a scythe on him. Get rid of MSS and conflagerator.

An spare points can go into more tomb blades.

 Big Blind Bill wrote:
If you have the wraiths then don't drop them. I have no idea what flingitnow is talking about either. The only thing wraiths got is better.

I would take the extra scarabs out though.

Personally I'd take a barge lord, and certainly get a scythe on him. Get rid of MSS and conflagerator.

An spare points can go into more tomb blades.

He insists that a D-lord is/was needed for them. the 2+ armor save would allow the unit to tank massed small arms fire and the warscythe would give them more reliable punch. To top that, D-lords are jet, not jump making it awkward to keep them together (at speed). I disagree though as I never did this myself, and they lasted just fine before with their invul save. Easier now, due to the higher toughness. That's just my experience though.

I prefer lots of scarabs myself. The spyder usually eats it by turn 2 so I like to have 7-8 bases left to munch some armor. With a lost of missions rolling for night fighting they can usually get a decent cover save for the first turn.

My problem with scarabs is that str 6 fire is very commom, and will absolutely destroy them in no time.

Tau missiles, serpent shields, scatter lasers, multilasers for example.

With only a 6 save they are going to be heavily relying on cover and that RP save to stay alive.

 skoffs wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:
Remember Wraiths are not a mainline combat unit since the nerf

What is this nerf you keep referring to?

Also, no one has mentioned anything about OP taking MSS on his HQ... You sure you want to do that? They don't work the same way anymore, you know.

Sorry by nerf I mean when they reduced the Wraiths damage output and debatably survivability. The loss of PE, a warscythe, a T6 tank for ID and a 2+ save has hurt them bad as a main line combat unit. Their damage output was only mediocre before the nerf now it is woeful where a 10 marine squad can reasonably expect to tie up a 200+ unit of Wraiths for pretty much the entire game.

They are a fast moving tarpit and area denial unit now (and quite possibly the best one in the game for that role), which can be achieved just as effectively by 3 Wraiths as by 5-6 but at about half the cost. So you should never take Wraiths in bigger than 3 man units anymore just take more units rather than more bodies.