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So, like the title says I'm getting ready for my first game between my eternity king elves and Orcs and goblins in a 1550 point game. Seeing as I've never fought them before, I was hoping to get some ideas for the battle. Specifically what units would be the best to take against a horde that'll make my force look absolutely puny. Its also worth noting that no matter what I'm trying out my new frost phoenix a friend got me for my birthday so my rare choice is pretty much full. For everything else I have no idea what to run. The orc army is mainly composed of black Orcs with boys as the core and a giant bringing up the rear. As far as cutting into the hordes I'm tempted to put my specialist focus on sword masters and cold one knights for their multiple high S attacks and on the core ill have two blocks of ten Eternal Guard to hopefully hold a unit or two in place. As far as core is concerned their spears will take away one from their armor saves so they seem like a good option, but I'm also remote to run archers with swiftshiver arrows. Also trapped debating on lords and heroes choices with Alith Anar for the moonbow or just kit out a Prince for heavy close combat so I have a powerhouse when the Orcs reach my lines.
Thank you

Sounds like you are up against a not terribly optimized orc army. (optimized, I'd expect more goblins, savage orcs, and mangler squigs).

As such, I vote execs and white lions. Hit on 3s, wound on 2's with a reroll. Then bring a metal or life mage, so you get bonuses to hit and armor, or toughness and maybe regen.

Disclaimer: I'm a Wood elf player, so I will focus more on the Asrai, though I do face High elves and Dark elves a fair amount.
First up, when it comes to multiple high strength attacks you'd be better off with wild riders. They do lose a pip of strength on the charge but the can pump out basically 3x the attacks. Of course, they're much more vulnerable in a drawn out combats, but it sounds like you want them for one big punch.
With that in mind I'd say it'd probably be worth ranking the eternal guard up to 4 ranks. As well as allowing you better use of their spears you have better chance of breaking the enemy units steadfast (especially if their ranks have been thinned by bowfire), so when you get your cavalry into them (preferably on the flanks!) you stand a much better chance of actually breaking them - otherwise you risk being ground down in protracted combats.
If you do go with sword masters, keeping them in small units of 5-7 for maximised attacks seems to be a good strategy.
Another special option you might want to consider would be Sisters of the Thorn - not so much for their combat abilities but for the easy access to Curse of Anraheir. A good range and the fact that it's being cast by a speedy fast cav unit means that you should never need the higher of the casting values and it's one of those spells that remains useful throughout the battle. If cast on a big unit towards the start you'll find your opponent having to choose between not marching (or charging) his big unit or losing and entire third of them to difficult terrain tests! If that unit does charge they'll be hit with the -1 to hit for that round too!

Now as to using Swiftshiver shards on your glade guard - it's not usually the best option unless you have something to boost the units BS - a High mage casting hand of glory for instance. While a nifty trick, it'll probably only work the once before your opponent keeps by some dispel dice. I'd personally go for mainly Hagsbane shots. The bonus poison wounds usually add up to more than you'd get from the extra shots - especially against tough things like giants!
Also, I believe that darkshards are actually quite a bit cheaper that glade guard with swiftshivers.

As for characters, going fairly magic strong wouldn't be a terrible idea. I'd disagree with kooshlord about lore of metal though. You're not going to be facing anything with a really hefty armour save, which is where metal really shines.
Life is a pretty good choice though- for buffing troops and potential for Dwellers Below. A low level Beast mage for Wyssan's is always useful too. Another good lore to use is Shadow. Low initiative values on the Boys make Pit of Shades and the Penumberal Pendulum pretty deadly, but for me the stand out spells are the Withering and the ever popular Okkam's Mindrazor. Withering greatly helps out with S3 bowfire (making swiftshiver a more useful option), and of course it helps in hand to hand too. The Mindrazor is absolutely deadly combined with anything that can throw out a lot of attacks, which is something Elves seldom have much trouble finding!

Another character worth considering is the oft overlooked Shadowdancer. While not what might be called durable the Shadowdancer's dances adds quite a fair bit of flexibility to a unit of, say, eternal guard. If you're facing massed ranks then the ability to totally discount their rank bonus can swing the combat in your favour. If you've managed to get Mindrazor off on that unit then five WS8, S8 attacks seldom go amiss. They can even attempt a bit of character assassination with Killing Blow attacks! A nice trick with the Shadowdancer, if you want her to be a little more survivable, is to take glittering scales (provided you didn't pay extra for the magic level), which means that most rank and file troops will be hitting her on 6's.

Hope all that helped!

Az

 Aben Zin wrote:

As for characters, going fairly magic strong wouldn't be a terrible idea. I'd disagree with kooshlord about lore of metal though. You're not going to be facing anything with a really hefty armour save, which is where metal really shines.

We use metal differently then. I take it for the buffs, hex and final transformation. The anti-armor spells are gravy, especially given I run elf great weapon hordes.

Shadow is always a good choice though: Miasma, withering and mindrazor are pretty great!

Thank you guys for the input, I had never really thought about a mage (saw friends have bad results with theirs) but looking at the lores I'm definitely tempted between beasts metal and shadow. Fire looks like fun too, so ill have to do alot of debating with myself... Though maybe an arch mage lord and a mage hero? That way I can toy with two. Sadly I dont have any wardancers and proxy isn't my thing but looking at the dances I might have an order coming up in the near future. On to the executioners, I understand that with the great weapons they're S6 as opposed to the Sword Masters 5 but wouldn't I want more attacks against much larger numbers? Unless there's something in missing of course which could always be true.

Redseer wrote:

On to the executioners, I understand that with the great weapons they're S6 as opposed to the Sword Masters 5 but wouldn't I want more attacks against much larger numbers? Unless there's something in missing of course which could always be true.

Depends on what you get outta those attacks. Swordmasters after the first rank can only contribute one supporting attack. And their attacks aren't quite as likely to wound. Let's compare damage output vs orc infantry. Mathhammer!

EDIT: math fail, hang on...

Small unit, lets say 14 deployed 2x7
Swordmasters hit 2/3, wound 2/3 + 1/6*2/3 (murderous prowess)=7/9, ignore any armor. 21 attacks *(2/3)*(7/9)=10.8(repeating) kills
White Lions hit 2/3, wound 5/6+(1/6)*(5/6) (murderous) = 35/36, ignore armor. 14*(2/3)*(35/36)=9.074 (repeating) kills.

in small units, swordmasters outshine white lions at orc-killin.

In hordes of 40, to take maximum advantage of martial prowess.
swordmasters get 50 attacks *(2/3)*(7/9) = 25.925 (repeating) kills
white lions get 40 attacks *(2/3)*(35/36)=25.925 (repeating) kills.

Kills even out at this level. I find myself more impressed with swordmasters than I thought.

Lions strike me more as monster/ heavy armored hunters more so than hordes. But I definitely see why you recommend them. S6 at high weapon skill means dead Orcs. I think ill try the SM this time as far as specialists go. Debating on one solid block or a few smaller squads to hopefully hit the Orcs in the side while eternal guard hold them in position. On the magic, I'm kind of tempted to high magic for the ward save. That way if the orks use a great weapon ill get a save when I'm hit. Also tohing with the idea of some glade riders coming in via ambush after I engage the main horde and hitting the bosses rear flank. If I'm somehow lucky enough to survive it could be catastrophic in the melee if the warboss loses combat and flees.

Death Magic.

Orcs and Goblins have terrible leadership, and live and die by the general and BSB. Being able to snipe out these guys is huge.
Likewise, the all have terrible initiative as a bonus, so just having purple sun in the mix forces your opponent to save dice.
Soul blight is likewise a kick in the nuts, as orcs have terrible armor and bank on toughness to carry the day.
Even aspect of the dreadknight can be useful. Make a cheap eagle cause terror and force some panic tests after taking out the general/bsb.

I can definitely see this causing pandemonium, especially if I can push it up to a larger template. That being said though one hit from a black ork with a 2handed weapon= a dead elf with no save. And that's what's concerning me atm

Redseer wrote:
I can definitely see this causing pandemonium, especially if I can push it up to a larger template. That being said though one hit from a black ork with a 2handed weapon= a dead elf with no save. And that's what's concerning me atm

That black orc is 12 or 13 points, only WS4 and is striking after the elf.
Compare that to say, an executioner.

Also 12 points.
Strikes before the Black Orc, hits on 3+ (WS5), wounds on 2+ with a re-roll, and has killing blow, just to scare the characters.
You have the same armor save, but move faster.
You fight in an additional rank.
Orc and Goblin infantry just can't stack up to elves.
Equal point match ups favor the elves heavily (hitting more often and striking first).

O&G only chance in combat is with character support, and the better option is to bombard the elves with shooting and magic.

I wouldn't worry about combat as much as I'd worry about Foot of Gork going on a warpath (repeated S7 D3 wounding templates coming down) and 6 bolt throwers, 2 doom divers and 2 stone throwers, all supported by fanatics and manglers. With chariots to finish off thinned down units.

Any O&G player that actively tries a combat build is going to have a very uphill battle against elves.

I see, that does put things a bit more into perspective. Thanks for the info. Lol the hits back had me considerably worried

Redseer wrote:
I see, that does put things a bit more into perspective. Thanks for the info. Lol the hits back had me considerably worried

The hits back are going to hurt, but statistically, you've got a huge advantage.

Another factor is base size. If you're going to fight him, maximize your attacks.
If he's 5 wide (125mm with orcs) go 8 wide.
Not only do you strike first and hit more often, but thanks to the smaller base size, you can get a lot more guys swinging.

If I can ill try to get as much terrain as possible. Would be pretty epic to funnel the orks between two large areas of impassable terrain.

Actually given the new magic rules in ET would a loremaster make for the best choice? He's only lvl 2 but he knows all the core rules spells which seems obscene to me. An archmage would be cool for ET specific spell and easier casting, but the loremaster can defend himself when the Orcs inevitably reach my lines

Are you using end times magic?
If so, lore of death is still the answer.
Starting with a lot of power dice and making more is awesome!

-Matt