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2015/03/27 23:45:54
Subject: Is the Riptide still overpowered? And is it possible to make a tau army that's actually fun?
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Sneaky Kommando
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Tau suddenly became a power army in 6th ed thanks to a new codex, and many tears were shed and teeth were gnashed as missilesides and riptides covered the land in the flaming wreckage of previously invincible deathstars and flying circuses. Cries of "OP! OP!" were raised to the heavens, as blue cheese ran amok upon the war-ravaged fields of the far future.
Well, it's been a couple of years now, a new edition has come out, and a veritable tidal wave of codices has washed across the galaxy. Crucially, Tau and Eldar are no longer battle brothers, which didn't so much nerf the more exploitative lists as take them out behind the shed and put a bullet in them, Old Yeller style. And there was much rejoicing. It's a new age; Knights bestride the battlefield, stomping all beneath their feet. Strength D is creeping into codices. Gorka/Morkanauts have made their appearance.
So the first question is: has the meta finally caught up to the tau in general and the riptide in particular? A powerful unit it remains, but is it unreasonably so for its points cost compared to what's now out there? Do missilesides and crisis suits still give people apoplexy, or is there enough to counter these things floating around out there to make them more reasonable?
The second question is this: why do my opponents always hate playing against my Tau? I show up with a monster of an Ork list and everyone is happy even when they get ground into the dirt. I tabled a dude turn 3 and he had a blast. It seems that the orks are always popular when they show up, and despite the possibility for some absolutely killer lists and combos they don't get much hate. I bring Tau, and everyone rolls their eyes, and win or lose nobody seems to have fun fighting them. My Tau list is hardly cheese. Some FWs in devilfish, pathfinders, crisis suits, broadsides, and a lone riptide, led by an ethereal. I play a maneuver game for the most part, it's not like I park my gunline and just roll dice. It's not that they think it's cheese, they just don't think it's fun.
Is this a common view? Are the Tau really just anti-fun?
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Blood rains down from an angry sky, my WAAAGH! rages on, my WAAAGH! rages on! |
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2015/03/27 23:50:05
Subject: Is the Riptide still overpowered? And is it possible to make a tau army that's actually fun?
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Fixture of Dakka
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It might be that they see Tau and think that its just going to be a game of rolling dice and removing models no matter what they do. Then because they started with this attitude they stay that way throughout the game regardless of what actually happens.
Just my thoughts.
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tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam |
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2015/03/27 23:58:48
Subject: Re:Is the Riptide still overpowered? And is it possible to make a tau army that's actually fun?
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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Tau are certainly very strong, but not OP.
They have many advantages. This is an edition focused on shooting, which plays into their strength and away from their weakness. They have mechanics which negate the only universal counter to shooting(markerlights).
The Riptide is the strongest MC in the game because it is one of the few MCs which applies its damage from a safe distance, has very good damage output, and its very durable on top of it. It can be 2+/3++ with FnP to boot. Its still killable, and its costed fairly except for its undercosted big gun. Its just easier to get work out of it, unlike other MCs who have to expose themselves to do their job.
Not OP, just very very strong.
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Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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2015/03/28 00:01:58
Subject: Is the Riptide still overpowered? And is it possible to make a tau army that's actually fun?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Tau break most of the rules in the game.
'Cover save? Oh that's cute.'
'But you have no weapons! Yeah so this unit now has all these special rules.'
'I'll charge! Overwatch. Ok! And this unit. What? And this one. Huh?!'
Not limited to these things, but you get the jist. Just not really fun to play against.
That said, there may be a bit of bias in my opinion. I play DE, Nids and now Orks, so cover is kind of a important thing for me
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YMDC = nightmare |
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2015/03/28 00:03:01
Subject: Is the Riptide still overpowered? And is it possible to make a tau army that's actually fun?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Yeah, I'd say that the Tau simply developed a reputation that the "power"- and eventually all- lists are stationary gunlines.
Stationary gunlines are boring to play, both against and as, IMO, for exactly the reasons that are stated: gunlines turn the game into "roll dice, remove models", which is boring and unfun.
WRT Riptides in particular... it's still a T6/2+ armor, 5 Wound (!) monster. Riptides are why things like Grav exist- because killing a Riptide with more traditional/conventional weapons is very difficult.
Dreadknights are somewhat similar... but have the decency to want to get in your face (IE, close to all your short-range AP2/AP1 weapons), and into combat, where AP2 melee weapons are relatively common, as compared to long-range AP2/AP1 guns.
TBH though I think I might rate Dreadknights and Riptides as about the same in terms of relative "brokenness"; DKs want to close the gap, and are very good at doing so, while a 'Tide wants to be as far as possible... and it's pretty good at that too.
This being said, I rarely see much complaint about HBC Riptides- it's almost invariably the IA, often combined with EWO. I think the problem with Riptides isn't actually their ability to kill things- it's the ability to be passably killy, and nearly impossible to kill thanks to T6/5W/2+, and the Jetpack for the Assault-phase Thrust move, and the long-range guns that let it sit back and shoot things to death.
It's the fact that Riptides are very rarely equipped to close the gap- they generally leverage their mobility to stay at a (long) distance, where it's difficult to kill them.
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2015/03/28 01:57:44
Subject: Is the Riptide still overpowered? And is it possible to make a tau army that's actually fun?
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Imperial Guard Landspeeder Pilot
On moon miranda.
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I think the big fix to to the Riptide is to just drop a wound. The thing is still good, just not quite as absurdly difficult to remove.
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IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights!
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts. |
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2015/03/28 02:20:49
Subject: Is the Riptide still overpowered? And is it possible to make a tau army that's actually fun?
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Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine
Little Rock, Arkansas
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I think riptides are still massively undercosted for having that much durability. More because MC rules + a good armor save is ridiculously better than vehicles. They can beat dreadnoughts in melee fairly often. It takes more melta for me to down a tide than a land raider or monolith. Hell even an obelisk.
IA tides can also deal with literally anything, even nova charging to take out AV 14 with s9 ordnance. (Which happened to me at a recent tourney, incidentally with the tank hunting formation, but he didn't need it.)
I also personally hate it's rules for single-handedly making meq's scared to stand on the field at all for fear of a no-save no-fnp ignore cover template landing on their heads and wiping 160ish points of marines from a mile away.
Maybe if they had some rule like "independent systems: may not benefit from marker lights" along with a durability decrease/price increase, I might be okay with them. Also I think that to tone down the ap2+3 surplus in the game, the IA should at least become a small blast.
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20000+ points
Tournament reports:
1234567 |
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2015/03/28 03:01:11
Subject: Is the Riptide still overpowered? And is it possible to make a tau army that's actually fun?
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Sneaky Kommando
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Riptides are powerful and tough, I think there's no disputing that. But with all the other stuff that's floating around out there, like Imperial Knights, Wraithknights, Stompas, Gork/Morkanauts, the Lord of Skulls, and so on, is there not a reasonable answer to the riptide available to just about anyone? Aside from its toughness, it's got a pretty modest statline; WS2, BS3, I2, and A3 isn't exactly scary on its own.
I guess I'm just surprised by the difference between its reputation and my own experience of its tabletop performance. I was expecting a nightmare, but I've yet to be blown away by it either against it as the Orks or fielding it as the Tau. I'd be much more worried seeing an Imperial Knight show up.
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Blood rains down from an angry sky, my WAAAGH! rages on, my WAAAGH! rages on! |
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2015/03/28 03:25:41
Subject: Is the Riptide still overpowered? And is it possible to make a tau army that's actually fun?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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The Riptide's virtues are it's durability- mostly "over time", wherein it's unlikely to be killed throughout the course of the game- and the fact that the Riptide can more-or-less invalidate large swaths of Marine armies- or others which similarly rely on 3+ armor to protect them.
When you have a unit that can drop an S8/AP2 5" Blast on anything from 0-60", and even throw Interceptor onto it, you not only have one of the best "MEQ killers" in the game, you also have one of the best anti-DS units.
Against Orks, the Riptide's virtues are of little use- at least, using the Ion Accelerator. An HBC-'Tide might actually find great use against Orks, in fact.
Also, WS/I 2 and A3 isn't important for the Riptide, since it doesn't want to be in combat- in fact, it wants to leverage it's JSJ ability to actively stay out of combat. Season with some Markerlight support- though it's really only useful for getting Ignores Cover onto the IA- and you've got something very killy from a distance.
Part of what makes Riptides powerful is that there isn't much to using one- you put it on the table, have it shoot things, and those things generally die very quickly. It's not quite at the level of, say, GravCents doing a "point-and-delete"... but it's pretty damn close.
There's also the fact that most of the other units listed are either:
1) LOW (Lord of Skulls, Stompas, superheavies in general)
2) not actually very good (Gork/Morkanauts)
3) overshadowed by the cheese of Wave Serpent spam (WKs)
4) acknowledged as being super-dangerous, but also very vulnerable to Haywire/Gauss effects, which some armies (mostly DE, Necrons, and the upcoming Skitarii) can bring in spades.
It's also worth noting that a fair amount of the things you listed do best at very short range or even in combat- IKs have their applications as fire support units, while Wraithknights are rarely given their combat weapon, and instead kept either stock or given the Suncannon option.
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2015/03/28 03:36:54
Subject: Is the Riptide still overpowered? And is it possible to make a tau army that's actually fun?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
St. George, UT
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niv-mizzet wrote:
I also personally hate it's rules for single-handedly making meq's scared to stand on the field at all for fear of a no-save no- fnp ignore cover template landing on their heads and wiping 160ish points of marines from a mile away.
Maybe if they had some rule like "independent systems: may not benefit from marker lights" along with a durability decrease/price increase, I might be okay with them. Also I think that to tone down the ap2+3 surplus in the game, the IA should at least become a small blast.
Cry me a river. Clearly you were not around when 4th ed. SM librarians made entire Tau armies afraid to just show up, Stupid "Fear the Darkness". I say turn a bout is fair play. Every army always had Tau's number until this last codex came out. I think the turn about is fully justified.
Also there are lots of things that other armies get that Tau cant. Namely psychic powers. So we have a buffmander with no guns that enhances our other units. Its no worse than a psycher casting invisibility or iron arm on a choice unit of their own. No deny the witch possible on friendly buffs. Yeah there is a chance of failure/perils, but I don't know a single player who doesn't think its worth it.
Also there is now so much ignores cover from several different armies and its all in response to the short sightedness of the jinking rule and other +1 stackable cover modifiers. Getting a 3+ cover save is almost as criminal as the other guy not letting you have one in the first place. Also at least the Tau player has to pay for the chance to remove your cover in models with no guns where as Inferno cannons, baleflamers, etc do it all on their own in a nice little package.
People who complain about Tau (especially in this edition) either are newish to the game or have very short memories of what we had to trudge through for the longest time.
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See pics of my Orks, Tau, Emperor's Children, Necrons, Space Wolves, and Dark Eldar here:
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2015/03/28 08:16:36
Subject: Is the Riptide still overpowered? And is it possible to make a tau army that's actually fun?
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Unrelenting Rubric Terminator of Tzeentch
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office_waaagh wrote:So the first question is: has the meta finally caught up to the tau in general and the riptide in particular? A powerful unit it remains, but is it unreasonably so for its points cost compared to what's now out there? Do missilesides and crisis suits still give people apoplexy, or is there enough to counter these things floating around out there to make them more reasonable?
The second question is this: why do my opponents always hate playing against my Tau? I show up with a monster of an Ork list and everyone is happy even when they get ground into the dirt. I tabled a dude turn 3 and he had a blast. It seems that the orks are always popular when they show up, and despite the possibility for some absolutely killer lists and combos they don't get much hate. I bring Tau, and everyone rolls their eyes, and win or lose nobody seems to have fun fighting them. My Tau list is hardly cheese. Some FWs in devilfish, pathfinders, crisis suits, broadsides, and a lone riptide, led by an ethereal. I play a maneuver game for the most part, it's not like I park my gunline and just roll dice. It's not that they think it's cheese, they just don't think it's fun.
Is this a common view? Are the Tau really just anti-fun?
In tournaments? Yes. Tau are still strong, but not the face-roll they were previously. Keep in mind that this is vs the most broken things you can field (serpents, cent star, AdLance etc)
In a casual setting? They are still tremendouly strong, and easily fall into the OP category.
When you play against orks, at the very least you can both kill stuff, and therefore it's (generally) fun. When you play against tau, especially a good maneuverable tau in a casual setting, JSJ and long range means that sometimes you just roll saves (if you're lucky) and remove models. I've watched a tau player table a marine player while losing one single fire warrior (to a scattered overcharged IA) and not once did the marine player actually get to fire a shot in anger.
I personally find it difficult to make a "fun" tau army, and am yet to face one, due to the fact that anything "good" is also incredibly annoying/frustrating to play against. Riptides with EWO and IA delete anything DS'ing or podding in, Broadsides generally do the same while causing fits for fliers despite not buying skyfire. Crisis with JSJ can ensure they never get shot at with any resonable amount of terrain on the board. Skyrays can make life hell for FMC's with hitting on 2's, wounding on 2's, no saves while being able to jink (on a 3+ no less) with virtual impunity. If you're taking anything else, you're almost intentionally crippling your list. Even something as simple as firewarriors having 30" Str 5 rapidfire guns spell death to anything moving less than 12" a turn and T5/6 or AV12. When you're throwing insane amounts of dice, saves don't really matter much, as, to butcher an old saying, if we can wound it, it will die.
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Peregrine wrote:What, you don't like rolling dice to see how many dice you roll? Why are you such an anti-dice bigot? |
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2015/03/28 08:20:40
Subject: Is the Riptide still overpowered? And is it possible to make a tau army that's actually fun?
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[MOD]
Decrepit Dakkanaut
Cozy cockpit of an Imperial Knight
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I regurlary play against a Tau army and while it's always a hard fight (that I've only won once ), I do enjoy playing against the army and the chap, who not only knows the strengths and weaknesses of his army perfectly, but also knows what to bring or not to keep the game fun for both sides.
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Fatum Iustum Stultorum
Fiat justitia ruat caelum
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2015/03/28 09:01:05
Subject: Re:Is the Riptide still overpowered? And is it possible to make a tau army that's actually fun?
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!!Goffik Rocker!!
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You're the first to call orkanaughts cheezy.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/28 09:02:00
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2015/03/28 10:48:36
Subject: Re:Is the Riptide still overpowered? And is it possible to make a tau army that's actually fun?
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Wing Commander
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Tau are extremely strong, and if one knows how to build to their strengths, they can very easily make OP armies. They have more weaknesses than Eldar or Necrons now, but the "meta" has by no means caught up, especially the spade of very bland codexes since the Tau/Eldar/Daemon triarchy of cheese. These armies have competitive builds which can fight Tau, but are very limited; Flyrants, Centstar, etc, but I'd wager most people don't want to play that way, especially in a casual, pickup game sort of setting. A Tau player will still have their most powerful tools in even the fluffiest of lists.
That being said, its the Riptide - Crisis Suits - HYMP Broadsides with backup of your choice combo which is really frustrating for people to try and fight. Oldschool Fish of Fury; devilfish, hammerheads, skyrays and the like is very good, but nowhere near as challenging for most armies to fight. While they benefit from the clear rules bias in favour of skimmers, their power and points cost is much more in line than Eldar options. A gunline Tau army is not a reasonable thing for many armies to fight, an army which embraces mobility is much more likely to create a decent game for your opponent.
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Therefore, I conclude, Valve should announce Half Life 2: Episode 3.
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2015/03/28 11:08:36
Subject: Is the Riptide still overpowered? And is it possible to make a tau army that's actually fun?
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Shas'ui with Bonding Knife
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The Riptide is strong, but it's equal to Dreadknights, Wraithknights and Imperial Knights so it's fine.
People who claim that Tau are 'unfun' in 7th are mostly just Tau haters since gunlines died in 7th due to Maelstrom and Tau lost their cheesy combos (whilst everyone else kept or gained theirs like Draigo, Tiggy and Grav Centurions).
Tau just have perfect internal balance (except for Vespid) whilst others do not, hence why it is hard to make a 'bad' Tau list, but they cannot make a broken list (which is the opposite for basically every other army).
Tau are far more enjoyable to play against than alpha strikes (drop pods and Gey Knights).
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2015/03/28 11:20:28
Subject: Is the Riptide still overpowered? And is it possible to make a tau army that's actually fun?
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Grey Knight Psionic Stormraven Pilot
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Interestingly the Maelstrom mission with their random objectives (and the house rule that impossible missions are discarded) actually helped me enjoying playing against Tau.
As has been said, Tau are strongest when forming some kind of Gunline; random objectives force lists to be more mobile and mitigate this somewhat.
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2015/03/28 11:31:16
Subject: Is the Riptide still overpowered? And is it possible to make a tau army that's actually fun?
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Shas'la with Pulse Carbine
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I feel a lot of the issue with Tau is hangover from being top dog, after coming from the bottom.
Tau used to be pretty awful and subsequently Tau players were already playing 'well' to eek out a win.
When they jumped up the rankings two things happened, the tau players got a more capable toolset and loads of people jumped on the bandwagon. This saturated the game with tau armies touting 2-3 Riptides and/or other things which are considered powerful
To compound issues the Riptide was added (the first big model made for 6th). If Tau had come after Eldar I believe things would have been different.
I don't think its possible to make Tau fun because of their reputation, mostly nothing to do with the codex. They're still very powerful too as they're not dedicating any points to melee and have the firepower to overcome a lot of things.
Tau have all the advantages in 40k simply because they don't do melee. Melee is so non-sensical in every regards. You're trying to cross the battlefield to stab someone (bringing a knife to a gun fight). Because Tau actively avoid this they're in a stronger position.
Equally they can make a good army by throwing anything together.
Just my 2 pence.
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2015/03/28 12:30:25
Subject: Is the Riptide still overpowered? And is it possible to make a tau army that's actually fun?
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Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine
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This is clearly the case of the divide between friendly and competitive play. In the former, young players, and players predominantly concerned with rule #1 are going to have a tough time playing against Tau. Within the tournament circuit, Tau are now the army that's amusing to bring to see if you can win with it. It's amusing, because sans Nid or Necron allies, you can't.
There will always be a divide between what your average gamer thinks is OP and what tournament gamers think is OP. In fact, the whole concept is rarely used. A tournament player (a good one anyway) doesn't say things like, "Oh that's just OP, I hate that." They say things like, "What stupid combination of stuff am I going to concoct to troll this 'OP' thing off the table?"
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/28 12:32:11
Rule #1 is Look Cool. |
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2015/03/28 12:30:49
Subject: Is the Riptide still overpowered? And is it possible to make a tau army that's actually fun?
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Evasive Pleasureseeker
Lost in a blizzard, somewhere near Toronto
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DrunkPhilisoph wrote:Interestingly the Maelstrom mission with their random objectives (and the house rule that impossible missions are discarded) actually helped me enjoying playing against Tau.
As has been said, Tau are strongest when forming some kind of Gunline; random objectives force lists to be more mobile and mitigate this somewhat.
This.
If you make Tau play Maelstrom missions, then the game really opens up as both players are forced to move around and aim for grabbing their various objective over simply castling up and blowing the living crap out of everything.
If you only play the old bog standard, "line up and fight" KP's style of game, then Tau are never going to be any fun due to the fact they only play in 2 phases of the game, and have the range + shenanigans that allow them to mostly ignore the Movement phase.
Castled up gunline Tau, which is pretty much all they were in 6th is no fun at for the Tau's opponent, as it's just an exercise in removing 'X' models each turn and packing them back in their case.
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2015/03/28 12:34:58
Subject: Re:Is the Riptide still overpowered? And is it possible to make a tau army that's actually fun?
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Wise Ethereal with Bodyguard
Catskills in NYS
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I don't use riptides, so I wouldn't know, but fun tau lists are easy. I play mobile tau (devilfish FWs, suit heavy, pirahnas), and it's fun to play with and my freinds seem to enjoy playing against it.
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Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
kronk wrote:Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
sebster wrote:Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens BaronIveagh wrote:Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace. |
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2015/03/28 13:05:31
Subject: Is the Riptide still overpowered? And is it possible to make a tau army that's actually fun?
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Flashy Flashgitz
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Still havent seen Tau with riptides lose once.... Or even lose a single riptide.. so yes!
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2015/03/28 13:17:35
Subject: Is the Riptide still overpowered? And is it possible to make a tau army that's actually fun?
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Trustworthy Shas'vre
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the one game in seventh I've played, with tau and one riptide (by prior agreement), I lost, by one VP. it was a Maelstrom game against DE, so yes, it can\does happen. It was entertaining though, actually using all 4 nova options in a game (the ECPA was useful, though I never rolled a one (except failed armor saves)), and my opponent DID manage to kill it in the 5th turn.
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'No plan survives contact with the enemy. Who are we?'
'THE ENEMY!!!'
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2015/03/28 13:22:44
Subject: Re:Is the Riptide still overpowered? And is it possible to make a tau army that's actually fun?
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Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine
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The Riptide is not even remotely fairly costed afaic, but they can be beaten. Quite easily with certain armies, too.
The only battlesuit that really worries me is the currently experimental Y'vahra, which I hope doesn't go through in it's current incarnation, as it's broken beyond measure if played correctly.
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2015/03/28 13:33:02
Subject: Is the Riptide still overpowered? And is it possible to make a tau army that's actually fun?
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Confessor Of Sins
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The Riptide is powerful alone, but as with almost everything Tau you need Markerlights to buff it to "OP". And the MLs are usually on squishy units that can be wiped out by angry Grots. A gunline also needs an open board for LOS - play with more terrain and the Tau can't concentrate everything on one unit at a time.
When fighting Tau you just might have different target priorities than against many other armies. If he's relying on ML-boosted attacks, take out the MLs. Rushing my mate's Firewarriors and other infantry with flamer-weilding SoB makes for a high casualty count, but also a high chance of victory. Without ML support his remaining suits usually lack the firepower to wipe me out before the game ends, especially if they don't want to stand in the open eating Exorcist missiles.
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2015/03/28 13:37:24
Subject: Re:Is the Riptide still overpowered? And is it possible to make a tau army that's actually fun?
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Wise Ethereal with Bodyguard
Catskills in NYS
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Yeah, pathfinders die like guard, and if you can't kill cover camping guard, then you might want to take a look at your army.
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Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
kronk wrote:Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
sebster wrote:Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens BaronIveagh wrote:Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace. |
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2015/03/28 13:47:05
Subject: Is the Riptide still overpowered? And is it possible to make a tau army that's actually fun?
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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Jayden63 wrote:niv-mizzet wrote:
I also personally hate it's rules for single-handedly making meq's scared to stand on the field at all for fear of a no-save no- fnp ignore cover template landing on their heads and wiping 160ish points of marines from a mile away.
Maybe if they had some rule like "independent systems: may not benefit from marker lights" along with a durability decrease/price increase, I might be okay with them. Also I think that to tone down the ap2+3 surplus in the game, the IA should at least become a small blast.
Cry me a river. Clearly you were not around when 4th ed. SM librarians made entire Tau armies afraid to just show up, Stupid "Fear the Darkness". I say turn a bout is fair play. Every army always had Tau's number until this last codex came out. I think the turn about is fully justified.
Also there are lots of things that other armies get that Tau cant. Namely psychic powers. So we have a buffmander with no guns that enhances our other units. Its no worse than a psycher casting invisibility or iron arm on a choice unit of their own. No deny the witch possible on friendly buffs. Yeah there is a chance of failure/perils, but I don't know a single player who doesn't think its worth it.
Also there is now so much ignores cover from several different armies and its all in response to the short sightedness of the jinking rule and other +1 stackable cover modifiers. Getting a 3+ cover save is almost as criminal as the other guy not letting you have one in the first place. Also at least the Tau player has to pay for the chance to remove your cover in models with no guns where as Inferno cannons, baleflamers, etc do it all on their own in a nice little package.
People who complain about Tau (especially in this edition) either are newish to the game or have very short memories of what we had to trudge through for the longest time.
Come roll with the BA codex against the Tau sometime, and you WILL be crying. With no grav cents and no smashbane, the BA are up dung creek against Riptides.
"TBH though I think I might rate Dreadknights and Riptides as about the same in terms of relative "brokenness"; DKs want to close the gap, and are very good at doing so, while a 'Tide wants to be as far as possible... and it's pretty good at that too. "
That's the very definition of Riptide >>>>>>> Dreadnight, which is the case. Dreadknights, to me, are almost a bad joke compared to the Riptide. It's the difference between shooty and punchy. I love the moment when the GK player realized he just moved within range of ten plasma guns. Conversely the Riptide is in the corner bouncing every lascannon shot you can send at it, and nothing else reaches and/or penetrates 2+.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/03/28 13:51:15
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2015/03/28 13:50:17
Subject: Is the Riptide still overpowered? And is it possible to make a tau army that's actually fun?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Moscow, Russia
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I think the following list would not be competitive at all, but would be fun as hell (and thematic).
Guerrilla Fighters -- Auxiliaries with Tau Support (requires 2 CADs)
CAD 1 -- Auxiliaries
HQ
Aun'shi
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Troops
Kroot, Kroot Hounds (outflanking; Aun'Shi goes here)
Kroot, sniper rifles
+ however many Kroot you want -- lots
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Fast Attack (all Deep Striking)
Vespids, strain leader
Vespids, strain leaer
Vespids, strain leaer
CAD 2
HQ
Dark Strider
--
Troops
Kroot, sniper rifles, maybe Krootox
Kroot, sniper rifles
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Elites (hunter-killer cadres -- all infilitrate)
Stealth Suits, Shas'ui, fusion blaster, advanced targeting system, markerlight, 2 x marker drones
Stealth Suits, Shas'ui, fusion blaster, advanced targeting system, markerlight, 2 x marker drones
Stealth Suits, Shas'ui, fusion blaster, advanced targeting system, markerlight, 2 x marker drones
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Fast Attack -- Special Weapons Teams (all outflank) --Dark Strider goes in one of these)
4x Pathfinders, 2x Ion Rifle, 1x Rail Rifle
4x Pathfinders, 2x Ion Rifle, 1x Rail Rifle
4x Pathfinders, 2x Ion Rifle, 1x Rail Rifle
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Heavy Support
Sniper drone team
Sniper drone team
Sniper drone team
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2015/03/28 14:43:01
Subject: Is the Riptide still overpowered? And is it possible to make a tau army that's actually fun?
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Shas'ui with Bonding Knife
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"Come roll with the BA codex against the Tau sometime, and you WILL be crying. With no grav cents and no smashbane, the BA are up dung creek against Riptides."
Yes, but you have the best drop pod army so you'll destroy everything other than the Riptide in one or two turns which will make the Tau player lose.
How I wish Tau could ignore as many rules as Blood Angels (assaulting after deep strike and the usual Space Marine shenanigans).
Also, you can charge and tie up a Riptide in combat (charging after deep strike) but you cannot do that to the Dreadknight as it is godly in all four phases.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/28 14:44:20
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2015/03/28 14:46:19
Subject: Is the Riptide still overpowered? And is it possible to make a tau army that's actually fun?
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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If you're trying to rely to me, Pozy, you're on ignore. You might as well put me on ignore as well.
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2015/03/28 14:47:44
Subject: Is the Riptide still overpowered? And is it possible to make a tau army that's actually fun?
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Shas'ui with Bonding Knife
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Martel732 wrote:If you're trying to rely to me, Pozy, you're on ignore. You might as well put me on ignore as well.
Why can't I reply to you? Is it because you know that I'm right and you want people to just agree with your incorrect views?
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