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Hi all, I have been out of the game for a few years, and just gotten back into it very recently I have played a few games with my dark elves. I find I am having a lot of issues dealing with such large units especially against orcs and skaven. I am thinking maybe I need to change to a different to lore (currently been testing out shadow).

I am looking for some opinions if they is anything I need to change?

The armies I verse are Skaven, orcs, beastmen, lizardmen, WOC and VC.

My list is as follows;

Dark Elves (2502pts)

Lords (245pts)

Supreme Sorceress
- Lore of Shadow, Wizard Level 4
- Dispell scroll

Heroes (330pts)

Death Hag
- BSB
- Witchbrew
- Cauldron of Blood

Core (712pts)

Witch Elves x 27
- Full Command
- Razor standard

Dark Riders x 5
- xbows/ shields
- musician

Darkshards x 10
- musician

Darkshards x 10
- musician

Special (1090pts)

Executioners x 30
- standard / musician

Black Guard x 20
- standard / musician

War Hydra
- Fiery Breath

Repeater bolt thrower
Repeater bolt thrower
Repeater bolt thrower

Rare (125pts)

Doomfire warlocks x 5

My only comment is to find a way to get a BSB that's not on such a highly-visible and easily-killed target. Hag BSBs on Cauldrons have a shockingly short lifespan.

 Vulcan wrote:
My only comment is to find a way to get a BSB that's not on such a highly-visible and easily-killed target. Hag BSBs on Cauldrons have a shockingly short lifespan.

A valid point, though I've still had good experiences all round with Hag BSBs, however, I can see how the OP would benefit from another unit of Dark Riders/Warlocks/Shades (or perhaps two) in order to protect himself better from those nasty cannons.

In terms of the list, it's a very good one, and I'm struggling to see how you would have much trouble with large units. Your Witch Elves will shred through anything lightly armoured (Savage Orcs, Clanrats etc), as will your ranged fire, whilst your Executioners can handle tougher, more well-armoured things (like Black Orcs). The Lore is certainly right for this list, as Shadow helps out your shooting and Witch Elves immensely. This is quite similar to a list I run very effectively as well.

Perhaps it is your tactics that are letting you down? You are, as you say, new to the game. It is important with Dark Elves to make sure you get the right charges off. As I said before, your Witch Elves will shred through Savage Orcs and the like, but will struggle against more heavily armoured units. It's up to you to use your fast cavalry (which, as I said, you could perhaps to with more of - perhaps your Hydra could be dropped to pay for these changes?), to make sure you pick the fights you want. Magic can also help here, as Okkam's Mindrazor will make any unit shred through pretty much anything and hence forms a great charge deterrent, whilst Melkoth's can reduce the movement of an enemy making it much less likely for them to reach you on the charge.

One thing I use in my list that helps is a secondary Sorceress. The lore I use on her varies (Metal Dark or Beasts usually), but it always helps fill a small weakness that would otherwise be larger. For example, my list, like yours, is primarily best against lightly armoured opponents, so a Lvl1 Metal Sorceress defaulting to the signature just helps out your Executioners that little bit more in the heavy-armoured opponents department. This also allows you to move the Scroll onto your secondary sorceress, freeing up space for an Enchanted Item on your Lvl4, which you may find useful. I also find it's best to get some sort of Ward Save on your Lvl4, at least a 5++. Another thing I find helpful is another Witchbrew Hag (and some people like to use Tullaris instead) in the Executioners for Frenzy.

Finally, it's worth noting that, whilst friends are usually ok with it, not everywhere will accept you being a few points over the limit. Being strict with yourself about such things will improve your list building and teach you the importance of saving a few points here and there.

TL;DR, your list is very good, so make sure you watch your tactics in game in order to get the best out of it. Some tweaks you could make to improve the list would be to include a secondary Sorceress or, perhaps more importantly, more Fast Cav. Ultimately though, get that practice in!

Hope this helps, any more questions, let me know!

Hey mate, thanks for the info really appreciate the insight. I play my Skaven mate a lot and he usually doesn't take war machines. He usually takes 4big units (clanrats, plaguepriests, stormvermin, slaves), 1x screaming bell, 1x doomwheel, 3x stormfiends, 1x hellpit and lvl4 in there to as well.

I can understand the role of fast cav to take out war machines or chaff or small units, the only issue I have with fast cav is I am not sure what to do with them when there is none of those units to kill on the table from the start of the game. Do I just use them as support for my combat units, the only thing is being 5 model strong they aren't going to do to much.

I usually put my lvl4 with the xbowmen, seems never to be targeted,

I do believe I need the banner of eternal flame in this list.

How does the Metal signature spell help out the executioners? wouldn't life be much better?

I believe the Hydra does quite well as a support unit, although my Skaven mate seems to get the hell pit on it and Hydra gets destroyed. so I guess I can look at changing it up

The witch elves with cauldron just destroy anything in combat.

Thanks in advance!

 The Shadow wrote:

 Vulcan wrote:
My only comment is to find a way to get a BSB that's not on such a highly-visible and easily-killed target. Hag BSBs on Cauldrons have a shockingly short lifespan.

A valid point, though I've still had good experiences all round with Hag BSBs, however, I can see how the OP would benefit from another unit of Dark Riders/Warlocks/Shades (or perhaps two) in order to protect himself better from those nasty cannons.

In terms of the list, it's a very good one, and I'm struggling to see how you would have much trouble with large units. Your Witch Elves will shred through anything lightly armoured (Savage Orcs, Clanrats etc), as will your ranged fire, whilst your Executioners can handle tougher, more well-armoured things (like Black Orcs). The Lore is certainly right for this list, as Shadow helps out your shooting and Witch Elves immensely. This is quite similar to a list I run very effectively as well.

Perhaps it is your tactics that are letting you down? You are, as you say, new to the game. It is important with Dark Elves to make sure you get the right charges off. As I said before, your Witch Elves will shred through Savage Orcs and the like, but will struggle against more heavily armoured units. It's up to you to use your fast cavalry (which, as I said, you could perhaps to with more of - perhaps your Hydra could be dropped to pay for these changes?), to make sure you pick the fights you want. Magic can also help here, as Okkam's Mindrazor will make any unit shred through pretty much anything and hence forms a great charge deterrent, whilst Melkoth's can reduce the movement of an enemy making it much less likely for them to reach you on the charge.

One thing I use in my list that helps is a secondary Sorceress. The lore I use on her varies (Metal Dark or Beasts usually), but it always helps fill a small weakness that would otherwise be larger. For example, my list, like yours, is primarily best against lightly armoured opponents, so a Lvl1 Metal Sorceress defaulting to the signature just helps out your Executioners that little bit more in the heavy-armoured opponents department. This also allows you to move the Scroll onto your secondary sorceress, freeing up space for an Enchanted Item on your Lvl4, which you may find useful. I also find it's best to get some sort of Ward Save on your Lvl4, at least a 5++. Another thing I find helpful is another Witchbrew Hag (and some people like to use Tullaris instead) in the Executioners for Frenzy.

Finally, it's worth noting that, whilst friends are usually ok with it, not everywhere will accept you being a few points over the limit. Being strict with yourself about such things will improve your list building and teach you the importance of saving a few points here and there.

TL;DR, your list is very good, so make sure you watch your tactics in game in order to get the best out of it. Some tweaks you could make to improve the list would be to include a secondary Sorceress or, perhaps more importantly, more Fast Cav. Ultimately though, get that practice in!

Hope this helps, any more questions, let me know!

When there's no independent characters or warmachines for dark riders to kill, they run interference for your main combat blocks. In general, they get in your enemy's way so you can pick the combats you WANT, and avoid the combats you DON'T.

So correct if i am wrong, you sac your fast cav so certain enemy units cant get charges off?

Vulcan 643139 7745589 c6dd60a67f164c8a38cf909467b7415a.png wrote:When there's no independent characters or warmachines for dark riders to kill, they run interference for your main combat blocks. In general, they get in your enemy's way so you can pick the combats you WANT, and avoid the combats you DON'T.

Probably at some point, yes.

But you set up the first couple blocks so you can flee from the charge safely, and force the enemy unit you're blocking to move AWAY from your main blocks.

If you want to be mean, you use them in pairs stacked behind each other. He charges the first one, it flees through the second one. He redirects into the second one, it flees (probably) back through the first one. Since he redirected to the second one, he can no longer complete the charge against the first one... and he can't reach the second one without making contact with the FIRST one. So it's an automatic failed charge, stumble forward 4" on the average.

Next turn, rally the DR and repeat. Done right that unit will barely make it across the board in 6 turns.

To add injury to insult, give the DR crossbows and plunk a body or two off the unit every round...

smally23 wrote:
Hey mate, thanks for the info really appreciate the insight. I play my Skaven mate a lot and he usually doesn't take war machines. He usually takes 4big units (clanrats, plaguepriests, stormvermin, slaves), 1x screaming bell, 1x doomwheel, 3x stormfiends, 1x hellpit and lvl4 in there to as well.

I can understand the role of fast cav to take out war machines or chaff or small units, the only issue I have with fast cav is I am not sure what to do with them when there is none of those units to kill on the table from the start of the game. Do I just use them as support for my combat units, the only thing is being 5 model strong they aren't going to do to much.

I usually put my lvl4 with the xbowmen, seems never to be targeted,

I do believe I need the banner of eternal flame in this list.

How does the Metal signature spell help out the executioners? wouldn't life be much better?

I believe the Hydra does quite well as a support unit, although my Skaven mate seems to get the hell pit on it and Hydra gets destroyed. so I guess I can look at changing it up

The witch elves with cauldron just destroy anything in combat.

Thanks in advance!

Is this for 2500 list? Because 1x doomwheel, 3x stormfiends, 1x hellpit together is over the 25% rare cap.

yes it is for 2,500 point list. thanks for that pickup

I just looked up base cost value for the units;

1x doomwheel = 150p
1x hell pit = 235p
3x stormfiends 85p/model = 255p

Total 640p - 15p over the cap

Cheers,
Josh

Over9000 wrote:

smally23 wrote:
Hey mate, thanks for the info really appreciate the insight. I play my Skaven mate a lot and he usually doesn't take war machines. He usually takes 4big units (clanrats, plaguepriests, stormvermin, slaves), 1x screaming bell, 1x doomwheel, 3x stormfiends, 1x hellpit and lvl4 in there to as well.

I can understand the role of fast cav to take out war machines or chaff or small units, the only issue I have with fast cav is I am not sure what to do with them when there is none of those units to kill on the table from the start of the game. Do I just use them as support for my combat units, the only thing is being 5 model strong they aren't going to do to much.

I usually put my lvl4 with the xbowmen, seems never to be targeted,

I do believe I need the banner of eternal flame in this list.

How does the Metal signature spell help out the executioners? wouldn't life be much better?

I believe the Hydra does quite well as a support unit, although my Skaven mate seems to get the hell pit on it and Hydra gets destroyed. so I guess I can look at changing it up

The witch elves with cauldron just destroy anything in combat.

Thanks in advance!

Is this for 2500 list? Because 1x doomwheel, 3x stormfiends, 1x hellpit together is over the 25% rare cap.