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Can you use wargear while in reserve.

Obviously depends on the wargear.

I'm thinking particularly about fateweavers "staff of Tomorrow" .

The direct instruction is "The staff allows you to re-roll a single d6 of your choice once per turn -declare before you make the re-roll."

an example of a piece of wargear that is obviously used in reserve something that helps reserve roll for example would be good can't think of one myself.

I would say No, I don't have a rule set to back it up, but it does seem rather unfair to have an ability in play that I am unable to remove because I can't kill that model until after he comes in out of reserve.

I remember somewhere stating that if the model is not in play neither are its rules. Although this may have been something from the ITC

I think that stipulation was from a former iteration of the rules. I can't find anything about it currently.

Hate to just throw my hands up in the air and chalk it up to talking to your opponent before hand. I think I'd say anything that declares something like "While the unit is alive," I'd be okay with it being in effect while the guy is in reserve.

if they are in reserve they are not in play so therefore nothing they have effects play. The second they come onto the table thats when their buffs hit the army.

Depends on the wording of the individual rule.

 Ghazkuul wrote:
if they are in reserve they are not in play so therefore nothing they have effects play. The second they come onto the table thats when their buffs hit the army.

This. No unit in Reserve is in play. Things not in play obviously cannot effect the game.

rigeld2 wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:
if they are in reserve they are not in play so therefore nothing they have effects play. The second they come onto the table thats when their buffs hit the army.

This. No unit in Reserve is in play. Things in play obviously cannot effect the game.

You may want to reread that

 Ghazkuul wrote:
if they are in reserve they are not in play so therefore nothing they have effects play. The second they come onto the table thats when their buffs hit the army.

Where does this idea come from, though? I am not sure we're given a line anywhere that defines what "in play" means. Reserves are still purchased and are coming onto the table eventually; who's to say that doesn't count as in play?

TLDR, citation of rule please.

Fragile wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:
if they are in reserve they are not in play so therefore nothing they have effects play. The second they come onto the table thats when their buffs hit the army.

This. No unit in Reserve is in play. Things in play obviously cannot effect the game.

You may want to reread that

... I meant not in play. My bad.


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 SRSFACE wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:
if they are in reserve they are not in play so therefore nothing they have effects play. The second they come onto the table thats when their buffs hit the army.

Where does this idea come from, though? I am not sure we're given a line anywhere that defines what "in play" means. Reserves are still purchased and are coming onto the table eventually; who's to say that doesn't count as in play?

TLDR, citation of rule please.

Reserves are referred to as entering play, or coming into play multiple times. Meaning they were out of play previously.

rigeld2 wrote:

Reserves are referred to as entering play, or coming into play multiple times. Meaning they were out of play previously.

That's not proof that they weren't in play. They could just be in play in a different way while they were in reserves.

Also there still isn't a rule saying that you need to be in play to use special rules and wargear.

Crownaxe he literally just proved it in the useless wording that GW has. By that same logic that you are trying to foster then my dead units are in play just in a different way and can still fire so long as they are in range blah blah blah.

 Ghazkuul wrote:
Crownaxe he literally just proved it in the useless wording that GW has. By that same logic that you are trying to foster then my dead units are in play just in a different way and can still fire so long as they are in range blah blah blah.

The rules say that when a model has 0 wounds left it is removed from play. That is clear that they cease to be in a form of play at all.

A rule saying they enter play does not prove that they weren't in play previously.

Yes, in fact it does "They enter play" meaning that they weren't previously in play. Had they been in play they would not have said "Enters play" Furthermore, unless the unit is physically present on the board or embarked in a vehicle they are NOT in play.

 Ghazkuul wrote:
Yes, in fact it does "They enter play" meaning that they weren't previously in play. Had they been in play they would not have said "Enters play" Furthermore, unless the unit is physically present on the board or embarked in a vehicle they are NOT in play.

I'm in my living room right now. if I were to enter a room in my house from here does that mean i wasn't in a room previously?

Crown, thats fine you can say that they were in play on a different board, but until they are physically present on the board that your army is on they dont count as in play. If I can't target them they aren't in play. Are you just trolling this or do you actually intend to try to use this in a real game?

So models in reserve are set on the side of the table, off of the 48'x72'. If you decide they're in play rules wise, then I reserve the right to shoot them with any gun that can draw distance to that side of the table. I also will say that any flyers are on the ground, and will shoot them normally.

 Pyeatt wrote:
So models in reserve are set on the side of the table, off of the 48'x72'. If you decide they're in play rules wise, then I reserve the right to shoot them with any gun that can draw distance to that side of the table. I also will say that any flyers are on the ground, and will shoot them normally.

nailed it.


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Nowhere in the rules does it say that a Flyer in reserve is flying, so therefore we can shoot it, also, It doesnt say that I can't have an entire 2nd army thats just chilling on that table that I can shoot you with. So therefore blah blah blah....stop trolling.

We from rigeld2's quote we know that being on the table is a seperate state of being in play from reserves so you can't interact between the two.

So no you can't shoot at units in reserves.

So you can't interact between the two... like for instance... giving them buffs?

Some Rules have always made me curious, 'If your army contains Tigurius" found within a Rule on Tigurius himself is an example of one such Rule:
Your army doesn't just stop containing the model because it isn't on the battlefield, so what happens if he stays in Reserves or is even literally Removed from Play....

Then there is the fact other Special Rules also say 'while on the battlefield...' which seems like redundant terminology...
Unless Game Workshop is simply never consistent with this concept at all....

Quite a few Special Rules on specific Models take effect before the game even starts, to modify pre-game Rules
Some even force the Model it is attached to straight into Reserves, so they won't even be deployed to trigger a 'now in play' moment, so how does the Rule get into play?
Or can you have Rules on Models that are not in play, which are themselves still in Play?
... I feel sorry for laughing at the idea that a Rule from another codex could be in play, even when no one is using any Models from it now....

Does beg the question, can anything ever be 'in play' before the game even begins...?
What happens if you have a Rule on a Model that modifies Seize initiatives or the likes?
Did we ever find out where the official 'Game on' Point was?
.... It was in deployment so maybe it is first model hits the table?
.... Or the last?

I ask these questions because I don't know the answers!

 Pyeatt wrote:
So you can't interact between the two... like for instance... giving them buffs?

Yeah. But Fateweaver's Staff of Eternity doesn't give units a buff, it gives the player the buff.

It's okay, my Warhound titan will be in a seperate state of reserves with your guys. They'll play nice.

 Pyeatt wrote:
It's okay, my Warhound titan will be in a seperate state of reserves with your guys. They'll play nice.

We have different reserves.

Awww, but they just wanted to be friends...
Down you two, no base touching!

I still think I'm leaning with CrownAxe here. Do we have somewhere that explicitly defines what "in play" means? It could mean several different gamestates, from being simply "in the army" to "on the board", two most relevant ones brought up in this conversation so far.

So far the best we've got is simply inferring, which means you're going to get as many different answers as people have opinions.

 SRSFACE wrote:
Do we have somewhere that explicitly defines what "in play" means? It could mean several different gamestates, from being simply "in the army" to "on the board", two most relevant ones brought up in this conversation so far.

Sad but true. Take HQs that modify some unit slot, for example - one would think their ability is in effect from the moment you add them to your army list until the game is over. If not you might have an illegal army list while they're in reserves, or when they get killed by that lucky shot turn one.

You really need to read and evaluate the rules for stuff on a case by case basis.

Spetulhu. Valid argument, enjoy an exalt.

Like OldWolves when Logan could take Wolf Guard as troops. If he's in reserve, the army is still legal.


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But I'd like to bring up that this is a rule that affects the construction of an army, in the army building portion of the game. NOT the actual turns of the game.

 CrownAxe wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:
Yes, in fact it does "They enter play" meaning that they weren't previously in play. Had they been in play they would not have said "Enters play" Furthermore, unless the unit is physically present on the board or embarked in a vehicle they are NOT in play.

I'm in my living room right now. if I were to enter a room in my house from here does that mean i wasn't in a room previously?

An example of a rule, something that dictates how things work, could be "I need to be in water to swim". Say now that I'm sitting at my computer... am I able to swim at this exact moment? At what point would I be able to swim? Well it's obvious, I can't swim until I'm in water. There are two states of being, "in water" or "out of water", there is no "well I was in water an hour ago and will be in another hour so I can swim right now right?". You need to recognize that just because your living room and whatever other room are both rooms, they can't be called the same thing. Can you use the stove while you're in your living room, or lay in bed in your bathroom?

So there are two states of a model. Being in play on the table, or not being in play. Just because the side of the table is still a table, it isn't the same as being on the board and in the game. They are two separate distinguishable things. Also, nowhere in the rules does it state that models in reserves are in any sort of alternate play, only that they enter play on the table.

So sure, call them being in reserves whatever you want, even though it's never referred to as that, only called "being in reserves". No matter what it's not the same as being in play, and to use any of your equipment you need to be in play. Models are in a vacuum outside of the game, untouchable and unusable.


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Spetulhu wrote:
Sad but true. Take HQs that modify some unit slot, for example - one would think their ability is in effect from the moment you add them to your army list until the game is over. If not you might have an illegal army list while they're in reserves, or when they get killed by that lucky shot turn one.

You really need to read and evaluate the rules for stuff on a case by case basis.

Don't rules like that generally say "If _____ is included in your army then......" ? In cases where the rules say "in your army" this is generally different from models in play. You get the rules of a unit based on its army list entry, and you use army list entries to construct an army. Everything is based on the army list entries, which never change at any point, meaning an army list entry will still count towards your list even if the model is in reserves. The entry isn't in reserves, the model is.

Spetulhu: Also, that's a Character effect, not a Wargear effect, and as such, isn't pertinant to this discussion.
Logan's shiny Green Bay Packers Belt Buckle (He has one in MY universe) wasn't what let him bring his Wolf Guard (or Offensive line in my world) as troops.