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Made in us
Hardened Veteran Guardsman




Salt Lake City

The premise of this DKoK list is to take complete advantage of the IA12 Unstoppable Advance & Forlon Hope special rules. Basically, every time an infantry platoon is wiped it respawns from ongoing reserves. The plan would be to push across the board in human waves, ignorant of enemy fire and casualties, slow enemies by locking them in cc, MG & MB as much as possible, swamp objectives, and in general send my troops to a glorious death to win by attrition. Would this work? What would you change?

HQ 180 pts.

CCS* - Marshal Karis Venner (IC), Banner of Martyrdom, 4x vets

Troops 1320 pts.

Platoon 1
PCS - PC w/ MB, 4x guardsmen
PIS - Watchmaster w/ MB, 9x guardsmen, MG
PIS - Watchmaster w/ MB, 9x guardsmen, flamer

Platoon 2
PCS - PC w/ MB, 4x guardsmen
PIS - Watchmaster w/ MB, 9x guardsmen, MG
PIS - Watchmaster w/ MB, 9x guardsmen, flamer

Platoon 3
PCS - PC w/ MB, 4x guardsmen
PIS - Watchmaster w/ MB, 9x guardsmen, MG
PIS - Watchmaster w/ MB, 9x guardsmen, flamer

Platoon 4
PCS - PC w/ MB, 4x guardsmen
PIS - Watchmaster w/ MB, 9x guardsmen, MG
PIS - Watchmaster w/ MB, 9x guardsmen, flamer

Platoon 5
PCS - PC w/ MB, 4x guardsmen
PIS - Watchmaster w/ MB, 9x guardsmen, MG
PIS - Watchmaster w/ MB, 9x guardsmen, flamer

Platoon 6
PCS - PC w/ MB, 4x guardsmen
PIS - Watchmaster w/ MB, 9x guardsmen, MG
PIS - Watchmaster w/ MB, 9x guardsmen, flamer

1500 pts. 150 respawning guardsman.


*I thought Venner would make a good HQ/warlord for this list since he is an IC and thus can jump from PIS to PIS for cover and provide some nice orders/buffs. Additionally, this frees up the CCS with the Banner of Martydom to do there job and martyr themselves for a VP.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/04/12 04:53:28


 
   
Made in id
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader






At my desk

I don't have much experience in terms of DKoK, but I know a thing or two about regular guard...

Well, you have meltas for Tanks and Flamers for Infantry. I can see that you're taking advantage of the special rules, and I'm sure that eventually you'll get into melta range, but at least some heavy weapon squads to deal with tanks at range.

3000pts Blood Angels (4th Company) - 2000pts Skitarii (Voss Prime) - 2500pts Imperial Knights (Unnamed House) - 1000pts Imperial Guard (Household Retainers)

2000pts Free Peoples (Edlynd Fusiliers) - 2000pts Kharadron Overlords (Barak Zilfin) - 500pts Ironweld Arsenal (Edlynd Ironwork Federation) - 1000pts Duardin (Grongrok Powderheads)

Wargaming's no fun when you have a plan! 
   
Made in jp
Battleship Captain






The Land of the Rising Sun

Having played this list I will say that you are going to lose most of the time as oponents will castle up in their deployment zone and let you slog it to wipe you out and make you start all over again. But their faces and tears of desperation as you bring back yet another unit are totally worth it.

To mitigate the castling up I would suggest you to drop the 6th platoon and bring heavy batteries to the field 4 heavy mortars or quad launchers with Verner around are really fun.

M.

Jenkins: You don't have jurisdiction here!
Smith Jamison: We aren't here, which means when we open up on you and shred your bodies with automatic fire then this will never have happened.

About the Clans: "Those brief outbursts of sense can't hold back the wave of sibko bred, over hormoned sociopaths that they crank out though." 
   
Made in us
Hardened Veteran Guardsman




Salt Lake City

TheManWithNoPlan wrote:
I don't have much experience in terms of DKoK, but I know a thing or two about regular guard...

Well, you have meltas for Tanks and Flamers for Infantry. I can see that you're taking advantage of the special rules, and I'm sure that eventually you'll get into melta range, but at least some heavy weapon squads to deal with tanks at range.


The IA12 DKoK Assault Brigade can only take HW squads as HS slot, HW platoons which are expensive, very fragile, cannot respawn, and would be priority targets. My rational around long range support is to mitigate friendly priority targets and keep everything cheap, recyclable, and versatile by spreading melta throughout the entire army. Do you think this list would keep the pressure on without long range HW/HS? How far across the board would the Unstoppable Advance make it before the meat grinder stalls?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Miguelsan wrote:
Having played this list I will say that you are going to lose most of the time as oponents will castle up in their deployment zone and let you slog it to wipe you out and make you start all over again. But their faces and tears of desperation as you bring back yet another unit are totally worth it.

To mitigate the castling up I would suggest you to drop the 6th platoon and bring heavy batteries to the field 4 heavy mortars or quad launchers with Verner around are really fun.

M.


Tears of desperation sounds inspiring! However, casteling does sound like a real issue. You don't think 150 troops is enough to push some melta down the board and onto the enemy? Maybe even lock them up in cc? Artillery does sound inticing! Alas, I don't have the models... yet!

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/04/13 05:51:41


 
   
Made in jp
Battleship Captain






The Land of the Rising Sun

Well I haven't played in 7th ed with them but in 6th if your opponent has enough objectives in his DZ he has no incentive to meet you mid field and a crafty enemy will be better served by weakening you as you advance through the table, remember that if you want to run and assault a castle up opponent within 5 turns you will probably have to forego shooting and even if you don't run with the Without mercy order you can only shoot 12".
To win with this army you don't want just to lock them in CC, you want to hurt them by shooting, assaulting and then die so the next wave will shoot and assult in turn.
Difficult to carry out wave assaults with 5 turn games. That's why you need arty hitting them, you have to make them either shoot at your Kriegmen getting closer or deal with the mortars shooting indirect fire from behind a hill or the like.

M.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/13 08:54:39


Jenkins: You don't have jurisdiction here!
Smith Jamison: We aren't here, which means when we open up on you and shred your bodies with automatic fire then this will never have happened.

About the Clans: "Those brief outbursts of sense can't hold back the wave of sibko bred, over hormoned sociopaths that they crank out though." 
   
Made in us
Hardened Veteran Guardsman




Salt Lake City

 Miguelsan wrote:
Well I haven't played in 7th ed with them but in 6th if your opponent has enough objectives in his DZ he has no incentive to meet you mid field and a crafty enemy will be better served by weakening you as you advance through the table, remember that if you want to run and assault a castle up opponent within 5 turns you will probably have to forego shooting and even if you don't run with the Without mercy order you can only shoot 12".
To win with this army you don't want just to lock them in CC, you want to hurt them by shooting, assaulting and then die so the next wave will shoot and assult in turn.
Difficult to carry out wave assaults with 5 turn games. That's why you need arty hitting them, you have to make them either shoot at your Kriegmen getting closer or deal with the mortars shooting indirect fire from behind a hill or the like.

M.


What about upfront, aggressive distractions? If I drop a platoon and shuffle, I could roll a couple Thunderer siege tanks up with the infantry. They would both provide cover and bullet-spongery. One step further, if I drop down to four platoons (still loaded up with melta) I could pick up two Death Riders squads. Thoughts?


   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Netherlands

Don't go for Death riders. Whilst they are good, they will just be the first units your enemy picks off without them having the option to be recycled. I would keep it at 4 platoons and include some Thuddguns and Medusas/Thunderers. This obliges your opponent to do something or be bombarded into oblivion.
Granted, I have never used a list like this cause I went over to the Siege list and use engineers and grenadiers instead of the regular footslogger. It sounds like a fun army to play with and against however.

   
Made in jp
Battleship Captain






The Land of the Rising Sun

Never have used Death Riders I hate all cavalry units in 40k. As a personal thing I would never go for tank support with this list. If an army in 40K screams drown them in blood is this one and tanks kind of stick out.
Now all kinds of artillery...


M.

Jenkins: You don't have jurisdiction here!
Smith Jamison: We aren't here, which means when we open up on you and shred your bodies with automatic fire then this will never have happened.

About the Clans: "Those brief outbursts of sense can't hold back the wave of sibko bred, over hormoned sociopaths that they crank out though." 
   
Made in us
Hardened Veteran Guardsman




Salt Lake City

Singleton Mosby wrote:
Don't go for Death riders. Whilst they are good, they will just be the first units your enemy picks off without them having the option to be recycled. I would keep it at 4 platoons and include some Thuddguns and Medusas/Thunderers. This obliges your opponent to do something or be bombarded into oblivion.
Granted, I have never used a list like this cause I went over to the Siege list and use engineers and grenadiers instead of the regular footslogger. It sounds like a fun army to play with and against however.


You have a good point, Death Riders will be blasted early and quickly. I'll nix that idea.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Miguelsan wrote:
Never have used Death Riders I hate all cavalry units in 40k. As a personal thing I would never go for tank support with this list. If an army in 40K screams drown them in blood is this one and tanks kind of stick out.
Now all kinds of artillery...


M.


Death Riders can be good, they just need proper handeling. Plus, they look awesome! Mosby is right though, riders don't mesh with this list.

IMO, tanks fit this theme fine, especially expendable, point-blank Thunderers. In the DKoK fluff it even stipulates that they usually runs tanks with their infantry assaults and they usually experience high losses, as all respectable Kriegers should!

What is a better and more effective distraction unit. Back field medium artillery or upfront heavy hitting demolisher cannons? I like the aggressive upfront approach, but that could be folly if done incorrectly.

As for artillery options, what about griffon batteries versus the field artillery?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/04/15 02:36:04


 
   
Made in jp
Battleship Captain






The Land of the Rising Sun

I would go with artillery but then I picture DKoK like an early WWI army. Using tanks might be fun too.


Jenkins: You don't have jurisdiction here!
Smith Jamison: We aren't here, which means when we open up on you and shred your bodies with automatic fire then this will never have happened.

About the Clans: "Those brief outbursts of sense can't hold back the wave of sibko bred, over hormoned sociopaths that they crank out though." 
   
Made in us
Hardened Veteran Guardsman




Salt Lake City

I like the idea of artillery too, just don't own any. 8/

It would be so much more awesome if the Assault Brigade could take heavy artillery carriages! The idea of wave after wave of expendable Krieg infantry crashing against the horrors of a xenos invasion or the living hell of a heretic insurgency with multitudes of Earthshakers booming in the distance sounds epic!
   
Made in us
Irked Blood Angel Scout with Combat Knife




I really like this list, how would you reconfigure it to fit in an imperial knight and maybe 3 or 4 artillery units at 1850 points.
The thought I have is run the titan and the kriegers up the table. Use some of the infantry to tarpit objectives and others to
tie up enemy units in CC. The knight is there just for the "oh gak" factor and to draw fire. The artillery is there to force the enemy
to make a move and not just sit in the back line and let me walk into a wall of fire. Another thing I was trying to consider is whether
or not to work in aircraft for counter air and some type of anti tank (with the exception of the knight who will most likely be focused
down early. Not trying to highjack your threat but I've been considering running a krieg assault list of this type for awhile i just
kinda want more options than waves and waves of infantry while fluffy it doesnt really appeal to me to just have one type of unit i guess.
   
Made in ca
Terrifying Wraith





Canada

You need Thudd guns, heavy mortar and some engineers with hades to deep strike behind the enemy line.

 
   
Made in ca
Pulsating Possessed Space Marine of Slaanesh







Whoops... there doesn't seem to be anything here.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/09 21:16:16


3000pts
500 pts
Slaanesh Veteran Marine with Tentacles 
   
Made in nl
Dakka Veteran





Netherlands

 Crabbit wrote:

Death Riders can be good, they just need proper handeling. Plus, they look awesome! Mosby is right though, riders don't mesh with this list.

IMO, tanks fit this theme fine, especially expendable, point-blank Thunderers. In the DKoK fluff it even stipulates that they usually runs tanks with their infantry assaults and they usually experience high losses, as all respectable Kriegers should!

What is a better and more effective distraction unit. Back field medium artillery or upfront heavy hitting demolisher cannons? I like the aggressive upfront approach, but that could be folly if done incorrectly.

As for artillery options, what about griffon batteries versus the field artillery?


Death riders are awesome for their looks and perform quite well if you know how to handle them. In this list they will just be picked off first cause they are the bigger threat.
Thunderers are a nice idea, but to support your backfield arty you can also look at Medusa's. They can wreak havoc with their normal shells or the Bastion breachers. I've played an Apoc-battles this weekend and can tell you my opponents didn't like that unit one bit. . With the lack of the siege carriages you might need some heavy arty to supplement the Thudd gun battery (a must).

Tankwise I would have recommended conquerors but since they are not part of this list (not the right version at least) I would think the regular Russ' are ok. And don't forget the Cyclops for some explosive fun

When it comes to Krieg suffering casualties: I played a massive Apocalyps battle this weekend in which I fielded my 6000 points Krief Siege army. Surprisingly I suffered the least casualties of all parties involved (only some 15 engineers, 20 Death Riders, a conqueror and an Hellhound). I was playing very agressive but all the small units just didn't look like too much of a threat to the opponent. They were wrong for sure since I scored almost 2/3 of our VP's (3vs3 battle for a total of 30.000 points a side). Do not underestimate the Krieg!


   
Made in ca
Terrifying Wraith





Canada

In conclusion, you need your troops walking behind a wall of tanks and some thudd/heavy mortar/medusa to clear the guy hidding behind an ADL.

 
   
Made in gb
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!





I think you could collapse all the platoons into just two- the platoon command squads are very expensive for what they offer.

Alternative of same theme:

HQ
Marsh Venner + CCS + Banner of Martyrdom 180
Quarter Master + 2x Servitors 95

TROOPS
PCS + meltabomb 55
Infantry + meltagun + meltabomb x 3
Infantry + flamer + meltabomb x3

PCS + meltabomb 55
Infantry + meltagun + meltabomb x3
Infantry + flamer + meltabomb x3

HEAVY SUPPORT
Basilisk Tank 125

Or,

HQ
Marsh Venner + CCS + Banner of Martyrdom 180

TROOPS
PCS + meltabomb 55
Infantry + meltagun + meltabomb x 3
Infantry + flamer + meltabomb x3

PCS + meltabomb 55
Infantry + meltagun + meltabomb x3
Infantry + flamer + meltabomb x3

HEAVY SUPPORT
Heavy Quad Gun x2 110
Heavy Quad Gun 55
Heavy Quad Gun 55

Artillery carriages are much more durable than artillery tanks. They also have the same firepower for cheaper points. I would never take the tank version if you can take the artillery version. Heavy Mortar > Griffon.

Death Riders are good, but they need cover to be effective.

What about flyers? The Avenger has a lot of firepower. If you could fit two into the list, that may solve some weaknesses.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/21 12:43:20


Death Korps of Krieg Siege Army 1500 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Hades Drills can definitely make a mess of people trying to bunker up in their deployment zone. DKoK also now have access to fliers if you want some, I think they get the Thunderbolt for cheaper
   
Made in us
Hardened Veteran Guardsman




Salt Lake City

Thanks for all the feedback! I didn't get a notification, so I thought my thread had faded into obscurity. I'll do my best to respond to everyone.

Over all, the consensus seems to be that my pure infantry, conveyor belt list would stall mid-field as a bloody mulch and that some sort of out-of-LoS artillery, tank wall, or equally killy/durable distraction unit is required to get the troops down field. I'm stubborn, so I'm still going to give my human wave list a go!



Automatically Appended Next Post:
rengarftw90 wrote:
I really like this list, how would you reconfigure it to fit in an imperial knight and maybe 3 or 4 artillery units at 1850 points.
The thought I have is run the titan and the kriegers up the table. Use some of the infantry to tarpit objectives and others to
tie up enemy units in CC. The knight is there just for the "oh gak" factor and to draw fire. The artillery is there to force the enemy
to make a move and not just sit in the back line and let me walk into a wall of fire. Another thing I was trying to consider is whether
or not to work in aircraft for counter air and some type of anti tank (with the exception of the knight who will most likely be focused
down early. Not trying to highjack your threat but I've been considering running a krieg assault list of this type for awhile i just
kinda want more options than waves and waves of infantry while fluffy it doesnt really appeal to me to just have one type of unit i guess.


I hadn't given adding a Knight a thought. Which one would you add? Would this be a better distraction unit then more tanks or artillery? Given all the platoon based anti-infantry and anti-armour/MC, what task would you focus the Knight on?

I have a version of this list that includes an Avenger for multi-purpose ground/anti-air support.

Yeah, my list focuses heavily on one type of unit, but should be all kinds of fun for me and the opponent!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/26 17:25:58


 
   
Made in gb
Purposeful Hammerhead Pilot





 God In Action wrote:
I think you could collapse all the platoons into just two- the platoon command squads are very expensive for what they offer.

Alternative of same theme:

HQ
Marsh Venner + CCS + Banner of Martyrdom 180
Quarter Master + 2x Servitors 95

TROOPS
PCS + meltabomb 55
Infantry + meltagun + meltabomb x 3
Infantry + flamer + meltabomb x3

PCS + meltabomb 55
Infantry + meltagun + meltabomb x3
Infantry + flamer + meltabomb x3

HEAVY SUPPORT
Basilisk Tank 125

Or,

HQ
Marsh Venner + CCS + Banner of Martyrdom 180

TROOPS
PCS + meltabomb 55
Infantry + meltagun + meltabomb x 3
Infantry + flamer + meltabomb x3

PCS + meltabomb 55
Infantry + meltagun + meltabomb x3
Infantry + flamer + meltabomb x3

HEAVY SUPPORT
Heavy Quad Gun x2 110
Heavy Quad Gun 55
Heavy Quad Gun 55

Artillery carriages are much more durable than artillery tanks. They also have the same firepower for cheaper points. I would never take the tank version if you can take the artillery version. Heavy Mortar > Griffon.

Death Riders are good, but they need cover to be effective.

What about flyers? The Avenger has a lot of firepower. If you could fit two into the list, that may solve some weaknesses.
i believe the entire platoon needs to die to recycle, so thats a bad idea, also quartermasters are possibly the worst unit in the dkok list.

+1 for quad guns though
   
Made in us
Hardened Veteran Guardsman




Salt Lake City

Singleton Mosby wrote:


Death riders are awesome for their looks and perform quite well if you know how to handle them. In this list they will just be picked off first cause they are the bigger threat.
Thunderers are a nice idea, but to support your backfield arty you can also look at Medusa's. They can wreak havoc with their normal shells or the Bastion breachers. I've played an Apoc-battles this weekend and can tell you my opponents didn't like that unit one bit. . With the lack of the siege carriages you might need some heavy arty to supplement the Thudd gun battery (a must).

Tankwise I would have recommended conquerors but since they are not part of this list (not the right version at least) I would think the regular Russ' are ok. And don't forget the Cyclops for some explosive fun

When it comes to Krieg suffering casualties: I played a massive Apocalyps battle this weekend in which I fielded my 6000 points Krief Siege army. Surprisingly I suffered the least casualties of all parties involved (only some 15 engineers, 20 Death Riders, a conqueror and an Hellhound). I was playing very agressive but all the small units just didn't look like too much of a threat to the opponent. They were wrong for sure since I scored almost 2/3 of our VP's (3vs3 battle for a total of 30.000 points a side). Do not underestimate the Krieg!


Compared to the humble Thunderer, Medusas are much more fragile, cost about the same, and have a very similar main weapon. I would think they would get blown off the table quick. I do like the model better then the Thunderer! Sounds like you have good success with them though.

Conquerors can be taken, but they cost the same as a LRBT in IA12. No Cyclops in IA12... Definitely makes sense to include them in an Assault army though.

6000 point Krieg army! Wow, sounds like it was an awesome game! I would be curious what you packed in with all those points? Do you have pictures?




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Bobug wrote:
 God In Action wrote:
I think you could collapse all the platoons into just two- the platoon command squads are very expensive for what they offer.

i believe the entire platoon needs to die to recycle, so thats a bad idea, also quartermasters are possibly the worst unit in the dkok list.

+1 for quad guns though


This. The whole platoon has to be wiped before it respawns. This is why I packed in as many small platoons, loaded with special weapons and MB, as I could. Yes, the PCS is expensive, but the Krieg junior officer has some nice orders that buff infantry assaults.

I like the fluff and model of the Quartermaster, but IMO they should be ICs with better infantry buffs; wondering from platoon to platoon encouraging glory through sacrifice, redistributing orphaned weapons, and delivering the Emperors divine forgiveness by dispatching the terminally wounded, similar to the Quartermaster that has a short appearance in Dead Men Walking.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/26 18:05:54


 
   
 
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