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Hi all,

My eldar playing friend borrowed my Necron codex and has tailored a list to beat me. So I thought I'll bring something unexpected (and not in the main codex) to throw him off!

Some C&C would be great.

On to the list:

Conclave of the burning one - 470pts
C'Tan shard of the nightbringer
Cryptek w phase shifter, God shackle, veil of darkness
Cryptek w solar staff and phase shifter

Decurion - 1030pts
Reclamation legion - 770pts
Nemesor Zahndrekh
5x immortals w gauss
3x tomb blades w gauss, shield vanes, nebuloscopes
10x Warriors w ghost ark
20x Warriors (Zahndrekh here)

Canoptek harvest - 260pts
1x Canoptek Spyder - vanilla
3x wraiths w 3x transdimensional beamers
3x scarabs

Conclave veils up and smashes stuff up while the rest of the army advances taking any objectives it needs along the way.

So what you all think? Any obvious weaknesses.
Do you think I should make room for gloom prism on the Spyder since they are eldar?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another option I thought of would be to drop the large warrior blob to 15, change Zahndrekh to a CCB O'lord with phase shifter and warscythe and put a gloom prism on the Spyder.

Provides a bit more AV13 for him to deal with and another fast threat in case he goes serpent spam or something annoying like that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another option I thought of would be to drop the large warrior blob to 15, change Zahndrekh to a CCB O'lord with phase shifter and warscythe and put a gloom prism on the Spyder.

Provides a bit more AV13 for him to deal with and another fast threat in case he goes serpent spam or something annoying like that.

I'd drop the beamers and the phase shifters to get more models in the wraith unit. I think you can buy a 2nd god shackle so I'd do that to have a t9 ctan tanking hits for you.

Can't have 2 god shackles and Wraiths should never be above minimum size. Though I agree trans beamers aren't great, they are useful against Wraithknights, if your opponent is fielding them?

Not a huge fan of your Rec Legion config. A solo AV13 piece becomes an obvious target. So either drop it for more tomb blades or get a 2nd one. Tomb blades with ignores cover are brilliant against Eldar as their Serpents rely on cover.

Why can't you have two god shackles and why should wraiths stay at minimum size?

You can't have 2 God shackles because of the rules in Exterminatus I believe page 26. Why would you want Wraiths in bigger than minimum size? They are a fast tarpit with very poor damage output. 3 will wreck any AV10 in the rear vehicle in CC or beat up on small shooting units and tie up enemy CC units. 4 does the same but is more points. When you get to 5-6 you're over 200 points that will get tied up the entire game by a single tactical squad. You want your tarpits to take as much of the enemy out of the game for as few points as possible when your tarpit costs more than the unit they are engaging your enemy is the one doing well out of that stalemate combat.

I'd love to hear some results on the conclave. have not seen anything about the effectiveness. You're on the money with the loadout for that. Nightbringer is the only choice IMO cause the extra attack is great and you can do that plus its random ctan attack. You're cryptek load out is also what i would do. I would look at giving the one with the god shackle the solar themasite as well. Getting reroll failed saves keeps him alive and keeps the ctan at toughness and str 8.

 FlingitNow wrote:
You can't have 2 God shackles because of the rules in Exterminatus I believe page 26. Why would you want Wraiths in bigger than minimum size? They are a fast tarpit with very poor damage output.

Very poor damage output?, Don't they have 4 attacks S6 rending I5? I really don't know since I don't have the codex, but I just played a game against a Necron player last week who fielded 2 units of 6 with whips/coils (sp?), charged with my nurgle bikers, 5 models, T6, with 3+ save, riding with the biker sorcerer and a second charge with my jugger Lord with 4 spawns with endurance, 12 T5 wounds 4fnp. After 4 rounds of combat (2 turns), where my jugger rolled 4-6s on the extra attacks, I finished the 6 wraith with only the sorcerer (1 wound left) and the juggy with 2 wounds left.

If I hadn't have endurance on the spawns they would have died on the 1st turn. The bikes died on the 1st, luckily only 2 out of the 6 wraiths could direct attacks to them, so... if that is very poor damage output I don't want to know what is high damage.

 Lord Yayula wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:
You can't have 2 God shackles because of the rules in Exterminatus I believe page 26. Why would you want Wraiths in bigger than minimum size? They are a fast tarpit with very poor damage output.

Very poor damage output?, Don't they have 4 attacks S6 rending I5? I really don't know since I don't have the codex, but I just played a game against a Necron player last week who fielded 2 units of 6 with whips/coils (sp?), charged with my nurgle bikers, 5 models, T6, with 3+ save, riding with the biker sorcerer and a second charge with my jugger Lord with 4 spawns with endurance, 12 T5 wounds 4fnp. After 4 rounds of combat (2 turns), where my jugger rolled 4-6s on the extra attacks, I finished the 6 wraith with only the sorcerer (1 wound left) and the juggy with 2 wounds left.

If I hadn't have endurance on the spawns they would have died on the 1st turn. The bikes died on the 1st, luckily only 2 out of the 6 wraiths could direct attacks to them, so... if that is very poor damage output I don't want to know what is high damage.

The effectiveness of wraiths has been pointed out to Fling several times, but he/she is insistent they took a nerf, despite a drop in points and an increase in toughness! Each ot their own, every player has differnt things they look out for. They are incredible at surviving. I think Fling is suggesting they are no great at tearing through mobs. Fine. BUt they should be picking on tanks, IC's, MC's etc. To which they do very very well against. I've never lost a game I've had wraiths in.

So 35 is a bigger number than 40 now? Wraiths have their uses, they are the best tarpit unit in the game, but the nerf they took inthis codex has stopped them from being a mainline combat unit. Fortunately the insane buffs to Lychguard, Praetorians and Flayed Ones means the codex is not short on combat units if you need one. There are things they can kill, 3 wraiths kills those things so again no need to increase the cost of the unit. One of the reasons Necrons are struggling to win tournaments is the misuse of Wraiths and the expectation for them to do a job they can't do. A 200+ point combat unit that can be reliably tied up for the game by a 10 man tac squad? No thanks. 40 points for 3 S6 rending attacks (4 on the charge) is not good damage output.

In terms of picking on tanks, ICs and MCs, you are part right. Tanks definitely are an idea target, but as stated 3 does that job. MCs sure but not Wraithknights as they ID you and you only wound on 6s (but get rends). Whilst a Riptide can tie you up for the game quite easily. Which is great if that is 120 points of your army, far less great if it is 200-258 points... T5/6 MCs with 3+ or worse armour are again good targets (except Blood Thirsters yout want nothing to do with 6 Strength D attacks a turn whilst hitting back on 5s), but again 3 should be enough to get the job done. With Wraiths 3 is the magic number.

Well that escalated quickly! Any actual advice on the list?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I don't even know where fling is coming from? I only have one God shackle and a min size squad of wraiths so....

Deleted because it was off-topic

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with Fling, who makes some very good points. But throw six wraiths at pretty much anything and there's only ever goign to be one winner. The thing about lychguard and flayed ones is they are very slow (and praetorians are expensive). With Lych and FO you may be talking about a turn 4/5 charge. Wraiths give a turn 2 charge (sometimes!) usually turn 3. That could be a whole two turns of high combat damage, plus insane toughness and trans beamers, over the other CC specialists.

Ffyllotek wrote:
I'm not necessarily disagreeing with Fling, who makes some very good points. But throw six wraiths at pretty much anything and there's only ever goign to be one winner. The thing about lychguard and flayed ones is they are very slow (and praetorians are expensive). With Lych and FO you may be talking about a turn 4/5 charge. Wraiths give a turn 2 charge (sometimes!) usually turn 3. That could be a whole two turns of high combat damage, plus insane toughness and trans beamers, over the other CC specialists.

Flayed ones have Inf and Deep strike so they can easily get a Turn 2(3 if deepstrike).

As for tarpit units the entire codex is a tarpit unit. I will throw 10 Warriors at a wraith knight and let him eat 1 or 2 of them a turn and go about the game. My Wraiths have taken out an entire Nid army before ( I run them in squads of 6) I would suggest using either 3 or 6. The multiple 3m squads allows you to stay in combat (and have more spyders giving out RP) and tarpit someone. Taking 6 allows you to kill that unit in a turn and move to the next one, it also allows for mulit assaults tieing up more units.

As for the OP list, when you play do you normally use an Assault army or a shooting one?

Taking 6 allows you to kill that unit in a turn and move to the next one

What units are you killing in a turn with 6 Wraiths? A marine squad should kill 1 in a round of shooting plus overwatch and then you kill 2-3 marines a turn until the end of the game...