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Good evening everyone,

I've been playing W40K for several months and, while I think it is fun, the local meta isn't super active and I end up playing my buddy that also plays more than half of the time. Facing off against Necrons for every single game gets old in a hurry. I've been looking at Warmachine and I find it very intriguing thus far.

Would someone explain the main differences between the two games to me and maybe some advice on where to start with WM? From where I'm standing now, WM seems a lot more tactical/smaller scale than W40K and a lot less expensive.

It would be easier to say what the similarities are.

1) You use 6 sided dice.

2) You take measurements in inches.

3) It uses miniatures that you assemble and paint.

4) I guess command checks(the equivalent of Ld tests) are taken the same way.

Thats about where the similarities end.


Also, on the WMH is less expensive that 40k. Yes and no. Its cheaper to get started, and way more friendly to the slow expander/strapped for cash. But overall the ultimate cost will be roughly equal.

All you need to get started is a Warcaster and some Jacks(or a Warlock/Beasts for hordes factions) to have a legal list.

Now is a great time to start since PP just released the All in One boxes for each faction. These are boxed sets which contain a legal 35 point army, as well as a pocket sized full rulebook, and they're actually tactically sound model choices too. And you're basically going to save 50%+ on normal retail with these boxes. They're limited release though and some factions are already sold out.

I would pick a faction you like the look of and pick up the battle box and/or the All-in-one box for it.

Are there any major differences on how the factions play?

Also, I'm assuming Hordes is to WM as WHFB is to W40K?

Just as a note: Jacks/Beasts are Tanks. They're great line breakers & heavy hitters but they need support. The game is not about giant robot Vs giant monster punch-out.

Some armies & casters are more friendly to running jack / beast heavy but in general you will want 1-2 heavy jacks, 2-3 light jacks. There are a few ways to run caster & jacks only but they are rare & not terribly effective (mostly)

Beast heavy is easier to run due to the fury mechanic however again you need certain casters to do it effectively.

There are some casters who will only run 1 jack because of the number of warjack points they get & they wan to spend the rest on infantry & solos.

So do your research before buying. If you let us know which faction you like the look of we can tell you how they play. Or if you tell us a style of play we can give you a suitable faction.

As far as similarities to 40k there aren't that much. It is a VERY different game.
You cannot sit back & shoot all game, it's just not effective and most guns are fairly short ranged (8-14")
If your caster/lock dies you (usually) auto-lose. Even if you don't auto-lose your army just took a HUGE drop in effectiveness.
Melee range is .5" or 2" if you have reach, you don't need to be base to base
Units move & attack as INDIVIDUAL MODELS they just all activate before another unit can go.
When you activate a model you move & attack & do anything else then it is done. There is no "movement, magic, shooting, combat" phases. There is only the maintenance phase where you resolve continuous effects, compulsory actions & generate focus / fury and the activation phase where you actually activate your units.

No, Hordes is not to Warmachine as Fantasy is to 40k.

Hordes and Warmachine are the same game. The difference is Hordes and Warmachine factions use a different system of magic. But they're compatible to play against each other. Nobody discerns between them in normal play.

Warmachine factions use the Focus system. At the start of each turn, your warcaster generates an amount of Focus. This focus is used by the warcaster to cast spells, buy additional attacks, or boost attacks they are making. Or increase their armor passively. Or they can give their Focus to their warjacks, who use the Focus to buy/boost attacks or use other abilities.

Hordes factions use the Fury system. When a warbeast takes certain actions, they have to be Forced. When that is done, the beast gains a point of Fury. A beast can only gain a certain amount of Fury as determined by its Fury stat. at the beginning of each turn, the Warlock siphons Fury from the beasts under his control up to his Fury stat. he can then use the fury to cast spells, buy or boost attacks, or use it defensively so that when he takes damage he can spend a fury to send all the damage to one of his beasts. Beasts which don't have their fury removed can frenzy and attack anything nearby, losing your control on them for the turn.


Factions in general have a broad theme to how they play, but really every faction can do any playstyle. They do have styles they are strongest with. The style is really determined by the chosen Warcaster/Warlock and the units you take. Some casters are heavy attrition, others are fast alpha strike, some are pure support, etc...

Much like Chess, Warmachine has the general rule that if your warcaster is killed you lose the game, but gameplay is focused on Scenario play. Using the Steamroller packet that is released each year and available for free from PPs website. The scenarios change each year and they do minor tweaks to the scenario rules to alter game balance as needed.

 the_kraken wrote:
Are there any major differences on how the factions play?

Also, I'm assuming Hordes is to WM as WHFB is to W40K?

To answer your questions:

1.) Yes. Every faction plays VERY different from the others, even caster to caster there are major differences. That is not to say every faction has one playstyle but a circle orboros alpha strike looks generally very different from a skorne alpha strike.

2.) No. Hordes & Warmachine are completely compatible. The difference is whether or not you use focus or fury. Warmachine uses focus where you are given your focus every turn & assign it out to jacks (usually) up to 3 per jack. These focus points can be used to run, charge, buy extra attacks & add extra dice to attacks. Your caster uses it to cast spells, get extra attacks, add dice to attacks & damage, any extra adds to armour.

Thus Warmachine and Focus is RESOURCE MANAGEMENT. Yo you get your resource & must manage it properly. When you lose jacks it hurts but you get more focus to keep on your caster.

Hordes uses FURY. Your beasts are forced (given fury) to do all the things jacks use focus for. At the start of your turn your warlock pulls off FURY from your beasts up to his FURY stat. If any beast still has fury on it you do what is essentially a Ld test at -1 for each fury left on the beast. If you fail the best CANNOT be activated and it MUST attack / charge the nearest model (regardless of side) and MUST boost attack & damage rolls.

FURY doesn't add extra armour, rather you can transfer all damage you take onto a warbeast by spending a fury on your caster (provided the warbeast is NOT full on fury) note the damage is NOT reduced and does NOT go away it merely moves.

Thus hordes is RISK management. There are ways to mitigate risks but if you run too hot (force too mucch) you may lose control of your stuff for a turn.

Some very general and broad faction playstyles.


Cygnar: All around combined arms faction. Lots of ranged orientated buffs mean they have the best ranged game overall of all the factions, that's not to say you can win all your games with shooting. That's nearly impossible. Jacks are average speed, average armor, and have good offensive power. Infantry are generally hard hitting but very squishy, leading to a reliance on mercenary units.

Khador: Don't let the jacks and Man'o'war fool you, this is a light infantry faction. Jacks are high armor, expensive, hard hitting, and have the most health of any jacks. Also very slow, but many ways of making them super fast. Generally only run 1, maybe 2, jacks at most due to their casters being exceptionally greedy with their focus.

Protectorate: A combined arms, synergy, attrition, and denial focused faction, with a focus on melee over ranged. Jacks are slow, above average armor, with average hitting power. But the presence of stellar support units and models means Menoth jacks hit well above their weight class while being very durable at the same time. Warcasters are focused on army support over personal combat strength and have high focus values, including the highest focus caster in the game(10 focus on Harbinger), most casters are very squishy. Infantry are very good all around. Many abilities focus around denying enemy abilities, they're the faction of "No you can't do that, or that, or that other thing."

Cryx: Fast, hard hitting, and squishy. And all the infantry you could want. And crippling debuffs on some of the strongest casters as far as personal power goes. Lots of offensive magic. Infantry are generally numerous, hard hitting, and on the squishy side, but many abilities which compensate.

Retribution of Scyrah: A combined arms faction with good infantry and a slight focus on assassination. Jacks are above average speed and armor, but have less health than other jacks. once they take damage they go down quick.

Convergence of Cyriss: The best jack faction. They have the most capability to run a ton of jacks due to a unique focus mechanic with their jacks(called Vectors). Infantry are durable, but slow. Jacks are durable and slow and hard hitting, roughly on par with PoM jacks. Lots of repair and recursion mechanics. Casters are heavily focused on support, but can also do well offensively.

Mercenaries: Not a real faction, but rather 5-6 mini-factions. units can be taken in other faction lists dependent on their own specific rules, but can also be run on their own as part of an all mercenary force. Lots of zany rules and tons of variety.


Skorne: Best infantry of all the Hordes factions. Combined arms with a slight focus on melee. Can run more beasts than usual in a Hordes list due to support units. Beasts are hard hitting, durable, and generally slow, but they have many ways of speeding them up to be very very fast.

Trolls: Second best infantry of hordes. Tough(literally), fairly durable, and average speed infantry. Beasts are expensive, hard hitting, and durable. Least amount of beasts of all the Hordes factions usually. Lots of focus on support.

Legion: best beast faction. Infantry are decidedly average. Many lists are entirely beast orientated due to support solos allowing many beasts to be run. Beasts are hard hitting, fast, ignore most terrain rules, and are fairly squishy.

Circle: Focuses on hit and run tactics. Infantry are hard to hit, squishy, and fast moving. Beasts are also fairly dodgy, and hit hard, but are very squishy. They do have some beasts which are very durable, but lose out on offensive power and become slow. Lots of movement shenanigans and non-linear threat projection.

Minions: Like mercs, but even worse. Very few options and limited model choice.

So can Hordes armies play against WM armies?

Also, as far as factions go, I'm mainly interested in Cryx, Khador, and Retribution in WM. I haven't looked much at Hordes yet.

Yes, Hordes plays against Warmachine just fine. They're the same game.

That's pretty cool. I'll definitely have to look more into the Hordes armies now as well.

For a more in depth look go here: http://battlecollege.wikispaces.com/

Cryx & Khador are great starters. Ret is a bit more finesse and will have a steeper learning curve but I say go for it, it will make you a better player.

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:
For a more in depth look go here: http://battlecollege.wikispaces.com/

Cryx & Khador are great starters. Ret is a bit more finesse and will have a steeper learning curve but I say go for it, it will make you a better player.

Thanks for the link. I'll have to do some reading when I get back from work tonight.

I'd almost recommend against a new player going to battle college. Lots of the entries are outdated, or give terrible tactical advice. If you don't mind waiting for an answer I'd recommend just throwing questions up in this thread here, people like Grey and many others who frequent this subforum are often around to provide helpful answers.

Well, I was really just looking for a quick overview of the factions. It seems like it does that for the most part? I'd definitely field more in depth questions here before making any serious decisions/purchases.

Its good enough to give you a vague idea of what stuff does. Just don't look to it for tactical advice.

I like Battlecollege for quick model interaction suggestions more so than comprehensive advice.

I don't have much to add to Grey Templar's summary beyond mentioning that every faction can do almost everything, the difference is usually in how many options you have to do things effectively (Cygnar isn't usually an infantry attrition faction but you do have Blaize, Skorne isn't usually a ranged faction but you do have Aradus Sentinels and Venators...)

 AnomanderRake wrote:
I like Battlecollege for quick model interaction suggestions more so than comprehensive advice.

I don't have much to add to Grey Templar's summary beyond mentioning that every faction can do almost everything, the difference is usually in how many options you have to do things effectively (Cygnar isn't usually an infantry attrition faction but you do have Blaize, Skorne isn't usually a ranged faction but you do have Aradus Sentinels and Venators...)

You forgot Incindiari for ranged. CRA continous fire in a 3" blast? Yes please.

Disclaimer: Examples not comprehensive.

I know just messin with ya, usually people note incindiarii before venators.

Well, I'm officially off work and going to do some reading up. I'll post where I'm leaning from there. You guys have been super helpful so far, it is much appreciated.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Okay, so, for WM, Khador, Retribution, and Convergence all look appealing. And, for Hordes, Legion, Skorne, and Trollbloods caught my eye.

 the_kraken wrote:
Well, I'm officially off work and going to do some reading up. I'll post where I'm leaning from there. You guys have been super helpful so far, it is much appreciated.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Okay, so, for WM, Khador, Retribution, and Convergence all look appealing. And, for Hordes, Legion, Skorne, and Trollbloods caught my eye.

I have heard that Convergence might not be great for a new player as they have some weird rules with their jacks, but it depends how comfortable and how quickly you pick up new rules.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 the_kraken wrote:
Well, I'm officially off work and going to do some reading up. I'll post where I'm leaning from there. You guys have been super helpful so far, it is much appreciated.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Okay, so, for WM, Khador, Retribution, and Convergence all look appealing. And, for Hordes, Legion, Skorne, and Trollbloods caught my eye.

I have heard that Convergence might not be great for a new player as they have some weird rules with their jacks, but it depends how comfortable and how quickly you pick up new rules.

I'm pretty quick when it comes to learning rules, but everything is still up in the air for now. I only know as much about these factions as I've read on BattleCollege and 1d4chan.

I play skorne, I love skorne.

As a skorne player, I'm going to punch you in the face, hard, repeatedly, until you die.

We don't really have fancy tricks or finesse tactics besides "See this thing? Do you see it? It hits like a truck. I'm going to make it hit HARDER and FASTER"

Sure zaal and mordikarr can get tricky, but even then it's still very much punch you in the face. Our units do exactly what you think they will do and they're quite good at it.

Skorne can run extremely beast heavy but do best in a combined arms style. Usually swordsmen / berserkers backed up by Incindiarii and a bronzeback.

Did I mention hitting like a truck? A bronzeback can kill a COLOSSAL/GARGANTUAN in one round & still not be full on fury. Of which we torture it's babies & use the agonized wails as a weapon.

So yea if you like roman legion style, samurai honour disciplined, torturous, god-killing (Seriously we killed our gods) dark elves/dark eldar, we're your ticket.


I also play Ret:
Ret is like skorne's polar opposite. Ret is very finesse based and has a LOT of tricks.

Ret requires very careful activation order and (like convergence) is limited option wise as they are relatively new factions.

Ret CAN completely dismantle an enemy force and take no casualties but Ret is not forgiving of mistakes & being out of position or activating out of order can be very damaging.

If you like sneaky tricky assasinations, glass cannons and an army that hits hard fast & precise but needs practice Ret is a good choice. But again, higher learning curve.

It's not about learning rules but learning tactics. You can know the rulebook inside & out from memory but that WON'T make you a good player.

Think of Retribution as the rapier to skornes mace.

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:
I know just messin with ya, usually people note incindiarii before venators.

Most people don't main slingers. I'm weird that way.

If you are looking for a quick rundown of the factions play styles I would take a look at these links.

https://threediceoverload.wordpress.com/2014/02/05/starting-armies-how-do-the-factions-of-warmachine-play/

https://threediceoverload.wordpress.com/2014/02/13/how-do-the-factions-of-hordes-play/

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:
I play skorne, I love skorne.

As a skorne player, I'm going to punch you in the face, hard, repeatedly, until you die.

We don't really have fancy tricks or finesse tactics besides "See this thing? Do you see it? It hits like a truck. I'm going to make it hit HARDER and FASTER"

Sure zaal and mordikarr can get tricky, but even then it's still very much punch you in the face. Our units do exactly what you think they will do and they're quite good at it.

Skorne can run extremely beast heavy but do best in a combined arms style. Usually swordsmen / berserkers backed up by Incindiarii and a bronzeback.

Did I mention hitting like a truck? A bronzeback can kill a COLOSSAL/GARGANTUAN in one round & still not be full on fury. Of which we torture it's babies & use the agonized wails as a weapon.

So yea if you like roman legion style, samurai honour disciplined, torturous, god-killing (Seriously we killed our gods) dark elves/dark eldar, we're your ticket.


I also play Ret:
Ret is like skorne's polar opposite. Ret is very finesse based and has a LOT of tricks.

Ret requires very careful activation order and (like convergence) is limited option wise as they are relatively new factions.

Ret CAN completely dismantle an enemy force and take no casualties but Ret is not forgiving of mistakes & being out of position or activating out of order can be very damaging.

If you like sneaky tricky assasinations, glass cannons and an army that hits hard fast & precise but needs practice Ret is a good choice. But again, higher learning curve.

It's not about learning rules but learning tactics. You can know the rulebook inside & out from memory but that WON'T make you a good player.

Think of Retribution as the rapier to skornes mace.

This is a fantastic description.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Blood Hawk wrote:
If you are looking for a quick rundown of the factions play styles I would take a look at these links.

https://threediceoverload.wordpress.com/2014/02/05/starting-armies-how-do-the-factions-of-warmachine-play/

https://threediceoverload.wordpress.com/2014/02/13/how-do-the-factions-of-hordes-play/

I will take a look at these now. Thanks much for the links.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Well, after that, Skorne sounds like they are a hell of a good time. But, I'd still like to start out by fielding some Warjacks I think.

Then Khador is probably out sadly, although there is 1 really nifty list that jumps to mind with a few of those clamjacks but its pretty corner case.

Traditional Ret Jack heavy lists;
Double Hyperions with pVyros
Griffon Spam with eVyros

Erm, that's all that jumps to mind in terms of jack heavy builds, but because of arcanists you can generally run a couple of jacks pretty well with most casters.

Traditional CoC jack heavy lists;
Not Axis in tier. That's pretty much it. Sometimes Lucant doesn't run too many, but he'll still run a few. They just love their metal.

 motyak wrote:
Then Khador is probably out sadly, although there is 1 really nifty list that jumps to mind with a few of those clamjacks but its pretty corner case.

Traditional Ret Jack heavy lists;
Double Hyperions with pVyros
Griffon Spam with eVyros

Erm, that's all that jumps to mind in terms of jack heavy builds, but because of arcanists you can generally run a couple of jacks pretty well with most casters.

Traditional CoC jack heavy lists;
Not Axis in tier. That's pretty much it. Sometimes Lucant doesn't run too many, but he'll still run a few. They just love their metal.

I've been doing further research and (if I go Hordes) it will definitely be with Skorne. That being said, Cygnar has become very appealing to me. Them along with Cryx (again) and Protectorate.

You can also add Kaelyssa Force Wall to that list. Ret have some very good jacks, but like Khador they don't have the focus and/or jack buff spells to throw around to make more than 1-2 work well. pVyros gets around this with his feat, eVyros has Synergy aka the best multi jack buff spell in the game and Force Wall gets a heap of extra focus to throw around.

 the_kraken wrote:

I've been doing further research and (if I go Hordes) it will definitely be with Skorne. That being said, Cygnar has become very appealing to me. Them along with Cryx (again) and Protectorate.

Also on this note, I really like the Protectorate and Cryx models.