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So, I would love the chance to delve a little deeper into the WM/H universe. All the factions are intriguing to me (story-wise) and I want to increase the feeling of immersion by learning more. Apart from the short stories that are in Prime/Primal (and the faction books), where can I get my hands on some quality fluff material?

There are RPG books, not sure if there are novels.

There are novels. Skullisland, PPs version of Black Library has some I think.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
There are RPG books, not sure if there are novels.

Ah yes, I've been looking into that a little bit. I've dabbled in D&D with some friends on occasion and always meant to get more into the RPG world.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sining wrote:
There are novels. Skullisland, PPs version of Black Library has some I think.

Thanks for the info; I'll have to look into that.

 the_kraken wrote:
So, I would love the chance to delve a little deeper into the WM/H universe. All the factions are intriguing to me (story-wise) and I want to increase the feeling of immersion by learning more. Apart from the short stories that are in Prime/Primal (and the faction books), where can I get my hands on some quality fluff material?

WMH fluff is a hidden gem. A lot of folks just see it as a wargame and don’t delve any further; then blindly argue that WMH has no fluff, or that it is a pale shadow of what 40k offers. I disagree strongly. WMH has a huge amount of very well written fluff and some very decent writers behind it.

first up: complete chronological list of fiction.
http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?195787-The-Complete-Chronological-Iron-Kingdoms-Fiction
check out the forums as well - often the lead writer of the fiction - Doug Seacat will step in and elaborate on any and all points of the fiction that raise questions. Heck, he once personally explained to me why they don't have orcs in their ip.
http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?77295-Doug-Seacat-on. A collection of seacat's posts expanding on and explaining in (sometime exhausting) details the nature of certain aspects of their world.

The first place for fluff, as you can guess is the rulebook and army books for both warmachine and hordes. they have the ongoing fiction, as well as character back stories, unit descriptions and the FOW books often describe some of the logistics, and actual nuts and bolts of army organisation, and history. they're good solid reads (i love the retribution book in particular, its background material is phenomenol!) but generally, act as a great intro. If you are interested, the fluff goes all the way back to Mk1 and the original books from over 10 years ago. if you get the PP reader app, you can download all the old books for a song. its well worth it, IMO. the hordes expansions (mutagenesis and evolution iirc) have some really excellent story material.

the second place is PPs magazine. No Quarter. it is an excellent read. pick it up at your FLGS, and if you want the older copies, check out the PP reader app, where you can get all the old issues for a few pence. there are short stories throughout the magazine. they also run very popular and very well written fluff articles in the magazine. For example, you have the Gavyn Kyle files, which elaborates on, explores and deepens the fiction behind a lot of the "names" in the game. Not just casters. But other famous individuals too. Sometimes its units (there was one exploring the history and culture of the kayazy). Another great one is the Guts n Gears files, which are like the GK files, but are less about individuals, and more about the fluff behind unit types and warjack chassis (where they were made, how long they were in service for, development history etc). the NQ magazine is well worth a read - it has some excellent terrain making and conversion content and is well worth its price tag. i think they're re-releasing some of the fiction via skull island as well (see below). there is also regular fiction which includes both once off short stories, and stories that continue on the arc from those in books - for example, what happened to Kallus at the end of Domination is explained in one.

The third place (and my personal favourite) is the RPG material. Warmachine originated as a D20 RPG using the DnD open source licence. Their very first adventure was called "the witchfire trilogy" and is a great read, with some interesting little nuggets. The "old" D20 material comprised the character guides (which have a lot of the basic information, cosmology, history etc) 2 monsternomicons (with huge bits of info on infernals, and skorne culture/history, although its generally about the monsters that inhabit immoren), a small exansion on the port of Five Fingers, and the excellent world guide. I cannot recommend these enough; the World Guide in particular. its epic. you can literally smell the smoke when you read it, hear the clanking and grinding of gears and the hissing of steam engines. They're very, very engrossing lore books, and do a fantastic job of bringing the world to life - not just the history, but crime&punishment, trades and learning, entertainment, finance, language, cosmology, and lots of information on locations, towns, cities, forts, and the big names in all of them. Now, the old material is still online (if you know where to look; winkwinknudgenudge) but they're also all being updated by PP into a new RPG series using a proprietary rules system based off of the wargame. So far they have the IKRPG core rules, five fingers, a new monsternomicon and the excellent Kings Nations and Gods books. Again, all well worth the read. Just released is the iron kingdoms: unleashed "complimentary" RPG which focuses on adventures in the wilds, and expands on the races to include tharn, farrow, gatormen etc. I’ve seen bricks that were less thick - I've only just started digging into it but so far I'm hugely impressed! i think the RPG material on its own is stellar, and really does a fantastic job of bringing the world to life - far more than you’d expect from a regular wargame.

The fourth place is PPs publishing wing. Skull island expeditions. https://skullislandx.com/
they don’t yet have the volume or the library of titles of the black library, but what’s there is very solid. I will particularly recommend the warcaster chronicle series (caine, butcher and shae so far), warlock chronicles (makeda and thagrosh), extraordinary zoology (brilliant little read!) and top of the pile is Into the Storm by larry correia (award winning author). The’ iron kingdoms excursions’ and ‘called to battle’ series of short stories that are quite fun, and enjoyable to read too.

Deadnight wrote:

 the_kraken wrote:
So, I would love the chance to delve a little deeper into the WM/H universe. All the factions are intriguing to me (story-wise) and I want to increase the feeling of immersion by learning more. Apart from the short stories that are in Prime/Primal (and the faction books), where can I get my hands on some quality fluff material?

WMH fluff is a hidden gem. A lot of folks just see it as a wargame and don’t delve any further; then blindly argue that WMH has no fluff, or that it is a pale shadow of what 40k offers. I disagree strongly. WMH has a huge amount of very well written fluff and some very decent writers behind it.

first up: complete chronological list of fiction.
http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?195787-The-Complete-Chronological-Iron-Kingdoms-Fiction
check out the forums as well - often the lead writer of the fiction - Doug Seacat will step in and elaborate on any and all points of the fiction that raise questions. Heck, he once personally explained to me why they don't have orcs in their ip.
http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?77295-Doug-Seacat-on. A collection of seacat's posts expanding on and explaining in (sometime exhausting) details the nature of certain aspects of their world.

The first place for fluff, as you can guess is the rulebook and army books for both warmachine and hordes. they have the ongoing fiction, as well as character back stories, unit descriptions and the FOW books often describe some of the logistics, and actual nuts and bolts of army organisation, and history. they're good solid reads (i love the retribution book in particular, its background material is phenomenol!) but generally, act as a great intro. If you are interested, the fluff goes all the way back to Mk1 and the original books from over 10 years ago. if you get the PP reader app, you can download all the old books for a song. its well worth it, IMO. the hordes expansions (mutagenesis and evolution iirc) have some really excellent story material.

the second place is PPs magazine. No Quarter. it is an excellent read. pick it up at your FLGS, and if you want the older copies, check out the PP reader app, where you can get all the old issues for a few pence. there are short stories throughout the magazine. they also run very popular and very well written fluff articles in the magazine. For example, you have the Gavyn Kyle files, which elaborates on, explores and deepens the fiction behind a lot of the "names" in the game. Not just casters. But other famous individuals too. Sometimes its units (there was one exploring the history and culture of the kayazy). Another great one is the Guts n Gears files, which are like the GK files, but are less about individuals, and more about the fluff behind unit types and warjack chassis (where they were made, how long they were in service for, development history etc). the NQ magazine is well worth a read - it has some excellent terrain making and conversion content and is well worth its price tag. i think they're re-releasing some of the fiction via skull island as well (see below). there is also regular fiction which includes both once off short stories, and stories that continue on the arc from those in books - for example, what happened to Kallus at the end of Domination is explained in one.

The third place (and my personal favourite) is the RPG material. Warmachine originated as a D20 RPG using the DnD open source licence. Their very first adventure was called "the witchfire trilogy" and is a great read, with some interesting little nuggets. The "old" D20 material comprised the character guides (which have a lot of the basic information, cosmology, history etc) 2 monsternomicons (with huge bits of info on infernals, and skorne culture/history, although its generally about the monsters that inhabit immoren), a small exansion on the port of Five Fingers, and the excellent world guide. I cannot recommend these enough; the World Guide in particular. its epic. you can literally smell the smoke when you read it, hear the clanking and grinding of gears and the hissing of steam engines. They're very, very engrossing lore books, and do a fantastic job of bringing the world to life - not just the history, but crime&punishment, trades and learning, entertainment, finance, language, cosmology, and lots of information on locations, towns, cities, forts, and the big names in all of them. Now, the old material is still online (if you know where to look; winkwinknudgenudge) but they're also all being updated by PP into a new RPG series using a proprietary rules system based off of the wargame. So far they have the IKRPG core rules, five fingers, a new monsternomicon and the excellent Kings Nations and Gods books. Again, all well worth the read. Just released is the iron kingdoms: unleashed "complimentary" RPG which focuses on adventures in the wilds, and expands on the races to include tharn, farrow, gatormen etc. I’ve seen bricks that were less thick - I've only just started digging into it but so far I'm hugely impressed! i think the RPG material on its own is stellar, and really does a fantastic job of bringing the world to life - far more than you’d expect from a regular wargame.

The fourth place is PPs publishing wing. Skull island expeditions. https://skullislandx.com/
they don’t yet have the volume or the library of titles of the black library, but what’s there is very solid. I will particularly recommend the warcaster chronicle series (caine, butcher and shae so far), warlock chronicles (makeda and thagrosh), extraordinary zoology (brilliant little read!) and top of the pile is Into the Storm by larry correia (award winning author). The’ iron kingdoms excursions’ and ‘called to battle’ series of short stories that are quite fun, and enjoyable to read too.

This was a great response. I really appreciate you taking the time to write all of it all out. This will keep me busy for weeks. Many thanks friend of friends.

 the_kraken wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
There are RPG books, not sure if there are novels.

Ah yes, I've been looking into that a little bit. I've dabbled in D&D with some friends on occasion and always meant to get more into the RPG world.

The original version of the RPG is a campaign setting for 3rd edition D&D, there's a more recent version that uses a system based on the wargame rules that's actually quite creative as RPGs go.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 the_kraken wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
There are RPG books, not sure if there are novels.

Ah yes, I've been looking into that a little bit. I've dabbled in D&D with some friends on occasion and always meant to get more into the RPG world.

The original version of the RPG is a campaign setting for 3rd edition D&D, there's a more recent version that uses a system based on the wargame rules that's actually quite creative as RPGs go.

And where can I get a hold of that one?

It's out of print, so online pdf's are your best best. Or eBay! I'd suggest 'other places' too :p

The new one, of course, is available wherever fine games are sold. Kings, Nations and Gods is an especially good read if you want more information on the various developed nations of the Iron Kingdoms, and the new IK Unleashed book (more Hordes related than the standard IKRPG) has plenty of information on the various less civilized denizens (and I mean plenty: It's 600 pages or so).

I don't play RPGs (although I would if I had geekier friends) but I'm seriously considering picking up Unleashed just for fluff and art, particularly for Minions who I play. I had a flick through a copy of Kings, Nations and Gods and it seemed excellent, but I didn't read much in detail. But yeah the fluff for WMH is massive, which a lot of people don't really realise I think. I'm barely scratching the surface with my knowledge.

Also, the podcast Enter the Crucible has three (so far) podcasts called 'Fluffisodes' which I found very interesting; the first is kinda a general overview (but reasonably in depth as general overviews go), the second is about Skorne and Ios and the third is about Cephalyx and Cyriss. I'm eagerly awaiting the next one haha.

They've released a couple of novels about some of the Warcasters in the game, Butcher's book is supposed to be especially good.

Read "Into the Storm" a novel by award winning author, "Larry Correia." (Author of Monster Hunter International and Hard Magic) It's a fantastic book with more on the way. There's also a story by Dan Wells about the Butcher that's really well written.
PP has really done the footwork to get good writers writing their stories now. Steve Diamond is also fantastic.
http://www.amazon.com/Into-Storm-Larry-Correia-ebook/dp/B00EUSMLLE

And Larry's a big player so he's involved in the universe.
Here's Larry with me playing my Convergence against his Mercs.

 Laughing Man wrote:
...the new IK Unleashed book (more Hordes related than the standard IKRPG) has plenty of information on the various less civilized denizens (and I mean plenty: It's 600 pages or so).

Awesome. One of my big complaints about the new RPG is that I play Hordes armies and there's so little Hordes content in the RPG.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Laughing Man wrote:
...the new IK Unleashed book (more Hordes related than the standard IKRPG) has plenty of information on the various less civilized denizens (and I mean plenty: It's 600 pages or so).

Awesome. One of my big complaints about the new RPG is that I play Hordes armies and there's so little Hordes content in the RPG.

Kings, nations and gods isn't really the right place to discuss those than inhabit the wilds like the blackclads, tharn and the trollkin kriels. It's more about the civilised urban based and heavily industrialised nations- literally, the iron kingdoms. Thing is, thry could have added hordes stuff, but it would have been lip service only, and they'd have had to cut out whole swathes to fit it in. It would have ended up with all aspects-both iron kingdoms and wilderness- suffering. There is so much to say about the hordes side of things (and really, this book is 600 pages, and covers just some of it -the circle, nyss refugee and trolkin elements mainly, but also thornfall, blind water, the tharn, barbarian human tribes etc- there is so much more to say regarding cryx, ios, Rhul, the skorne empire etc) that this is probably only the beginning of things as well.

Regarding unleashed though - you're in for a treat. It's quite literally brilliant. Superb artwork and lore, and a history written from the perspective of the molgur - thry weren't quite the blood soaked untameable and irredeemable savages khardovic, gollivant and the other priest kings of old wished them to be. They were quite cool, in their own way. Great character and role playing elements too. I'm really twisted up about where to take my tharn Rua - wolf rider, blood tracker, monster hunter, scout, brigand, so many choices! You will be spoiled for choice.

I love Larry Correia; Monster Hunter was badass. I'll most definitely be getting my hands on the one he wrote.

Furthermore, this thread has given me more places to find fluff than I'll be able to cover in a month or two You guys have been amazingly helpful. Very much appreciated.

 the_kraken wrote:
I love Larry Correia; Monster Hunter was badass. I'll most definitely be getting my hands on the one he wrote.

Furthermore, this thread has given me more places to find fluff than I'll be able to cover in a month or two You guys have been amazingly helpful. Very much appreciated.

His Makeda novella is fantastic, and she really falls into Correia's writing style superbly. The Butcher novella is also amazing, written as it is by Dan Wells.

 Laughing Man wrote:

 the_kraken wrote:
I love Larry Correia; Monster Hunter was badass. I'll most definitely be getting my hands on the one he wrote.

Furthermore, this thread has given me more places to find fluff than I'll be able to cover in a month or two You guys have been amazingly helpful. Very much appreciated.

His Makeda novella is fantastic, and she really falls into Correia's writing style superbly. The Butcher novella is also amazing, written as it is by Dan Wells.

Dan Wells writes psychotic very well. Which made him perfect to write the Butcher.
Larry also has more PP books coming out as well.

 MWHistorian wrote:

Larry also has more PP books coming out as well.

He does? Nice!

Even though I despise the MHI series, "Into the Storm" is probably my favourite SIExp book.

Hah, I have been playing Warmachine and Hordes for a while, and I am still learning new things about the lore and history of the Iron Kingdoms and the more savage lands of Hordes. It really is quite brilliant.

The Butcher's novel is excellent, never cared for the Butcher too much until I read the book. Gave me a great view of how he became who he was... And now, he is a 'Caster I enjoy greatly. Due to his fluff.

Yup, he's probably my favourite character in the lore due to the whole 'tragic monster' theme he carries.

And the old witch. Man, talk about grim dark. 40k might have an abstract number of billions die in every war, but it's coloured in very broad strokes that pass over the gory details - and it lacks the immediacy and visceral horror of something like the old witch cutting the throat of a new born baby that she pulls out of a sack in order to summon wurmwood for a chat.

Deadnight wrote:
Yup, he's probably my favourite character in the lore due to the whole 'tragic monster' theme he carries.

And the old witch. Man, talk about grim dark. 40k might have an abstract number of billions die in every war, but it's coloured in very broad strokes that pass over the gory details - and it lacks the immediacy and visceral horror of something like the old witch cutting the throat of a new born baby that she pulls out of a sack in order to summon wurmwood for a chat.

Jesus.

 the_kraken wrote:

Deadnight wrote:
Yup, he's probably my favourite character in the lore due to the whole 'tragic monster' theme he carries.

And the old witch. Man, talk about grim dark. 40k might have an abstract number of billions die in every war, but it's coloured in very broad strokes that pass over the gory details - and it lacks the immediacy and visceral horror of something like the old witch cutting the throat of a new born baby that she pulls out of a sack in order to summon wurmwood for a chat.

Jesus.

Yup. Pretty grim!

Deadnight wrote:

 the_kraken wrote:

Deadnight wrote:
Yup, he's probably my favourite character in the lore due to the whole 'tragic monster' theme he carries.

And the old witch. Man, talk about grim dark. 40k might have an abstract number of billions die in every war, but it's coloured in very broad strokes that pass over the gory details - and it lacks the immediacy and visceral horror of something like the old witch cutting the throat of a new born baby that she pulls out of a sack in order to summon wurmwood for a chat.

Jesus.

Yup. Pretty grim!

I didn't realise Old Witch was that dark... Like I know she's not cutesy or anything but the art and model look vaguely cartoony so I never imagined her like that haha.

If you only read one piece of fluff make it Into the Storm as others have said.

I've also heard there will be at least one more book involving some or all of the characters. I think it will be about the Thamarite. But that is personal speculation.

 ImAGeek wrote:


I didn't realise Old Witch was that dark... Like I know she's not cutesy or anything but the art and model look vaguely cartoony so I never imagined her like that haha.

When menoth first walked on Caen, he found the old witch already waiting for him, and even then she was old and stooped. She has guided the hand of history for a long time, and always for her ends, and for the people of the North.

She forged rathrok and gave it to horfar grimmr. She forged the crown of the first Khardic emperor from the swords of his foes. She imprisoned a dragon's attanc for centuries, if not millennia beneath hellspass. She manipulated deneghra and Venethrax to steal it. In the old rpg lore, there was a Nyss human alliance that took down a dragon millennia ago. Was this her doing? Is this thst dragon? She has manipulated Krueger into his current path of galvanising the dragon alliance.

Trust me, if there is anyone you do not mess with, it's the old witch. She turns up in the written fiction of the other factions, and she still beats them.

And she's great fun on the tabletop to boot. I can't wait to actually pick her up, at the last local tournament a guy killed something like 20 odd infantry with Scrapjack in one turn. Kicky-death-machine-go! And as I said and was mentioned before, such good background.

Deadnight wrote:
And the old witch. Man, talk about grim dark. 40k might have an abstract number of billions die in every war, but it's coloured in very broad strokes that pass over the gory details - and it lacks the immediacy and visceral horror of something like the old witch cutting the throat of a new born baby that she pulls out of a sack in order to summon wurmwood for a chat.

B-b-but that is wasting food!

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Deadnight wrote:
And the old witch. Man, talk about grim dark. 40k might have an abstract number of billions die in every war, but it's coloured in very broad strokes that pass over the gory details - and it lacks the immediacy and visceral horror of something like the old witch cutting the throat of a new born baby that she pulls out of a sack in order to summon wurmwood for a chat.

B-b-but that is wasting food!

She summoned a carnivorous soul eating tree which speaks using a human sock puppet for a chat. Your point is invalid

Deadnight wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Deadnight wrote:
And the old witch. Man, talk about grim dark. 40k might have an abstract number of billions die in every war, but it's coloured in very broad strokes that pass over the gory details - and it lacks the immediacy and visceral horror of something like the old witch cutting the throat of a new born baby that she pulls out of a sack in order to summon wurmwood for a chat.

B-b-but that is wasting food!

She summoned a carnivorous soul eating tree which speaks using a human sock puppet for a chat. Your point is invalid

If that's not metal, I don't know what is.