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Hello everyone, I am starting up warmachine/hordes with a friend of mine and I have several questions in general about the hobby.

From reading around it seems the average game size is about 35 points. How many models and how much cash, in general, is that? I am asking more from a hordes perspective, as I think I am wanting to try them out. After reading some descriptions about the factions in other threads, I suspect I will go with the Legion of Everblight faction, however that ties into my second question...

I don't know the rules yet, is an army configuration of all war beasts allowed? I really like the look of some of the Legion war beasts, but not so much a fan of the dark elf looking models or the high fantasy stuff- personal preference, pretty models, but I just don't care for the vibe. I heard mercenaries are a thing, how does that work?

Also, my friend is looking at warmachine and will probably go Khador or Cryx. Is that going to be a problem? Will rule learning be in anyway compatible?

So yeah, how much is it going to cost, whats the best way for a hordes player and a warmachine player to learn the game together, and what is the best way to monsterize your army?

You are appreciated for reading this post and even more appreciated for your replies .

There is no rule for how many models or how much money you spend per points. Some lists can be huge infantry swarms with with 40+ models while others can be beast bricks with barely a dozen. Generally heavy jacks and beasts are the most cost-effective points per dollar.

army configurations are based on field allowance. You will often see numbered allowances of only one or two of a thing allowed in an army. Most beasts have unlimited field allowance meaning any number of them are available. Some beasts are characters and only one of them is ever allowed in a list at a time. You are in luck with legion, they have strong beast-heavy builds.

Mercenaries (minions in the case of hordes factions) can be played as hired hands in place of faction units as long as they are willing to work for your faction. Legion has some reasonably good minion access. The only issue is that minion warbeasts are very hard to get into a different faction list.

Hordes and warmachine play against each other very well. The only problem might be slight confusion in learning. it will help you in the long run to understand how the opposing game operates but be careful to not to mix up rules.

Just working my way down from the top here.
35pts is comparable to an 1250-1500pt game of 40k. 50pts is comparable to 1850 and is the most common tournament points level. The game plays well at all levels though, and when you are starting out 15, 25 and 35pts are good steps as you build up.

The number of models in an army can vary quite a bit, as can the amount of $$ involved (much like 40k, 90 Orks vs 20 Terminators etc). On average I would say you usually see 1-2 heavy jacks, 3-4 units + support models in a Warmachine list. Hordes lists tend to be a bit heavier on beasts, so usually 2-3 heavy beasts, 1-2 lights, a couple of units + support. Model prices are comparable or slightly cheaper than 40k, but the overall number of models in a list is much smaller so it tends to end up being cheaper (I've ended up buying almost everything in my faction for comparable cost to my last 40k Eldar tournament list). So probably $200-300 should get you a full list. The advantage is that the way casters work you can buy a new one for $20 and sub it in and you end up with a list that plays completely differently.

Beasts (and jacks) that aren't unique characters are almost always FA:U (which means there is no limit to how many of them you can take other than points) whereas infantry is typically FA:1-3. So yes a army of all war beasts (or jacks) is definitely possible, the problem is that you won't be able to keep them all under control properly (if they are beasts) or allow them to work at full effectiveness (for jacks). At the very least you normally run a few support models which allow you to run everything properly.

Fortunately if you are interested in running heaps of beasts then Legion are very good at this. This is mostly due to their Fury management support solos which let their warlocks control a larger number of beasts. Mercs work for multiple factions (and are a faction in themselves) which are defined in the rules for each Merc unit/solo.

Literally the only difference between Warmachine and Hordes is the Focus/Fury mechanic, which determines how your caster uses magic and their jacks or beasts increase their damage output. The actual core mechanics of the game i.e. movement, hitting things, doing damage etc are identical. Learning Warmachine and Hordes mechanics at the same time means you won't always be able to help each other out but it shouldn't be a major issue.

You may be able to find the all in one army box for legion and khador on line or in a store (they were limited releases and are difficult to find at MSRP). They contain 35 point armies with a rule book and were listed around $125-130. At the very least if you can find what is listed in the boxes you can get an idea of how big/much the army normally costs.

The only thing you are required to have is 1, and usually only 1, warlock or warcaster.

That warlock/warcaster then gives you a certain number of free points which can only be spent on warbeasts or warjacks. So if you are playing a 50 point list and you have a warcaster/lock with 5 beast/jack points, you have 55 points to spend on your army, 5 of which can only be spent on jacks or beasts.

The Steamroller packet, which contains the scenarios for the year and which most people use to play their games, mandates you cannot be more than 2 points under the agreed upon point limit. This defacto requires you to bring at least 1 jack or beast to use your caster's points.

So realistically, you must take a warcaster/lock and 1 beast or jack. Everything else is completely freestyle.

Legion of Everblight does mostly beasts the best out of all the hordes factions because they have some nice support solos, called Shepherds and Forsaken, which help management. Legion doesn't use minions very often, and its just another layer of confusion for newbies.


To start Legion, I would get the following,

The Battle box, which gets you Lilyth1, a Carnivean, and 4 Shredders.

Then pick up an Angelius, another Carnivean heavy kit(which you can magnetize between the 3 options of Carnivean, Ravagore, and Scythean), a Shepherd, and a Forsaken.

I would also get the Warroom app if you have a mobile device. Its a army list/battle damage tracking/card library app. The app is free, but you'll need to purchase the faction deck, which is about $8. It will get you every card for the faction, letting you look through and decide if you like the rules for the other things in the army. You can also proxy stuff before buying. It's also useful for keeping track of damage during a battle. The app does occasionally crash if your device falls asleep while you are playing, but for the cost of $8 its pretty good.

Thank you for the replies everyone. I am off to search for a multi release!

You can usually build a decent 35 point list based off the battle box for $100-200. Try to stick to plastic kits for troops and beasts if you can. And check different places online for prices.

 Mordekiem wrote:
And check different places online for prices.

Actually imo you should be supporting the local store you play at. We all go online from time to time to save money but don't forget you should be spending the majority of your gaming budget at wherever it is you play. Now if a local store doesn't stock the item you can ask them to order it at a discount, if not then sure go online, but if everyone went online to buy everything the stores would have to close or start charging fees to rent tables.

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:

 Mordekiem wrote:
And check different places online for prices.

Actually imo you should be supporting the local store you play at. We all go online from time to time to save money but don't forget you should be spending the majority of your gaming budget at wherever it is you play. Now if a local store doesn't stock the item you can ask them to order it at a discount, if not then sure go online, but if everyone went online to buy everything the stores would have to close or start charging fees to rent tables.

So much this.
I rely on game stores for places to play so that's where I spend my money.

Amazon is my LGS. So is PP. I also play most of my games at
Home.

That said I support many local stores. But if the cost is stopping someone from getting in the game then do what you need to. Get a player into the game and they are likely to buy from your store later on.

Fair enough. If you mostly play at home or at a gaming club that isn't a store get wherever you want. And if from time to time you go online to save some cash we all do it. Hell I check miniature market religiously for their daily deal.

I'm just saying don't be that guy who buys $400 worth of stuff off miniature market every time you get a new army then wonders why the store owner is giving you dirty looks / starts implementing a membership fee.

I know a store who started imposing membership fees to play on his tables. It was $10/month that got you $10/month in store credit or a premium membership for $25/month that got you $25 in store credit and "Tax free" sales (store covered your sales tax). Some people say it's bs but the owner said "Too many people are going on amazon/ebay and I can't compete with those discounts. It was either reduce hours, fire employees, close shop, or implement a membership system."

There was one my friend told me about who turned Warmachine Wednesday into Midweek Modern for Magic. The WM players were pissed but the owner told them "First and foremost I'm a business owner and my business in my livelihood. You guys buy over half your stuff online, every other month I see a new army full of stuff I have sitting on the shelf that I KNOW wasn't purchased here. The Magic players buy their stuff in store. You guys made the choice to go online because they offer bigger discounts than I can so you can have more money. I made the choice to support the group that supports me so I have more money. We both made business decision and I'm sorry you didn't think the consequences through. You're welcome to play on any empty table but Modern players have priority."

So if you DO play at an LGS don't see the extra money spent as "Wasted", see it as the cost of the table, electricity, terrain, rent, employee salary etc. Those things aren't free and if you want them to be there for you, you need to pay into the system.