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Made in us
Space Marine Scout with Sniper Rifle






I am a big fan of massive guard infantry armys ( i am blessed with an absurd number of models)
i just wanted to run this platoon layout by you all and see what you guys think.
the theme is quantity over quality

PCS ( not sure what upgrades i want with them so i left them plain and dry, their main purpose is orders)

Infantry squad
20 man
melta gun
rocket launcher
bolter on sergeant

infantry squad x 2
autocannon
plasmagun
chimera

HWS #1
autocannonsx3

HWS #2
lascannonsx3

SWS #1
grenade launchers x2
demo charge

SWS #2
melta gun x3

conscript squad
50man + priest

points total comes to a whopping 910 points.
i played a 3000pt game and put 2 of these platoons in there with some leman russ tanks and creed and kell and it did far better than i had initially expected

so let me know what you think? would i be a fool to run this in a competitive scenario?

   
Made in us
Hardened Veteran Guardsman





Northern Virginia

The single biggest threat you're army can face, will be enemy imperial guard. If they bring Hydra's, Naked Russes, Basilisks or Hellhounds, your list is up in smoke. A Deathstrike? If he parked it out of line of site, good luck getting the mobility needed to stop it from firing, because once it has, goodbye a good portion of your army.

The second biggest problem that I can think of against this list would be a Flyrant, or Big Bug Nid list. While you have vast amounts of fire, you don't have very much effective fire against either of those threats. Big Bug nid lists can have over 25-40 T6 wounds with 3+ saves to get through, and you'll have to get all of those wounds down in the 2-3 turns it takes for them to hit your line, because once the big bugs are in your lines, you're dead. Flyrant, it simply comes down to not enough AA shooting that can bring/'slow it down enough to keep it from wrecking your soft-lines.

Don't get me wrong, I love guard, and have over 150 guardsmen to make up 3 platoons of squads, plus platoon command squads >.> I have just found that foot guard has distinct disadvantages in certain matchups. I don't know if you play fortifications or not, but an Aegis or Imperial Strongpoint can be a huge force multiplier in how much more survivable your guardsmen are. Also make sure to supplement your army with fast options, because you're platoons aren't going to go anywhere fast for the most part. They're great at holding rear objectives, especially if you're running battle-forged, but forward objectives are simply better left to other units

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/23 01:27:54


 
   
Made in us
Space Marine Scout with Sniper Rifle






i have an aegis defense line that i use all the time, i guess a second fortification wouldnt hurt

You know i never thought of being countered by another guard army ( im the only IG player i know IRL) its defiantly something im going to have to consider when locking down a guard list for random encounter's.

Hmmmm big bugs. I didnt really think about them either.
i guess in that aspect eldar wraithlords are a bit of a problem.
i mostly play 3000 pt games and put 2 of the mentioned platoons in my army. that usually leaves me with about 1100pts left to play around with.
what do you think i can get to accommodate for my weakness?

i have 3 valk's that i can swap out as vendettas. would that suffice? or should i rethink my platoon altogether?
   
Made in us
Hardened Veteran Guardsman





Northern Virginia

Orders work a lot better with platoon guard, and good orders can make a good amount of shooting rather brutal. Depending on rolls and orders, you can look at tabling enemies running platoons. Against a number of space marine armies, you're list will be pretty decent. A lot of their high value shooting will be killing 5pt guardsmen , and marines aren't particulary known for lots of LARGE blast weapons, so it's not that going heavy platoons is weak. It's just that when you're countered, it hurts.

A huge part of you winning, will be decided by deployment. Will you deploy first, will he, how's the terrain laid out, and how much he's going to Deep Strike. As IG, our best ranged damaged dealers can get ruined by a good outflank or Deep Strike, so you need to deploy in a manner to discourage it, or ensure that whatever the enemy Deep Strikes doesn't kill too much, but gets killed immediately. In example, keep both of your Lascannon HWT near each other...but guarded by a Company Command Squad with Plasma in cover. Now you're opponent has to decide if he REALLY wants to deep strike that mawloc in to kill the HWT's, knowing that Bring it Down can easily wipe it out before it can even enter CC. Even a squad of terminators would be hard pressed to survive that barrage of shots (the termies will probably wipe a HWS, but congrats! they killed 100 pts worth of troops for losing 200 pts worth of elites, i'll take that trade)

If its an objective mission, you could focus on placing whatever objectives you get the place in as much open space as possible, encouraging your enemy to enter a killing field instead of gunning for your rearline. Instead of placing it within your deployment for easiest claim, maybe put it 8" outside of it. Close enough to grab...but more importantly, within 12" for rapid fire, which with FRFSRF is alot of shots. You want to look at what you're army is excellent at, what you're terrible at, and how to encourage the OTHER player to do what you want him to do.

Another thing that helps is the old Distraction Carnifex idea. Maybe pick up a demolisher or two instead of plain russes, and use that to rush his line. The threat of that 24" S10 gun can draw alot of inadvised fire that has a low chance to pen AV14. Theres also the Deathstrike Missile, which can preoccupy you're opponent if you can hide it well (such as behind a bastion in the corner of your deployment zone) Alternatively, a Skyshield landing pad can start a Vendetta on the board with its upgrade, and then you can park it on their all game for an AV12 4++ lascannon platform that can shoot just about anything it wants on the board. That can draw fire away from squishy targets (like your HWT's) as well. The key here really is to put something that looks like a bigger threat than it is, and get it to draw fire that it really just doesn't warrant the attention of. If an enemy imperial knight has to charge laterally across the board to keep your demolisher from wrecking his support units, Great! Something far more expensive spent a turn doing something it would rather have not done, because you gave him no other choice. And now YOU have an additional turn to try and shoot down the knight before it reaches your line.

With the Vendetta point increase and transport downgrade, I'm not as fond of them as I used to be. I think the points can be better spent in other sections of our codex.

Right now, what you've described is a list that, excepting the russes, is fairly short ranged. Even if its only a unit of 3 Wyverns's, you might want to look at some of the IG's artillery options. It'll give you some long range oomph, and help you deny further out objectives (3 Wyverns's will tear almost any infantry off of an objective as long as its not inside a building)

*edited Hydra to Wyvern because derp*

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/23 03:02:00


 
   
Made in us
Space Marine Scout with Sniper Rifle






I guess this is a good excuse to pick up some basalisk boxs.
are hydras worth it against non flyers?
Last time i recalled the skyfire rule of those guns forces me to fire snap shots against anything that isnt a skimmer or a flyer
   
Made in us
Hardened Veteran Guardsman





Northern Virginia

Funny thing is I keep saying Hydra, but totally mean Wyvern (same box and all that ) . Guard has LOTS of vehicles, and if you're not careful you can end up with a parking lot of a collection so you can have a lot of different lists for different playstyles. I will vehemently recommend against Hydra's, Use the icarus quad(or lascannon) that come with fortifications, or pay an Ally tax and bring something that's actually decent against air >.> The Hydra has a good range, but its too expensive for being cruddy against AV12, completely mediocre against Flyrants, and wonderful against Harpies (because Harpies are a thing?) .

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/23 03:09:34


 
   
Made in us
Space Marine Scout with Sniper Rifle






Ohhhhhh ok i was guna say haha.
hmmm ive never played with the wyvern but ive heard that it is stupidly overpowered against horde armys.

as a side note i would like to mention that i have 12 leman russ's ( emperors fist tank company ftw)
do you think a hand full of them would work the kinks out?
   
Made in us
Grim Rune Priest in the Eye of the Storm





Riverside CA

You want some real fun with the Landing Pad, after the Valk leaves move a large Combined Squad or Conscript Squad on it to give them the 4++ Save.

Space Wolf Player Since 1989
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Made in ca
Ghastly Grave Guard





Canada

I feel you on that. I've always wanted to have 2-3 FULL Platoons. I'm talking PCS, 5 infantry squads, 5 HWS, 3 SWS and 50 Conscripts. I currently have about a couple hundred Guardsmen, but I don't have anything to represent Conscripts.
   
Made in us
Killer Klaivex




Oceanside, CA

I found that giving everyone krak grenades helps out a lot. Suddenly big bugs that make it to the infantry are fights squads of guys with 10 S6 AP4 attacks. It's totally worth the 10 points.
I used to run about 200 guard infantry, and the extra 200 krak grenades often made the difference. It's doesn't let you win any combat, but it does let every single squad chip away.
Your opponent isn't "safe" in combat, he's still making saves.

And the big threat to a list like this is Nova powers. I've got grey knights and blood angels, and I can tell you, you won't like 3 squads of purifiers arriving via BA drop pod into the middle of your army, combat squading in 6 units and then bringing the Cleansing Flames. Each squad pumping out 2D6 S5 AP4 no cover hits over a 9" area, setting the survivors on fire with soul blaze. It's what exterminatus looks like.

-Matt

 thedarkavenger wrote:

So. I got a game with this list in. First game in at least 3-4 months.
 
   
Made in gb
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan



UK

The Eldar WC4 power. Larger than Large Blast...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Friend of mine just sent me this:

"The Tyranid Codex, where I learned the truth about despair, as will you. There's a reason why this codex is the worst hell on earth... Hope. ."
Too be fair.. it's all worked out quite well!

Heh.  
   
Made in hu
Dakka Veteran




It seems to me that you are just taking mediocre units and giving them mediocre weapons without a concept or support. You put special and heavy weapons on BS3, you don't have anti-tank, you don't have anything against 2+/3+, apart of mass of auto cannons, you don't have anti-air.
   
Made in us
Jealous that Horus is Warmaster




Tampa, Florida

If you want to run a horde list, I'd try Renegades of Vraks.

They have a formation that lets you take platoons of 30 man squads that respawn outflanking on a 2+ when they die, complete with all upgrades they had.

EDIT: As an example, here's a 1850 pt list with that detachment. Remember that every infantry squad outside of the CCS respawns on a 2+, each has 30+ men, and the non-mutant squads have 2 lascannons each with krak grenades.
Endless Respawns (1849pts)
HQ
Renegade Command Squad
4x Disciple w/ Lasgun, Flak Armour
Arch Demagogue
Carapace Armour, Covenant of Nurgle, Laspistol, Master of the Horde, Shotgun, Warlord

Renegade Enforcers Cadre
Enforcer x2
Close Combat Weapon, Flak Armour, Laspistol


Troops
Renegade Infantry Platoon x2
Platoon Command Squad
Krak Grenades for Squad, Militia Training, 8x Renegade w/ Lasgun
Lascannon Team
Laspistol
Renegade Infantry Squad x4
Krak Grenades for Squad, Militia Training, 26x Renegade w/ Lasgun
2x Lascannon Team
2x Laspistol

Renegade Mutant Rabble x2
50x Mutant w/ Lasgun


Heavy Support
Renegade Rapier Laser Destroyer Battery
Militia Training
3x Rapier w/ Additional Crew
6x Crew
6x Lasgun

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/27 19:04:51


Rule #1 is Look Cool.
Rule #2 is Do Cool S*%* Even If It's Tactically Inadvisable
Winning is something like Rule #17.
-The Shrike

Overkill is officially defined by the Commissariat and the Munitorium as: "The minimum amount of force that is to be brought to bear against the enemies of the Emperor."

 
   
Made in us
Hardened Veteran Guardsman






I don't know if you're intent on using absolutely no vehicles, but if you want to go footguard it is really useful to put your CCS and PCS in chimeras or tauroxen. That'll protect them a bit as they follow your blobs and give them orders. It also extends the range of buffs like the PE from Kurov's aquila or a regimental standard.

I also would say that if you're going to go blob, go all blob -- don't break up your infantry squads and determine whether or not they are going to tout special weapons and run towards the enemy, or have heavy weapons and deck chair at the back on an objective. If they're going forward through the open field, they're really going to need the staying power of numbers to survive long enough to get into range. If they're primarily sitting back, then they only become tougher for your opponent to move them off of it. It's really useful to have 50 bodies on a backfield objective.

For a lot of lists I run 50 conscripts (w/ priest) and 3 combined infantry squads with 3 plasma guns and a psyker. Works pretty well. Conscripts can be invaluable if used creatively.

Also, I'm sure you know this, but you'll need at least one vet squad or another platoon as a second troops choice to make your list there legal.

2,500 points

1,850

Currently Coven-curious

38-30 since returning to the game in 2013

 
   
 
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