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Hi all,

Was reading a website about a themed army - Shrine of the Black Scorpion - based on Striking Scorpions and frankly, I bloody love the idea.

Would appreciate everyone's opinions on this CAD (with Aspect Host +1 WS). Ultimately, this would be led by Karandras but I don't have the points.

HQ
Autarch "The Black Scorpion" - 88pts (will join one of the Scorpion units)
Mandiblasters
Scorpion Chainsword
Banshee Mask

TROOPS
Windriders - 51pts

Windriders - 51pts

ELITES
Striking Scorpions - 210pts
+5 Striking Scorpions
Exarch with Scorpion Claw

Striking Scorpions - 210pts
+5 Striking Scorpions
Exarch with Scorpion Claw

Striking Scorpions - 210pts
+5 Striking Scorpions
Exarch with Scorpion Claw

FAST ATTACK
Wave Serpent (for Scorpions) - 120pts
Twin-linked Shuriken Cannons

Wave Serpent (for Scorpions) - 120pts
Twin-linked Shuriken Cannons

Wave Serpent (for Scorpions) - 110pts

HEAVY
Wraithlord - 165pts
Flamer
Ghostglaive
2x Bright Lance

Wraithlord - 165pts
Flamer
Ghostglaive
2x Bright Lance

TOTAL - 1500pts

I love Striking Scorpions and the idea of an army based around them sounds exciting.

So i think this is how your army is broken down currently...

Aspect Host (+1 WS)
3x units of Striking Scorpions
3x Wave Serpent dedicated transports

CAD
Autarch
2x Windriders
2x Wraithlords

Alright, a couple notes...

- Striking Scorpions do not need a Wave Serpent. One of their key advantages over the other melee units in the codex is that they don't need a transport because of their ability to infiltrate and have Shrouding until they get into melee.
- Wraithlords don't seem to have a place in this army. They'd be stuck way behind everything else. If you want the Bright Lances then for much fewer points you can include War Walkers.

Based on that, I'd suggest dropping the Wave Serpents and Wraithlords.

Add a couple units of War Walker with Bright Lances to handle vehicles. I'd say 2 units of 2 War Walkers would be good. With Scout, they can outflank, taking advantage of the Autarch's reserves manipulation. I'd start them on the board if there was a threat they could take out on turn 1.

The Autarch can not take both the Banshee Mask and the Mandiblasters. I also don't believe he can infiltrate with the Striking Scorpions that he joins. I'd suggest giving him a Jetbike and reaper launcher so he can provide long range support while providing reserve rerolls if you choose to outflank. If you really want him to be in melee then you can equip him for melee on a jetbike and use your mobility to join a unit of Striking Scorpions on the first turn.

The Windriders could also use some upgrades. Scatter Lasers would be ideal.

This gives you plenty of left over points to include Karandras.

After that you should have just over 100 points to play with. You could add more jetbikes or try to make room for a Crimson Hunter. You might also consider dropping a War Walker to add Avatar. He may be slow but his buff to the Scorpions would be fun.

Lots of great feedback there Zimko - thank you!

I suppose the drive behind the Wraithlords was that I would paint them up like Scorpions (with a little conversion) and act as if they are powered by the 'souls' of dead Scorpions? Kind of works on a fluffy level.

I was watching a couple of battle reports and they said that the Scorpions were better flying in a transport from the flank rather than infiltrating. I don't have tons of experience with them so I'm not disregarding your comments about the potency of infiltrate/stealth/shrouding.

I would like to fit Karandras in, so will definitely move some points around. I suppose my real concern with War Walkers and more jet bikes is that they're so un-Scorpiony!

RooT wrote:
I was watching a couple of battle reports and they said that the Scorpions were better flying in a transport from the flank rather than infiltrating. I don't have tons of experience with them so I'm not disregarding your comments about the potency of infiltrate/stealth/shrouding.

I would like to fit Karandras in, so will definitely move some points around. I suppose my real concern with War Walkers and more jet bikes is that they're so un-Scorpiony!

Personally I would always deploy scorpions using infiltrate rather than outflanking in a vehicle, purely for the shrouded, and the fact they can potentially charge turn two, rather than turn three at the earliest.

Are you able to play unbound? Just that from looking at your list, and me messing about with a similar idea, running scorpions in an aspect host, with wave serpents as part of the host, should cover just about every angle possible, ie scorpions for troops, serpents for vehicles, and allows you to tack Karandras on alone

Hi, this list looks good but have you considered rangers instead of jetbikes? They are a troop choice. I would also definately applaud the wraithlord idea. They have a reputation as being poor but it is thoroughly undeserved. They are as good as the wraithknight used to be.

However

There is absolutely no way you should take this list without karadras. Also I would consider trying for 6 squads of 5 scorpions simply to try to get more claws.. all of this means the following: drop the wraithlords both of them and go for one wraithknight. Drop the bikes. go 2x5 rangers Drop the autarch. Get karadras. Drop as many wave serps as you need to to get 6 5 man scorpion squads

Once again, thematically, rangers are so un-Scorpion army.

I was thinking Storm Guardians to pretend they were Scorpions in training so to speak. That'd be sweet thematically but the unit just looks a bit 'meh'.

I will take the advice to try and get Karandras in the list though, everyone seems to think it'd be stupid to not get him in!

I would try to make the points for Karandras. Deploying an IC without infiltrate into a unit of infiltrators is tricky. Double check your rules on ICs in regards to infiltrate.

Perhaps drop a Wave Serpent to help make the points. With their increased cover save, a single squad deploying in some terrain should be ok.

I disagreee about the rangers theme being un-thematic, they are infiltrators, so would (fluff wise) be logically sent in if it was an infiltration the eldar were doing. In fact I would go so far as to say that they are much the fluffiest troop choice.

They are also wearing green. So visually it helps.

If you can take 10 or 12 pieces of tree terrain this could well make for an epic encounter.

Lastly, tactically, rangers are also "ignores cover" priority targets (as will the scorpions be) so all the opponents ignores cover is now under huge target pressure and most of their other weapons are boarderline useless.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

partninja wrote:
I would try to make the points for Karandras. Deploying an IC without infiltrate into a unit of infiltrators is tricky. Double check your rules on ICs in regards to infiltrate.

Perhaps drop a Wave Serpent to help make the points. With their increased cover save, a single squad deploying in some terrain should be ok.

Karandras can infiltrate with scoprions just fine, it specifically spells it out in the codex, and he has special rule that says him and his scorps auto appear (I believe, not got codex in front of me) on turn 2 from any table edge but they cannot assault the turn they arrive


Automatically Appended Next Post:
btw I saw this esterday it is still on sale on ebay.. might be a good thing for you to grab the image and have a look at using this idea for ur scoprion wraithlords

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Warhammer-Eldar-636523-Predator-Style-Wraith-Lord-/351286764197

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTYwMFgxMjAw/z/i5wAAOSw1ZBUt-Co/$_57.JPG

Great pics ConanMan - thanks

ConanMan wrote:
I disagreee about the rangers theme being un-thematic, they are infiltrators, so would (fluff wise) be logically sent in if it was an infiltration the eldar were doing. In fact I would go so far as to say that they are much the fluffiest troop choice.

They are also wearing green. So visually it helps.

If you can take 10 or 12 pieces of tree terrain this could well make for an epic encounter.

Lastly, tactically, rangers are also "ignores cover" priority targets (as will the scorpions be) so all the opponents ignores cover is now under huge target pressure and most of their other weapons are boarderline useless.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

partninja wrote:
I would try to make the points for Karandras. Deploying an IC without infiltrate into a unit of infiltrators is tricky. Double check your rules on ICs in regards to infiltrate.

Perhaps drop a Wave Serpent to help make the points. With their increased cover save, a single squad deploying in some terrain should be ok.

Karandras can infiltrate with scoprions just fine, it specifically spells it out in the codex, and he has special rule that says him and his scorps auto appear (I believe, not got codex in front of me) on turn 2 from any table edge but they cannot assault the turn they arrive


Automatically Appended Next Post:
btw I saw this esterday it is still on sale on ebay.. might be a good thing for you to grab the image and have a look at using this idea for ur scoprion wraithlords

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Warhammer-Eldar-636523-Predator-Style-Wraith-Lord-/351286764197

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTYwMFgxMjAw/z/i5wAAOSw1ZBUt-Co/$_57.JPG

You misunderstood my post - I was suggesting Karandras because he does work - an Autarch does not.

Going to have a stab at re-writing a 1500 list when I'm home.

Will take on board points about cutting back the serpents, maybe splitting scorpion squads for more claws, getting Karandras in there instead of the Autarch and exploring options around Wraithlords/rangers/war walkers.

Stay tuned!

I love the list and theme.

Like many mentionned, Scorpions do not need transportation.

That being said, the Autarch cannot infiltrate with them so you could keep a single squad containing the Autarch in a Wave serpent with brightlances. You need mobile anti-tank.

Wraithlord are too slow for the rest of your list. Your infiltrators will suffer the brunt of combat while the Wraithlord play catch up.

You could put in some Hornets with dual pulse lasers or brightlances or maybe Fire Prism for long range anti-tank instead of the Wraithlords.

Here is what I have in mind:

Eldar CAD

HQ:
Autarch (Banshee Mask, Scorpion chainsword)

Troops:
3 x Windriders Jetbike w Scatter Laser
3 x Windriders Jetbike w Scatter Laser

Fast:
Hornet (Dual Pulse laser)
Hornet (Dual Pulse laser)
Hornet (Dual Brightlances)

Heavy:
Fire Prism
Fire Prism

Aspect Host (+1 WS / Shrinekeepers)

9 x Striking Scorpions + Exarch w Claw
9 x Striking Scorpions + Exarch w Claw
9 x Striking Scorpions + Exarch w Claw
Wave Serpent TL Brightlance/Holo-Fields

That way your Autarch and squad are protected and have a different mean of getting to combat maybe as relief for another squad.

You have some flexible long-distance shooting with the Fire Prism

Outflanking Hornets that can help out on the go.

Why can't a squad of scorpions with an autarch infiltrate?

The rules state 'units that contain at least one model with infiltrate'. What they will lose out on is the shadowstrike rule which gives the unit shrouded when it infiltrates... All the models in the unit must have this rule.

Or am I wrong on this?

Xeones7 wrote:
Why can't a squad of scorpions with an autarch infiltrate?

The rules state 'units that contain at least one model with infiltrate'. What they will lose out on is the shadowstrike rule which gives the unit shrouded when it infiltrates... All the models in the unit must have this rule.

Or am I wrong on this?

Because the Autarch cannot join a unit during the infiltration phase of deployment since it does not have infiltrate. He is not part of the "unit" codex-wise. He could join the unit in reserve and outflank with them but cannot infiltrate.

If the Autarch had infiltrate, you could deploy him in coherency with another infiltrated unit therefore "joining the unit".

It is a matter of timing in the deployment phase.

Xeones7 wrote:
Why can't a squad of scorpions with an autarch infiltrate?

The rules state 'units that contain at least one model with infiltrate'. What they will lose out on is the shadowstrike rule which gives the unit shrouded when it infiltrates... All the models in the unit must have this rule.

Or am I wrong on this?

Read the rules for Independent characters - specifically what it says about rules like infiltrate

 Erik_Morkai wrote:
I love the list and theme.

Eldar CAD

HQ:
Autarch (Banshee Mask, Scorpion chainsword)

Troops:
3 x Windriders Jetbike w Scatter Laser
3 x Windriders Jetbike w Scatter Laser

Fast:
Hornet (Dual Pulse laser)
Hornet (Dual Pulse laser)
Hornet (Dual Brightlances)

Heavy:
Fire Prism
Fire Prism

Aspect Host (+1 WS / Shrinekeepers)

9 x Striking Scorpions + Exarch w Claw
9 x Striking Scorpions + Exarch w Claw
9 x Striking Scorpions + Exarch w Claw
Wave Serpent TL Brightlance/Holo-Fields

Nice, thanks for the input!

I've seen a few people mention Hornets but they're not in the new codex...where would I find datasheets for them and are they allowed in normal battles? I presume not if they're not in the new codex...

May consider taking war walkers in place of hornets/fire prisms for mobile anti-tank hunters. Would that be a drastically poorer option?

Hornets are a forgeworld unit from one if the imperial armor books - technically they are legal for normal 40k games.

partninja wrote:
Hornets are a forgeworld unit from one if the imperial armor books - technically they are legal for normal 40k games.

Just found this via Google - http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/h/hornetexp.pdf

I think this is an AWESOME idea. I always have a unit of scorpions in my army. I have found that really the only effective person in the unit is the exarch though. He will MURDER everyone with his claw, but the unit really is just a delivery system for him. I also will comment that smaller units of scorpions will be much easier to infiltrate closer to the enemy to charges off sooner.

I would definitely suggest beefing up your long range firepower though. The rangers are good cheap objective holders that could glance a vehicle and take out some infantry, while the fire prisms can both take out armor and infantry with their large blasts and lance shots. Good stuff.

Let us know how some battle reports go!

RooT wrote:

partninja wrote:
Hornets are a forgeworld unit from one if the imperial armor books - technically they are legal for normal 40k games.

Just found this via Google - http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/h/hornetexp.pdf

Those rules are out of date, point costs have changed. They are cheaper and even better now.

You could swap out the Hornets for a squad of 3 War Walkers with similar gear and still keep the Fire Prism.

I love Fire Prism because of the versatility of their weapon along with 60" range. Who does not like to blow stuff up safely from 60" away?

definitely go all out with the theme (I'd like to restart and Eldar army around a theme)

so take karandras but use him as the Black Scorpion instead.

Wave Serpents are optional, but definitely paint them in a scorpion theme.

Your Troop choices are a tougher option. The storm guardian idea is a cool one for following the theme. You could do jetbikes and maybe go with another insect theme....wasps for example. If you do forgeworld, hornets then fit the theme.

You could also do a wratihlord and convert it to look very scorpion like, mount the shuriken catapults like mandiblasters. I also like warwalkers, they have an insectoid look about them.

Just getting a new version together for this list.

Quick question, a few have suggested 6 small units of scorpions rather than 3 big ones. Looking at CAD, you can only have 3 elite slots so how does that work?

Surely 6 smaller squads would make this unbound? Or does it just work as CAD with HQ and 2 troop choices plus two Aspect Host attachments?

Anyone have insight on the above?

You can take an unlimited number of Detachments in a Battle-Forged Army. Formations, such as the Aspect Host, can fit into their own Detachment.

So you'd take a CAD as your primary Detachment, then 2 Aspect Hosts as 2 Detachments. Thus you'd have a Battle-forged army consisting of 3 Detachments.

CAD + 2 Aspect hosts would work.

As for 6 small squads instead of 3 big ones I am on the fence.

Small squads will lose efficiency rapidly but will be all over the place.

I would try both but I expect more general efficiency from the larger squads.

 Erik_Morkai wrote:
CAD + 2 Aspect hosts would work.

As for 6 small squads instead of 3 big ones I am on the fence.

Small squads will lose efficiency rapidly but will be all over the place.

I would try both but I expect more general efficiency from the larger squads.

The reason I think the smaller squads will work is you get more claws. But it is a gamble of sorts. Either way 6 units of 5 or 3 units of 10 is optimum cos of aspect host rules. In my experience (limited) the scorpion exarch is deadly and will be ws6 (if you like ) the rest of the unit are so so.. but they do get +3 to any cover save if infiltrating so in reality you can place them in any woods and feel pretty safe.. at least in theory

Anything that ignores cover saves etc. will wreck this army presumably. I'm not a veteran player but I'm thinking Tau??

I guess that's where some long range, like the suggested Fire Prisms, might come in to take out the marker light units?

ConanMan wrote:

 Erik_Morkai wrote:
CAD + 2 Aspect hosts would work.

As for 6 small squads instead of 3 big ones I am on the fence.

Small squads will lose efficiency rapidly but will be all over the place.

I would try both but I expect more general efficiency from the larger squads.

The reason I think the smaller squads will work is you get more claws. But it is a gamble of sorts. Either way 6 units of 5 or 3 units of 10 is optimum cos of aspect host rules. In my experience (limited) the scorpion exarch is deadly and will be ws6 (if you like ) the rest of the unit are so so.. but they do get +3 to any cover save if infiltrating so in reality you can place them in any woods and feel pretty safe.. at least in theory

You get more claws but only 5 bodies. A volley of poison shots + overwatch and you could easily be down to 2 guys for a charge. Yes you have a 3+ save but it's still only 5 T3 guys. Exarch or not, you need to have enough bodies to get the job done.

 Erik_Morkai wrote:

ConanMan wrote:

 Erik_Morkai wrote:
CAD + 2 Aspect hosts would work.

As for 6 small squads instead of 3 big ones I am on the fence.

Small squads will lose efficiency rapidly but will be all over the place.

I would try both but I expect more general efficiency from the larger squads.

The reason I think the smaller squads will work is you get more claws. But it is a gamble of sorts. Either way 6 units of 5 or 3 units of 10 is optimum cos of aspect host rules. In my experience (limited) the scorpion exarch is deadly and will be ws6 (if you like ) the rest of the unit are so so.. but they do get +3 to any cover save if infiltrating so in reality you can place them in any woods and feel pretty safe.. at least in theory

You get more claws but only 5 bodies. A volley of poison shots + overwatch and you could easily be down to 2 guys for a charge. Yes you have a 3+ save but it's still only 5 T3 guys. Exarch or not, you need to have enough bodies to get the job done.

That's assuming of course you only ever charge one unit per squad of scorpions

Anything that ignores cover saves etc. will wreck this army presumably. I'm not a veteran player but I'm thinking Tau??

I guess that's where some long range, like the suggested Fire Prisms, might come in to take out the marker light units?

Most ignore cover weapons have bad ap so the scorpions will still have a 3+ArSv, tau are an exception since they can have it on any of their weapons with marker light but as you said you can shoot down the units that have those. Scatterbikes will do very good with that.
I frankly feel that most things will be a good choice for your troops as the Bikes are fast enough to support the Scorpions in front, the snipers also infiltrate, and the stormguardians are fluffy but not as good, I wouldnt feel bad using any of these.
the strongest choice would definetely be Scatterbikes though as it would help your long range firepower.

some warwalkers seem like a better choice than wraithlords.