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Trying to put together a competitive small force of WS, I know the new codex is dropping, but until it does, I'm thinking of running this:


HQ - Kor'Sarro Khan w/ Moondrakken
Command Squad w/ Bikes, Apothecary, 5x Melta Guns, Storm Shield

Troops - 5x Bikes w/ 2x Melta Gun, Combi-Melta
Attack Bike w/ Multi Melta

Troops - 5x Bikes w/ 2x Melta Gun, Combi-Melta
Attack Bike w/ Multi Melta

Troops - 5x Bikes w/ 2x Melta Gun, Combi-Melta

Fast Attack – Stormtalon Gunship w/ TL-Assault Cannon & Skyhammer Missiles

Oh look it's unoriginal white scars bike list no 70431. *yawn* wake me when a white scars had an origional idea beyond "spam all the bikes!"

But but but.....I have a Stormtalon...

Seems abit harsh...

It is the same as everyone else's but that means it will probably do well

Khan (Moondrakken) - 210

Bikes (Sergeant with Combi-Grav & Melta Bombs, 4 Bikers, 2 Grav Guns) – 150
Bikes (Sergeant with Combi-Grav & Melta Bombs, 4 Bikers, 2 Grav Guns) – 150
Bikes (Sergeant with Combi-Melta & Melta Bombs, 4 Bikers, 2 Melta Guns) – 140
Bikes (Sergeant with Combi-Melta & Melta Bombs, 4 Bikers, 2 Melta Guns) – 140

Thunderfire Cannon – 100
Thunderfire Cannon – 100

= 990

gives you two static units to sit on your deployment objectives, more objective secured bikes, and some grav mixed in for 2+ saves

peteralmo wrote:
Trying to put together a competitive small force of WS, I know the new codex is dropping, but until it does, I'm thinking of running this:


HQ - Kor'Sarro Khan w/ Moondrakken
Command Squad w/ Bikes, Apothecary, 5x Melta Guns, Storm Shield

Troops - 5x Bikes w/ 2x Melta Gun, Combi-Melta
Attack Bike w/ Multi Melta

Troops - 5x Bikes w/ 2x Melta Gun, Combi-Melta
Attack Bike w/ Multi Melta

Troops - 5x Bikes w/ 2x Melta Gun, Combi-Melta

Fast Attack – Stormtalon Gunship w/ TL-Assault Cannon & Skyhammer Missiles

Just an FYI: You can't give the Apothecary a Meltagun because he's not a Veteran.

I've seen this ruling go about 50/50 depending on TO, I believe the ITC allows it also, but it's not a huge deal to change it.

Technically though, one could say it is original because White Scars used a lot of bikes. At this point range that is your best option to go with- all bikes (also a flyer or two)

Exactly, these are white scars, I don't think it makes any sense to say "oh, you''re running all bikes, net lister!" White Scars have bikes with scout, skilled rider, and hit & run, it's basically a giant neon sign that says TAKE THESE. Now where we can critique list is on things like unit size and load out, chapter master war gear, support from either stormtalons or thunderfire cannons, or both, etc.

That doesn't mean you can't do other things, your a marine and it's not exactly origional I mean if your running basically the same list every other white scar is running what exactly is fun about it? If all that matters is winning sure fine whatever. But there's a lot more enjoyable things out there in this hobby than winning matches like making the army you want to play with the models you want to buy. And copy pasting lists is not your army it's the polar opposite it's someone else's army.

All good points Ionusx, and true points, but you're expressing them on the army list section of dakka dakka, where most, not all, but most people are discussing ideas about lists that are intended to win. And if that general truth isn't self-evident, I put a big "competitive" in my title, to tip off people in the know what basic elements there going to find in my army list when they click on it. This is a courtesy for people who prefer fluffy or fun lists, as when I post lists like that, I include the word "fluffy" or "fun" in the title. The ironic part of all of this is I can't imagine a white scars list more fun or fluffy than all bikes...

peteralmo wrote:
I've seen this ruling go about 50/50 depending on TO, I believe the ITC allows it also, but it's not a huge deal to change it.

Step One: Give a Veteran a Meltagun. Step Two: Upgrade THIS Veteran to an Apothecary. Step Three: Play an Apothecary with an Meltagun.

Why this works: The Apothecary upgrade does not change the gear of the Veteran upgraded, it only changes the Veteran to an Apothecary. I don't even think the Apothecary uses different stats than the other Veterans.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

peteralmo wrote:
I've seen this ruling go about 50/50 depending on TO, I believe the ITC allows it also, but it's not a huge deal to change it.

Step One: Give a Veteran a Meltagun. Step Two: Upgrade THIS Veteran to an Apothecary. Step Three: Play an Apothecary with an Meltagun.

Why this works: The Apothecary upgrade does not change the gear of the Veteran upgraded, it only changes the Veteran to an Apothecary. I don't even think the Apothecary uses different stats than the other Veterans.

I understand it this way as well, hence my army list, I'm just acknowledging that others find it controversial.

peteralmo wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

peteralmo wrote:
I've seen this ruling go about 50/50 depending on TO, I believe the ITC allows it also, but it's not a huge deal to change it.

Step One: Give a Veteran a Meltagun. Step Two: Upgrade THIS Veteran to an Apothecary. Step Three: Play an Apothecary with an Meltagun.

Why this works: The Apothecary upgrade does not change the gear of the Veteran upgraded, it only changes the Veteran to an Apothecary. I don't even think the Apothecary uses different stats than the other Veterans.

I understand it this way as well, hence my army list, I'm just acknowledging that others find it controversial.

It is perfectly legal, RAW. Nothing about the Apothecary says it makes any changes to the existing gear of the Veteran.

Amen.

Great. I'll go ahead and give my Chapter Master in power armor a jump pack and then give him terminator armor. Models in terminator armor can't take a jump pack, but nothing says a model in a jump pack can't take the terminator armor upgrade in the unit listing. As long as you do things in the right order you can have an Apothecary with a thunder hammer backing up a chapter master with a jump pack (or maybe a strapped on storm raven jet engine). The possibilities when "but I took this first" arguments win out lets you forge the narrative to the next level!

I think with the Apothecary it's unique though. Each army list entry includes something along the lines of, "may take terminator armor exchanging x for x etc," but with apothecaries it simply says upgrade to an Apothecary with a narthecium, it assumes the other wargear like power armor, bolt gun, grenades etc. Unless we are supposed to understand that apothecaries are naked dudes standing there with only a narthecium.

 ionusx wrote:
Oh look it's unoriginal white scars bike list no 70431. *yawn* wake me when a white scars had an origional idea beyond "spam all the bikes!"

That is the entire point of the White Scars. Why are you always hating on people who make lists that win? It's fun to play fast units. Even more fun when theyre good. At least they aren't grav guns. Spamming meltas with them really isn't that good. You make a list of things you want to play, but when people are asking for advice it's not to make the list "more fun" unless specifically stated. I think you're forgetting the section you're in and why people post here or the most likely reasons


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Marshal_Gus wrote:
Great. I'll go ahead and give my Chapter Master in power armor a jump pack and then give him terminator armor. Models in terminator armor can't take a jump pack, but nothing says a model in a jump pack can't take the terminator armor upgrade in the unit listing. As long as you do things in the right order you can have an Apothecary with a thunder hammer backing up a chapter master with a jump pack (or maybe a strapped on storm raven jet engine). The possibilities when "but I took this first" arguments win out lets you forge the narrative to the next level!

lol no you can't do that and you know it. Good luck with it though

STR 8 AP 1 Melta isn't good on fast bikes?

peteralmo wrote:
STR 8 AP 1 Melta isn't good on fast bikes?

Not as good as Grav. Melta being an assault weapon negates the need for the bikes. The bikes granting relentless makes grav-bikers much more preferable, given the added shots. You shoot the Grav-guns at low Armor Saves, the twin-linked bolters at high Armor Saves.

It's a good list.
But it's also beatable.

The Whitescar list i usally face is combined with 1 or 2 Stormtalons, 1 or 2 thunderfire cannons and an imperial knight and combines melta and grav.
Tough nut to crack...

Me too, but this is just a 1000 point list. That's one of the main reasons I went with melta over grav, to save some points. I normally run mostly grav with a smattering of melta. It could be changed to be more grav centric. I love the TFC but probably for larger games. I have the one stormtalon, and would never shy away from a second, but I don't want to be too invested in reserve rolls in a smaller points game.

peteralmo wrote:
Me too, but this is just a 1000 point list. That's one of the main reasons I went with melta over grav, to save some points. I normally run mostly grav with a smattering of melta. It could be changed to be more grav centric. I love the TFC but probably for larger games. I have the one stormtalon, and would never shy away from a second, but I don't want to be too invested in reserve rolls in a smaller points game.

You need something to deal with a list that includes the firebase formation because it will own your face here. Grav is still better at this points range. Especially against a decurion or something, but it's just better in general. More shots.... lots more shots and it kills the scary stuff the easiest (like that firebase formation)