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Hello all,

Last week I made a thread in on Tomb-Kings.net in hopes to get some suggestions on how to make a well rounded Tomb Kings list. I got that help and picked up some additional info along the way: such as that Tomb Kings to begin with isn't a great army (which I already knew), but is even worse when it's less than 2000 points. And that Tomb-Kings.net isn't a horribly active site compared to DakkaDakka.

Fantasy isn't a big thing in my hometown so I don't plan on making the transition of 2000 points or higher yet. But I would love to have a decent 1500 list. I was very adamant that I spend minimal money on creating a well rounded list but it seems that isn't exactly possible by the sounds of it.

The list I'm about to present is a list consisting of Tomb Kings that I own already (minus the Casket of Souls, still need to buy that). Any suggestions as to what to use/what to replace is much appreciated. Thanks!

Lords:
High Liche Priest
- Lore of Undeath (actually haven't read too much into the lores yet so I'm happy to pick any one of them)
- Magic Items: Dispel Scroll, Talisman of Preservation
- Wizard Level 4

Heroes:
Tomb Prince
- Great Weapon
- Magic Items: Dragonhelm (My brother, the one who I will face most often, will likely have fire stuff going on)
- Skeleton Chariot

Core:
Skeleton Archers x20
- Musician

Skeleton Archers x20
- Musician

Skeleton Chariots x5
- Champion, Musician, and Standard Bearer

Skeleton Warriors x24
- Champion, Musician, and Standard Bearer
- Light Armor
- Spears

Rare:
Casket of Souls

Necrolith Colossus
- Additional Hand Weapon

Not too sure how I feel about this list. I think it's good for what I have at my disposal, but it could likely be better if I invested some more money.

Thoughts?

Hey dude! Welcome to TK, and I respect your desire to keep things small-ish with your Fantasy for now - which seems particularly smart in the shadow of 9E. Anyway, list looks pretty groovy to me thus far, with a couple specific points:

 PaulTheFirewoodSalesman wrote:
High Liche Priest
- Lore of Undeath (actually haven't read too much into the lores yet so I'm happy to pick any one of them)

Do you not have to have a wizard with Lore of Nehekhara? I may be assuming the TK book is like the OK one ... Anyway, I think you want to have Nehek on this guy regardless, given its interaction with your army - free movement, raising, buffing, etc. Undeath mostly exists to make you buy more models, which seems to be the opposite of what you want

Skeleton Chariots x5
- Champion, Musician, and Standard Bearer

I think you might drop the champ, giving the prince a LOS! roll until you lose a chariot (because 5 RNF provide LOS! while 4 + champ do not). That +1A isn't all that hot in comparison.

Skeleton Warriors x24
- Champion, Musician, and Standard Bearer
- Light Armor
- Spears

So I really don't know what 24 skellies do. Buffed with KB thanks to your level 4 they might poke some hero in the eye? But mostly it seems like they'd crumble away. For shear competiveness, you're likely better with another block of archers, and just use them as a bunker that can do something in the game, and then die in combat. In which case I'd probably give all the archer blocks standards, for a max base CR (and it keeps a skelly alive a turn, and looks nice). If you want skeleton warriors that do something, you'll likely need a lot more (40+) and probably with shields and no spears.

Necrolith Colossus
- Additional Hand Weapon

Would a hierotitan be better? Synergizes with level 4 and also extends the magic phase with some offensive power, plus being tough and stompy in combat. But if you've already got a colossus built then rock on!

- Salvage

Thank you for the suggestions. They've been very helpful. I've gotten a few tips from the Tomb-Kings forums too so with their and your help I made some changes. I would love to get your input on them, Salvage.

First thing I did was make the Colossus into a Hierotitan instead. Took away the chariot on the Tomb Prince so now he's on foot with the warriors. The chariots lost the champion and the standard became a banner of swiftness. I split up one unit of 20 man archers into two 10 man units. I gave the remaining 20 man unit a Standard Bearer. Took away the talisman and switched to lore of Nehekhara instead for the priest. Replaced the SWs spears with regular old hand weapons.

I'm considering breaking up the chariots into either 2x3 or 3x2 units and adding Skeletal Horsemen (Horsemen were suggested on the TK forums).

This is where it gets little complicated. Since I took away the chariot from the Tomb Prince I had an extra chariot, so I added it to the existing unit. Since I did that though, I was not able to increase the number of SWs all too much. With the extra chariot I can only have a total 35 SW's. However, that is with full command for the SWs. Is it worth taking the command or would it be better to scrap that to add more skeletons? Or perhaps lose the extra chariot to add more skeletons? Or a combination of both?

Also, I have zero room for skeletal horsemen. However, I own them. I have up to 8 I can use without buying more. Would it be worth scrapping a unit or two altogether to add some horsemen?

Happy to help. Let's have another go:

 PaulTheFirewoodSalesman wrote:
First thing I did was make the Colossus into a Hierotitan instead.

Sweet.

Took away the chariot on the Tomb Prince so now he's on foot with the warriors.

Dig it. Chariot prince is flashy but now he helps the warriors have a purpose in (un)life.

The chariots lost the champion and the standard became a banner of swiftness.

We'll get to the chariots, but basically you don't need that magic banner ...

I split up one unit of 20 man archers into two 10 man units. I gave the remaining 20 man unit a Standard Bearer.

I'm in favor of keeping 2x 20 w/ standard + musician, but that's because I don't quite see the benefit of those lil' 10 skelly blocks. They're too slow to chaff well and their shooting isn't doing enough damage in 10 volleys to make splitting fire too helpful.

Took away the talisman and switched to lore of Nehekhara instead for the priest.

I would keep the ward, this lad is important! I get the concept that you'll just bunker him behind stuff, but magic (especially miscasts) and elven snipers find a way!

Replaced the SWs spears with regular old hand weapons.

There we go.

I'm considering breaking up the chariots into either 2x3 or 3x2 units

They actually can't be taken below three, but I whole heartedly agree with splitting into 2x 3 (w/ musician only - standards are tempting but there aren't points) ...

With the extra chariot I can only have a total 35 SW's.

... because I'd strangle the list to get these guys up. But a gentle strangling really, command and such is still importat.

If you're interested, here's a list I whipped up, which I think is mostly what you were talking about, plus a ward save, double archers, etc:

Liche High Priest - level 4 (NEHEK), talisman of preservation = 255
Tomb Prince - dragonhelm, great weapon = 114

34 Warriors - standard, musician, light armor = 190
3 Chariots - musician = 175
3 Chariots - musician = 175
20 Archers - standard, musician = 140
20 Archers - standard, musician = 140

Hierotitan = 175
Casket of Souls = 135
---------
1499

I actually would like that champion for the warriors, but alas there isn't 10 points I wanted to cut anywhere. If the list lacks somewhere, it's in the chaff department, but horse archers, probably your best - carrion have quite a bit going for them as well, including expensive models that you'll want to proxy with something nicer / cheaper - I just can't find the points for here. Nor you it looks like:

Also, I have zero room for skeletal horsemen. However, I own them. I have up to 8 I can use without buying more. Would it be worth scrapping a unit or two altogether to add some horsemen?

Keep in mind that the TK forums are talking about horse ]archers, the light cav that scout, and not skeleton horsemen, those awkward medium cavalry that everyone gave up on years ago, largely for good reason. Horse archers are quite good and you could consider cutting into an archer block to pick up a unit or so ... or save them for 2k

- Salvage

Thank you very much for helping me out. One thing I wanted to ask though; was the exclusion of the dispel scroll intentional?

Hey bud!

Welcome to the desert!

Tomb Kings, and not Undead Legions, are in fact a pretty difficult army to do well with. Usually it boils down into a few things.


TK Magic Engines, using the casket and heirotitan to keep forcing spells through, even from your level 2 wizards.

Gunline: 1 big block of archers w/ Khalida and a TK lore wizard for Righteous Smiting. Usually means you fire 40-80 shots that hit on 4's and are poisoned. Add catapults, a casket, and sphinx's to hold the really fighty things at bay.

Tomb Legions: Blocks of 35+ skeleton warriors, 25+ tomb guard, a prince or king to buff them, and anything else you like.

Undead Battery: Take Arkhan the Black, make the level 5 your heirophant, take heirotitans and a casket, and have a really big edge on those expensive cast undeath spells.

Anyways you slice it TK's are fun to use. If money concerns you, check out the Bones line from Reaper.

15 bucks.

http://www.reapermini.com/graphics/gallery/4/14243_f_TP_RC.jpg

3 bucks.

http://www.reapermini.com/OnlineStore/undead/sku-down/77147

3 bucks

http://www.reapermini.com/OnlineStore/undead/sku-down/77145#detail/77145_w_1

5 bucks
http://www.reapermini.com/OnlineStore/egyptian/sku-down/14243#detail/14243_f_TP_RC


In fact, almost all of the Reaper Neskofar range is usable.



Anyways, I know I'm all over the place, but here's a few tips.


ALWAYS buy champs for skeleton warriors. That's what keeps them from being a 1 turn speed bump to a lasting power. Skeleton champion eats the challenge from the big enemy, dies, then you rez him with your healing of models, saving you 4 or 5 skellies a turn.

If taking as many archers as you are, do consider running them together. 40 skeletal archers are still 40 skeletons, and can take a long time to mow through. Long enough in fact, for your chariots to hit those flank charges.

In my reading, your Heirophant still has to take the Lore of Nehekara, but imo it's a great lore for a list with lots of shooting. Light kicks in with a lot of tomb guard or snake surfers.

Tomb Catapults are a great unit, but the upgrade is probably too expensive.

Skeleton Warrior blocks are serviceable at 25 guys or higher, just keep realistic expectations if you aren't supporting them. In your case, it's likely where the prince is going, so it behooves you to cast things like the 5++ ward, Righteous Smiting, and cursed blades.

Be patient with Tomb Kings. They are a slow roll, but can still win.

PaulTheFirewoodSalesman wrote:One thing I wanted to ask though; was the exclusion of the dispel scroll intentional?

It was - I've played daemons for the last year or more and gotten over the whole 'dispel scroll is mandatory' thing. But then again I complain bitterly whenever I'm up against one and have a whole magic phase nerfed

Thunderfrog wrote:If money concerns you, check out the Bones line from Reaper ...

Good stuff from the T-Frog, +1 for all the Reaper props

- Salvage

Thanks everyone for the great help. I heard that Tomb Kings were a nightmare to play and started to regret getting them when I was first starting. But really, I don't have to win every game. I just need to have a good time!

Also, Thunderfrog, those mini's look awesome! My local game store is a GW though and they can be pretty damn picky about what models get played in their store. I might be able to get away with a unit or two though.

As soon as I saw TK I wanted to build an army! absolutely love the Egyptian influence with them. While I've yet to get any models, this thread helps with a start for me as well. Thank you all for this.