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Wondering what you guys think would fix the imperial guard? What glaring weaknesses do we have that needs fixing?

Better rough riders (I like horses) , new stats for MT, or slightly cheaper. That's all I can think of, though I'm pretty new to 40k.

Un-cut all the units from the last book that were cut.

Shift some prices around on transports and hellhound variants.

Lumbering behemoth returns in some shape for russes.

For the love all that is alcoholic, give rough riders something.

AP3 on stormies does not justify their space marine level cost.

Special weapon and heavy weapon squads need access to the same wargear infantry squads do, including transports.

I'm sure many people here will want one or both of two things. The first is one of those super formation/decurion/warhost shenanigan. The second are regimental traits or doctrines. I'm not fundamentally opposed to those things, and I wouldn't be upset if they were included, but I don't feel they're necessary to fix the book.

That said, I'm 99.76482% positive the Guard will have a wide selection of formations, ranging from the useless (Warlord gets Fear!) to the broken (All transports and weapon upgrades are free!).

Book wise, bringing back more focus on regiments other than Cadia and Catachan would do a lot for me. And avoid the absolute trash MS Paint illustrations they're using now to show off colour schemes. Embarrassing.

Oh, and trash the Taurox. Purge from records. Delete with extreme prejudice. Show no mercy. Kill all who mention its name. Strike it from living memory.

Deathstrike Missile gains Strength D, with a +1 to whatever it rolls on the table.

It's a bloody ICBM. If Wraithguard are hucking around Strength D, Deathstrike Missiles get it. End of story.


Russes gain Lumbering Behemoth again. Squadron sizes are increased to 6 Russes.
Vendettas are cut, collared, and burnt. Vulture Gunship joins the Codex as a Fast Attack Squadron choice.
Armored Sentinel Squadrons become part of Infantry Platoons.
Scout Sentinel Squadrons become Troops choices.
Bullgryn and Ogryn become an upgrade for Infantry Platoons.
Militarum Tempestus Platoons gain a "Tempestus Special Weapons Squad" option.

Rough Riders are removed if they're not getting models, again. The concept is rather dated at this point anyways.
Taurox mounted Veteran Squads become labeled as "Reaction Squads" and get put into Fast Attack.
Sergeants and Veteran Sergeants gain the option to take Lasguns and gain the ability to issue Junior Officer Orders; but ONLY to their squad.
Veteran Squads equipped with Carapace Armor are granted Hellguns(I refuse to call them "Hotshot Lasguns", as "Hotshot" is the designation for the ammo packs being utilized not the gun itself).

Hydra Flak Tanks gain the ability to sacrifice Skyfire for their turn and allowing for them to shred infantry.
Vox-Casters increase Order Radius to any units equipped with Vox-Casters and allow for an Order to be issued to multiple units at the same time.

I could probably write a whole book of these; but this is what I would like to see.

Why scrap the vendetta?!

If anything I'm ok with the points increase, but let them carry 12 models again...

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
Why scrap the vendetta?!

Because it's lazy and stupid. It doesn't need to be its own item, and what's more it's lazy and stupid.

People whine about the Taurox? The Vendetta is about a hundred times worse.

If anything I'm ok with the points increase, but let them carry 12 models again...

Hahahaha, NOPE. It had no business being able to carry anyone to begin with, much less a full capacity.

You want a "gunship"?
Then get a gunship.

Also; remove Valkyrie Squadrons as FA slots and add them as Dedicated Transports for Veteran Squads, Militarum Tempestus Squads, and Company Command Squads.

 Kanluwen wrote:



Russes gain Lumbering Behemoth again. Squadron sizes are increased to 6 Russes.

What on earth is doubling the number of leman russes in a squad going to do for them?

Squadding is already suboptimal for them.

 Kain wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:



Russes gain Lumbering Behemoth again. Squadron sizes are increased to 6 Russes.

What on earth is doubling the number of leman russes in a squad going to do for them?

Squadding is already suboptimal for them.

Without significant changes to vehicle rules in general; the best suggestion I can give in that regard is allowing for more tanks in a single slot.

Regimental (Chapter) tactics for a good number of the unique Regiments - you know the ones they highlight and go about in the actual Codex and then ignore in favour of but actually everyone is a Cadian

Lets face it AM regiments are usually more unique/diverse than mostly just wearing different coloured armour......

 Mr Morden wrote:
Regimental (Chapter) tactics for a good number of the unique Regiments - you know the ones they highlight and go about in the actual Codex and then ignore in favour of but actually everyone is a Cadian

Lets face it AM regiments are usually more unique/diverse than mostly just wearing different coloured armour......

They wont because they dont want to retool all the different cooler regiments since there are many 3rd party producer of better IG stuff.
Monkey head cadians are here to stay.


Obvious steel host type formations will be in place.

Hoping for wide pattern basilisk bombardmant that gives ignore cover.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
Why scrap the vendetta?!

Because it's lazy and stupid. It doesn't need to be its own item, and what's more it's lazy and stupid.

People whine about the Taurox? The Vendetta is about a hundred times worse.

If anything I'm ok with the points increase, but let them carry 12 models again...

Hahahaha, NOPE. It had no business being able to carry anyone to begin with, much less a full capacity.

You want a "gunship"?
Then get a gunship.

Also; remove Valkyrie Squadrons as FA slots and add them as Dedicated Transports for Veteran Squads, Militarum Tempestus Squads, and Company Command Squads.

I couldn't disagree with you more. But while we are on it, let's get rid of transport capacity in storm Ravens too

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
Why scrap the vendetta?!

Because it's lazy and stupid. It doesn't need to be its own item, and what's more it's lazy and stupid.

People whine about the Taurox? The Vendetta is about a hundred times worse.

If anything I'm ok with the points increase, but let them carry 12 models again...

Hahahaha, NOPE. It had no business being able to carry anyone to begin with, much less a full capacity.

You want a "gunship"?
Then get a gunship.

Also; remove Valkyrie Squadrons as FA slots and add them as Dedicated Transports for Veteran Squads, Militarum Tempestus Squads, and Company Command Squads.

I couldn't disagree with you more. But while we are on it, let's get rid of transport capacity in storm Ravens too

Better yet - lets get rid of Storm Ravens, Centurions, Dredd Knights, Logans Sleigh and other abombinations

They wont because they dont want to retool all the different cooler regiments since there are many 3rd party producer of better IG stuff.

Yeah I agree re the regimentsa and GW BUT having them would make the Codex better IMO

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
Why scrap the vendetta?!

Because it's lazy and stupid. It doesn't need to be its own item, and what's more it's lazy and stupid.

People whine about the Taurox? The Vendetta is about a hundred times worse.

If anything I'm ok with the points increase, but let them carry 12 models again...

Hahahaha, NOPE. It had no business being able to carry anyone to begin with, much less a full capacity.

You want a "gunship"?
Then get a gunship.

Also; remove Valkyrie Squadrons as FA slots and add them as Dedicated Transports for Veteran Squads, Militarum Tempestus Squads, and Company Command Squads.

I couldn't disagree with you more. But while we are on it, let's get rid of transport capacity in storm Ravens too

Do Stormravens have a very specific statement about

The Vendetta cuts its transport capacity to make room for additional fuel cells and servo-capacitors.

?

My problem isn't simply with the fact that it transports models. It was UNNECESSARY. It was LAZY.
It was a Robin Cruddace creation and it typified his writing style. There's a reason my Guard army that I bought at the tail-end of the Doctrines Codex is sitting unbuilt in drawers right now, and it's that man's absolutely atrocious job of doing anything interesting and unique with the Guard.

Add Vulture Gunships; remove Vendettas. I don't care if you disagree with me or not--I want them gone. The Vendetta has kept GW from doing a plastic Vulture Gunship, because the statement I got when I asked a Studio member about it when the plastic Valkyrie first came out was "We didn't want to do such a large kit as a dual-build that would have very minor alterations".

Keep a "Vendetta Package" upgrade on the Valkyrie if you want one, but make it so the "Vendetta Package" halves the transport capability of any Valkyries utilizing it.

The vendetta las cannon guns are from forge world. No one is stopping you from buying the vulture punisher cannons from forge world and making your own "plastic" vulture. I really don't see the vendetta as any more "lazy" than day taking a chimera chassis and turning it into an artillery platform.

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
The vendetta las cannon guns are from forge world. No one is stopping you from buying the vulture punisher cannons from forge world and making your own "plastic" vulture.

First of all, I have a Vulture with Punisher Cannons thankyouverymuch. If all you took away from that was "He wants a plastic Vulture", then I can't help you.

Second of all, the fact that Vendetta Lascannons are from FW should tell you everything that you need to know.
It was a design underway at FW when the plastic Valkyrie was coming out. The Vendetta was going to be EXCLUSIVE to the Elysian list.
It doesn't make any sense anywhere else, since the other Guard lists have access to Lascannons in large numbers thanks to Sentinels, LRBTs, etc.
Robin Cruddace took it and ran with it, since he can't write his way out of a wet paper bag and the initial Guard book he did had a decent number of FW items in it(Manticore, Hydra, Vendetta, some Russ variants off the top of my head) to fluff out the unit count.

I really don't see the vendetta as any more "lazy" than day taking a chimera chassis and turning it into an artillery platform.

Can a Basilisk carry infantry? Manticores toting around Bullgryn squads?

The artillery pieces you refer to share common components but are visually and technically distinctive. Vendettas are literally just a different weapon option.
Vendettas are lazy and what's more they have become a crutch that some Guard players rely heavily upon. I want that crutch kicked out from under them and the players learning to walk on their own again.
Also, I want the Valkyries and Chimeras and Taurox as Dedicated Transports(not "Fast Attack or Dedicated Transports") to prevent Allies nonsense.

AM codex update will remove all orders, replace them with formation bonuses from the IG decurion.
Tanks will be 0-6 per slot.
D weapons on some vehicles with various +1/-1's, look out for the D cannon leman russ model coming out just before christmas!
These are just the obvious things, who knows what GW will eventually do, they should put down the crack pipe before writing codexes.
Wait and see haters... wait and see

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
The vendetta las cannon guns are from forge world. No one is stopping you from buying the vulture punisher cannons from forge world and making your own "plastic" vulture.

First of all, I have a Vulture with Punisher Cannons thankyouverymuch. If all you took away from that was "He wants a plastic Vulture", then I can't help you.

Second of all, the fact that Vendetta Lascannons are from FW should tell you everything that you need to know.
It was a design underway at FW when the plastic Valkyrie was coming out. The Vendetta was going to be EXCLUSIVE to the Elysian list.
It doesn't make any sense anywhere else, since the other Guard lists have access to Lascannons in large numbers thanks to Sentinels, LRBTs, etc.
Robin Cruddace took it and ran with it, since he can't write his way out of a wet paper bag and the initial Guard book he did had a decent number of FW items in it(Manticore, Hydra, Vendetta, some Russ variants off the top of my head) to fluff out the unit count.

I really don't see the vendetta as any more "lazy" than day taking a chimera chassis and turning it into an artillery platform.

Can a Basilisk carry infantry? Manticores toting around Bullgryn squads?

The artillery pieces you refer to share common components but are visually and technically distinctive. Vendettas are literally just a different weapon option.
Vendettas are lazy and what's more they have become a crutch that some Guard players rely heavily upon. I want that crutch kicked out from under them and the players learning to walk on their own again.
Also, I want the Valkyries and Chimeras and Taurox as Dedicated Transports(not "Fast Attack or Dedicated Transports") to prevent Allies nonsense.

Sounds like you should just go find a 5th edition gaming group, and start a diary about your feelings for Robbin cruddace.

Before viewing this thread, the only change I could think of that I wanted implementing was a form of space marine chapter tactics or "regimental tactics" if you like. I do find it ridiculous that games workshop publications continually re-iterate the marksmanship of cadians, how they can strip, rebuild and fire a lasgun by the age of six, for being renowned as excellent shots yet there is literally no representation of this. A cadian firing a lasgun on the battletop is no different from a valhallan ice warrior, or a catachan jungle fighter. Im not suggesting something as drastic as BS4 for cadians, perhaps merely a reroll of ones? Why don't the steel legion have rules which recognize their mastery of military mechanization? There are many more examples which similarly irritate me. Also new rules would prompt new models; most guard models just really aren't up to the standard at the moment.

I think ogryns becoming an upgrade to infantry platoons is an idea which should be considered, even if it doesn't happen the points value of ogryns needs to decrease.

The idea of the vox network being used to issue one order to multiple units is excellent and makes perfect sense; whilst at the same time making guard more competitive.

I am not desperately hoping for a competitive formation, its not why I play guard; give me regimental diversity and representation and I will be much happier.

 Kanluwen wrote:
The artillery pieces you refer to share common components but are visually and technically distinctive. Vendettas are literally just a different weapon option.
Vendettas are lazy and what's more they have become a crutch that some Guard players rely heavily upon. I want that crutch kicked out from under them and the players learning to walk on their own again.
Also, I want the Valkyries and Chimeras and Taurox as Dedicated Transports(not "Fast Attack or Dedicated Transports") to prevent Allies nonsense.

And yet you want to deny them to Platoons.

The Vendetta as it is makes a perfect flier transport for a special weapon, heavy weapon or platoon command squad - squads that a Valkyrie would be wasted on, but that match the mission specialist role of the more heavily armed flier. It also follows along with Imperial tradition in the same manner as the Razorback and certain Land Raider variants.

It represents one of the last vestiges of the more awesome 3rd edition "Mend and make do" Imperium in a game increasingly filled with wonder-tech.

So you leave my Vendettas alone. They are perfect just the way they are.

Besides, I see no reason to set them against the Vulture, which is its own, equally awesome piece of kit.

I would like to see a bike unit, like the old motor cycle and side cars with either a heavy bolter or heavy stubber attachment. I think it would be a great unit to give the guard some speed.

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
The artillery pieces you refer to share common components but are visually and technically distinctive. Vendettas are literally just a different weapon option.
Vendettas are lazy and what's more they have become a crutch that some Guard players rely heavily upon. I want that crutch kicked out from under them and the players learning to walk on their own again.
Also, I want the Valkyries and Chimeras and Taurox as Dedicated Transports(not "Fast Attack or Dedicated Transports") to prevent Allies nonsense.

And yet you want to deny them to Platoons.

I never said I don't want Chimeras or Taurox for Platoons. I said that I want them as DEDICATED TRANSPORTS--not "Fast Attack or Dedicated Transports" like we have been seeing(where vehicles have two entries).

Valkyries? Absolutely not as Dedicated Transports for Platoons. Command Squads, Veteran Squads, and Stormtrooper Squads.
While we're at it--Command Vehicle upgrade for Valkyries.

The Vendetta as it is makes a perfect flier transport for a special weapon, heavy weapon or platoon command squad - squads that a Valkyrie would be wasted on, but that match the mission specialist role of the more heavily armed flier.

This isn't Space Marines. They don't need "mission specialist vehicles with transport capabilities".

The Vendetta is bad. It's just awful.

It also follows along with Imperial tradition in the same manner as the Razorback and certain Land Raider variants.

It represents one of the last vestiges of the more awesome 3rd edition "Mend and make do" Imperium in a game increasingly filled with wonder-tech.

Except it's not a case of Techmarines or Tech-Priests fiddling with the thing and "mending and making do".

The Vendetta was literally made up and pretended to exist this entire time, same as the Taurox and any number of things which people constantly whine about.

So you leave my Vendettas alone. They are perfect just the way they are.

Besides, I see no reason to set them against the Vulture, which is its own, equally awesome piece of kit.

Other than the fact that the continued existence of the Vendetta means no Vulture for the Codex, right?

Seriously. I've asked several times and been told that "With the adaptability of the Valkyrie and Vendetta, there is no reason for the Vulture Gunship to be placed into the main Codex."

I feel only 3 things need to be adressed.

#1 Deathstrike with a D strength Apocalyptic Mega blast.
#2 Hydra with Intercept and Skyfire.
#3 Formations.

I feel only things need to be addressed.

#1 Formations. AKA A tank formation where I can take Pask in a Punisher as a HQ and have more than 3

#2 Deathstrike with a D strength Apocalyptic Mega blast.

#3 MT get some sorta special/heavy weapon choice

#4 Flyers sort that SH*T out points drop make it all better,

#5 Orders keep them i like them maybe redo a few of them but keep FRFSRF and Ignores Cover and Tank Hunter

 Kanluwen wrote:
Deathstrike Missile gains Strength D, with a +1 to whatever it rolls on the table.

It's a bloody ICBM. If Wraithguard are hucking around Strength D, Deathstrike Missiles get it. End of story.


Russes gain Lumbering Behemoth again. Squadron sizes are increased to 6 Russes.
Vendettas are cut, collared, and burnt. Vulture Gunship joins the Codex as a Fast Attack Squadron choice.
Armored Sentinel Squadrons become part of Infantry Platoons.
Scout Sentinel Squadrons become Troops choices.
Bullgryn and Ogryn become an upgrade for Infantry Platoons.
Militarum Tempestus Platoons gain a "Tempestus Special Weapons Squad" option.

Rough Riders are removed if they're not getting models, again. The concept is rather dated at this point anyways.
Taurox mounted Veteran Squads become labeled as "Reaction Squads" and get put into Fast Attack.
Sergeants and Veteran Sergeants gain the option to take Lasguns and gain the ability to issue Junior Officer Orders; but ONLY to their squad.
Veteran Squads equipped with Carapace Armor are granted Hellguns(I refuse to call them "Hotshot Lasguns", as "Hotshot" is the designation for the ammo packs being utilized not the gun itself).

Hydra Flak Tanks gain the ability to sacrifice Skyfire for their turn and allowing for them to shred infantry.
Vox-Casters increase Order Radius to any units equipped with Vox-Casters and allow for an Order to be issued to multiple units at the same time.

I could probably write a whole book of these; but this is what I would like to see.

This - all this. And add back in the Colossus Bombard and Medusa. Oh, and on the bolded part, well, I'd prefer:

Rough Riders are changed as the concept is rather dated at this point anyways. Have them put on dirty bikes/scramblers/warbikes of some description. That way, the Death Korp Death Riders will be one of the few to use horses...

 Kanluwen wrote:
Deathstrike Missile gains Strength D, with a +1 to whatever it rolls on the table.

It's a bloody ICBM. If Wraithguard are hucking around Strength D, Deathstrike Missiles get it. End of story.

Russes gain Lumbering Behemoth again. Squadron sizes are increased to 6 Russes.
Vendettas are cut, collared, and burnt. Vulture Gunship joins the Codex as a Fast Attack Squadron choice.
Armored Sentinel Squadrons become part of Infantry Platoons.
Scout Sentinel Squadrons become Troops choices.
Bullgryn and Ogryn become an upgrade for Infantry Platoons.
Militarum Tempestus Platoons gain a "Tempestus Special Weapons Squad" option.

Rough Riders are removed if they're not getting models, again. The concept is rather dated at this point anyways.
Taurox mounted Veteran Squads become labeled as "Reaction Squads" and get put into Fast Attack.
Sergeants and Veteran Sergeants gain the option to take Lasguns and gain the ability to issue Junior Officer Orders; but ONLY to their squad.
Veteran Squads equipped with Carapace Armor are granted Hellguns(I refuse to call them "Hotshot Lasguns", as "Hotshot" is the designation for the ammo packs being utilized not the gun itself).

Hydra Flak Tanks gain the ability to sacrifice Skyfire for their turn and allowing for them to shred infantry.
Vox-Casters increase Order Radius to any units equipped with Vox-Casters and allow for an Order to be issued to multiple units at the same time.

I could probably write a whole book of these; but this is what I would like to see.

Almost agree with all of this but sorry the Vendetta Gunship is just fine, however it should be an upgrade option for a Valkyrie rather then its own separate flyer. To upgrade a Valkyrie to a Vendetta costs 25pts. and it has its transport capacity cut in half in order to get the x3 Lascannons. And a few other things:

-Hydra Flak Tanks get Interceptor on top of being able to shoot at Ground Targets with normal BS.
-Leman Russ squad size does not need to change but they should get special rules like the new Marines for taking squadrons of them, all different depending on the variant. For example, a Squad of x3 Vanquishers get a single SD Shot ONLY against enemy Vehicles.
-Bring back the cut out Artillery variants.
-Sentinel Squadrons get a size increase to either 5 or 6.

Now the big thing for me:

DOCTRINES COME BACK IN SOME SHAPE OR FORM: I cannot stress this enough it was one of the reasons that made the older Guard book so awesome. With so many kinds of different Imperial Guard out there having Doctrines (like Chapter Tactics) or even Formations representing that would be awesome and fluffy. For Example:

Airborne Imperial Guard Regiment: Imperial Guard Infantry, Sentinels and Flyers using this Docrtine/Formation all get the Deep Strike Special Rule and you may begin rolling for Reserves Turn 1. Furthermore both Armored and Scout Sentinels are the only ground vehicles available to this army.
Armored Imperial Guard Regiment: Tanks from this Doctrine/Formation come with Preferred Enemy, furthermore all vehicles with the "Tank" classification come with Objective Secured.
Mechanized Imperial Guard Regiment: Chimeras from this Doctrine/Formation have the "Fast Vehicle" Special Rule. Furthermore, up to x3 weapons (including Heavy Weapons) may fire out of the Chimera at full BS regardless on how far its moved.

Some nice ideas and discussion in this thread.
^^^All tanks get preferred enemy? Do you realise how overwhelmingly effective you just made executioners?^^^ Its a nice prospect, admittedly as a guard player.

Out of interest, does anybody have any kind of information regarding the month for the new guard codex or even time of year?

 Ustis wrote:
Some nice ideas and discussion in this thread.
^^^All tanks get preferred enemy? Do you realise how overwhelmingly effective you just made executioners?^^^ Its a nice prospect, admittedly as a guard player.

Out of interest, does anybody have any kind of information regarding the month for the new guard codex or even time of year?

Its just as crazy as some of the stuff Necrons, Eldar, Skitarri, Mechanicum and Marines got! And honestly the last thing I heard after Marines for 40k was Tau rumors.

Oh let me make myself understood I am not dismissing the idea as unrealistic or in the game breaking territory occupied by Decurion detachments. I think I would actually be more inclined to go for the mechanized doctrine so I can ride around in a fast chimera firing three veteran melta guns.

As for the codex, we could be waiting some time then

HWT get +1 Toughness, and Stealth, and perhaps can be taken as 3-5?

Bring back our special characters please!

Three guardsman can shoot out of the top hatch of a chimera

Lumbering behemoth for the LR tanks

Replace the turok with an assault vehicle?

Veteran Sgt. Orders!

Chimera with an Order Relay system?

Motorcycle Guardsman to replace Rough Riders, because I already modeled mine that way.

Hell, buff up the entire elite section.

Give Sentinels a jinx or more weapons/weapon choices. Cuz I've got 7 of them, and need more mileage.

Bayonet upgrade to add +1 attack for 1/2points per model

10" Strength D Death Strike Missile

Figure out something for the Psyker battle squad, or get rid of them. They're boring, and I'd rather just take the Primaris.

Bring back Marbo, give him an awesome backstory as to where the hell he went, and make his statline even better. Or just give him his long over due solo codex.

Medkits for Veteran squads

About half way through I think I just started Wish-listing.

 Guardsmen Bob wrote:
Bring back Marbo, give him an awesome backstory as to where the hell he went, and make his statline even better. Or just give him his long over due solo codex.

Unfortunately, I don't expect Marbo to ever make a return. He is a heavy pop culture reference in an age where GW is trying to make everything © and™ friendly. Best just to mourn his passing and move on. I suppose it is possible we could see a unit with a similar theme, but it would not be Marbo.

I preferred Chenkov anyway. Respawning conscripts would be an awesome addition to my lists.