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Nurgle Daemons (1843pts)
Chaos Daemons: Codex (2013) (Combined Arms Detachment) (1843pts)
HQ (640pts)
Be'lakor, The Dark Master (350pts)

Great Unclean One (290pts)
2x D6 Daemonic Reward, D6 Daemonic Reward, Psyker Level 3

Troops (243pts)
Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (154pts)
16x Pink Horrors

Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (154pts)
16x Pink Horrors

Heavy Support (960pts)
Daemon Prince (Heavy) (320pts)
2x Daemonic Reward, Daemonic Reward, Daemonic Flight, Mastery 2, Warp-forged Armour
Daemon of Nurgle

Daemon Prince (Heavy) (320pts)
2x Daemonic Reward, Daemonic Reward, Daemonic Flight, Mastery 2, Warp-forged Armour
Daemon of Nurgle

Daemon Prince (Heavy) (320pts)
2x Daemonic Reward, Daemonic Reward, Daemonic Flight, Mastery 2, Warp-forged Armour
Daemon of Nurgle

Created with BattleScribe

So the plan is to cover objectives with Horrors in the back field and spawn for the mid field while my 4 shroaded Daemon Princes beat face. TGUO deep strikes on the center for missions 1 and 3.

Thoughts

Looking for advice

1 less prince, but more answers i think, and more warp charges and a spell familiar...

Nurgle Daemons / Chaos Space Marines (1846pts)
Chaos Daemons: Codex (2013) (Combined Arms Detachment) (1316pts)
HQ (640pts)
Be'lakor, The Dark Master (350pts)
Great Unclean One (290pts)
2x D6 Daemonic Reward, D6 Daemonic Reward, Psyker Level 3

Troops (331pts)
Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (90pts)
10x Pink Horrors

Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (90pts)
10 Pink Horrors

Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (151pts)
13x Pink Horrors, 1 Irridescent Horror w/ greater reward

Heavy Support (345pts)
Daemon Prince (Heavy) (345pts)
2x Daemonic Reward, Daemonic Reward, Daemonic Flight, Mastery 3, Warp-forged Armour
Daemon of Nurgle

Chaos Space Marines (530 pts)
Daemon Prince - ml3, nurgle, spell familiar, black mace (355pts)

10 Cultists (50pts)

Maulerfiend (125pts)

Looks good barring the lone mauler... Does the CSM prince have armour? Why not spread the horrors into 3 x 11 to boost your initial warp charge?

 Inigo Montoya wrote:
1 less prince, but more answers i think, and more warp charges and a spell familiar...

Nurgle Daemons / Chaos Space Marines (1846pts)
Chaos Daemons: Codex (2013) (Combined Arms Detachment) (1316pts)
HQ (640pts)
Be'lakor, The Dark Master (350pts)
Great Unclean One (290pts)
2x D6 Daemonic Reward, D6 Daemonic Reward, Psyker Level 3

Troops (331pts)
Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (90pts)
10x Pink Horrors

Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (90pts)
10 Pink Horrors

Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (151pts)
13x Pink Horrors, 1 Irridescent Horror w/ greater reward

Heavy Support (345pts)
Daemon Prince (Heavy) (345pts)
2x Daemonic Reward, Daemonic Reward, Daemonic Flight, Mastery 3, Warp-forged Armour
Daemon of Nurgle

Chaos Space Marines (530 pts)
Daemon Prince - ml3, nurgle, spell familiar, black mace (355pts)

10 Cultists (50pts)

Maulerfiend (125pts)

You could drop the GUO and put the Chaos Daemons Nurgle Prince in the HQ slot. Converting one squad of horrors to a unit of cultists to fulfill CAD tax should then free you up points and room to take 2 Heldrakes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
actually all you would have to do is drop the GUO and add a unit of cultists

I don't have any CSM models so those might be good ideas, but I can't do them.

After some thought. I stripped the Lesser Rewards and made the Horrors 2*16 each.

Breaking that down to 3*11 would be the same amount of warp charges and would feed my opponents Kill Points.

Any non CSM Thoughts?

The benefit of having three Horrors instead of two is that it will take three units shooting at you to lose three WC. If you have 2x16 Horrors it will potentially take two units shooting to lose four WC.

This is, ofc, assuming that one unit's shooting can kill 6 Horrors--and at T3 with a 5++, that's not going to be difficult.

 Elric Greywolf wrote:
The benefit of having three Horrors instead of two is that it will take three units shooting at you to lose three WC. If you have 2x16 Horrors it will potentially take two units shooting to lose four WC.

This is, ofc, assuming that one unit's shooting can kill 6 Horrors--and at T3 with a 5++, that's not going to be difficult.

Plus it's another shot at incursion or cursed earth.

That is true it is another roll on the Chart.

I was told to roll these Psyker Charts:

GUO Daemonology
Be'lakor all Telepathy (mandatory)
3*DP Biomancy
Pink Horrors Daemonology

Thoughts?

Yup seems legit. I'll sometimes roll biomancy for the GUO too (either in combination with malefic, or in place of).

That's a good place to start, just remember to be flexible to accommodate for match up and mission. Depending on what powers/rewards you roll up it might be wise to throw a dice at malefic on one or two of your princes to have some mobile summoners popping up daemons exactly where you need them.

Thanks @Vomicron Noxis and @astro_nomicon.

Are horrors really what you want for troops? I would think nurgleings a better choice when it comes to objective holding.

Horrors are better all rounders. In this case, as warp dice batteries and possible summoning hijinks. Go for the 3x11 on horrors and hide 'em deep.

I'm not a Daemon player, so take that for what it is, but if your princes are shrouded, do you really need to spend the points on the 3+ save?

 The Shrike wrote:
I'm not a Daemon player, so take that for what it is, but if your princes are shrouded, do you really need to spend the points on the 3+ save?

You don't get a cover save in close combat

Certain tau builds make it virtually mandatory as well. Although, with the proliferation of grav weapons it might be tempting not to take it.

 CrownAxe wrote:

 The Shrike wrote:
I'm not a Daemon player, so take that for what it is, but if your princes are shrouded, do you really need to spend the points on the 3+ save?

You don't get a cover save in close combat

Do people still use DPs for close combat?

Its quite a task gettibg them there sometimes but Nurgle Princes still do quite a number against a lot of units

 The Shrike wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

 The Shrike wrote:
I'm not a Daemon player, so take that for what it is, but if your princes are shrouded, do you really need to spend the points on the 3+ save?

You don't get a cover save in close combat

Do people still use DPs for close combat?

If you are jinking for a 2+ cover save with Shrouded, All you can do is assault.

You're swooping, which means the earliest you can assault is T3; if you survive your turn on the ground. Which, with the prevalence of Grav and Scatbikes in the meta, is extremely doubtful.

You can of course use them as flying summoners. However, flying circuses are not nearly as scary as seeing a double or triple star across the table with some combo of Screamerstar/Dronestar and invisible Khornedog blob.

You can jink while gliding you know

A 4+ save on a T5 platform from jink is unimpressive and likely ineffectual in the face of scat bikes or even the massed bolter fire of Gladius, likely buffed by the tactical doctrine.

An even bigger problem for Daemon Princes in the meta than resilience is their inability to deal with MSU. Unlike mass screamers, or dogs or drones (or ideally, all three), you cannot (effectively, or often) multi-assault.

Are Daemon Princes terrible? No. They can still summon. But it's an awful lot of points to spend to accomplish that. I think Daemon builds around large footprint, invisible/cursed earth stars supported by Fatey will remain the most competitive.

Dude I'm explaining to you why you take 3+ armor on a DPoN that has Shrouded. Idk why you think Im talking about a 4+ for jink. It would be a 2+ cover save for jinking.

Plus it has a myriad of other defensive buffs it can get such as Iron Arm, +1W & IWND, a rerollable Invul, and then 4+ FNP (which it has like a 66% of having thanks to rolling for Endurance and Greater Rewards).

That's why DPoN are used for primarily assault only. Because that is all it can do, It gets no shooting except for terrible witchfires and is too expensive to use exclusively for summoning. That only leaves it with close combat. So that's why you glide (not swoop, because it is literally doing nothing if it is just swooping) across the table jinking for a 2+ cover along with whatever other defensive bonuses the DPoN rolled so that it can survive long enough to get to combat and punch things with the Balesword (which gives poison and ID).

Also MSU isn't a problem because Flying Circus never won by killing units, it won with table control which is is even better at in 7ed because of Summoning.

@CrownAxe, You said that better and more calmly than I could have. Thank you.

@Other Ideas, Stars and Corn Dogs are probably better, but I don't own any of those models.

I did think about Plague Bearers, but with my Horrors, I can summon them.

I am relying on my team to keep me away from Tau. They will ignore my cover and blow me to pieces.

My general plan is to cover the hold objectives with DP until I can get summoned units on them, but most likely my opponent is going to want to try to push me off.

Mission 1: Pinks hold back field, DP advance to the objective that is closest to the opponent then to the opponents ojbective, GUO goes to the farther objective or to one that is in cover. Without cover the GUO is in danger.

Mission 2: I tag soft front line units and swarm them with DP to kill them. I will probably lose KP. Then my GCU will hide in the back field behind line of sight blocking terrain. If my DP finish their targets in time they will head to the Warlord, unless his WL is in a marked unit.

Mission 3: Objectives are the same as 1. Relic will be covered by a DP until my GUO can get there, or a infantry unit is summoned to pick it up. The rules say you have to touch it which means my large bases can keep you clear until my units get there to pick it up. Once again I will probably lose kill points.

I'm not looking to max my score. However, I do expect to pickup 10-20 points almost every game.

Play the mission I can win.

That is the plan until my opponent force me to change it.

I'm sorry if I offended anyone or riled any feathers. Not trying to work people up, just having a conversation!

Anyway OP, I think ATC format works to your advantage. I'd play you as an attacker. I think many teams will push out Necron Decurions and Gladius as a Defender; both of which you can push off objectives with ease. Of course, getting bottom turn against a Gladius could be nasty. How's the LoS blocking cover situation? A lot of your stuff is easily hidden from alpha strikes if cover is decent.

I'd keep you far away from Eldar and Tau.

The Shrike wrote:A 4+ save on a T5 platform from jink is unimpressive and likely ineffectual in the face of scat bikes or even the massed bolter fire of Gladius, likely buffed by the tactical doctrine.

An even bigger problem for Daemon Princes in the meta than resilience is their inability to deal with MSU. Unlike mass screamers, or dogs or drones (or ideally, all three), you cannot (effectively, or often) multi-assault.

Are Daemon Princes terrible? No. They can still summon. But it's an awful lot of points to spend to accomplish that. I think Daemon builds around large footprint, invisible/cursed earth stars supported by Fatey will remain the most competitive.

Do you have any example lists that contain all three of those units? It wouldn't be hard to throw a bunch of Hounds on the table to accompany a ScreamerStar and a DroneStar, but it would be hard to make them workable. Putting a Herald in the unit of Hounds (which they need to hit hard enough) would also require a second CAD or permission to self ally, as the Screamers and Drones really need 2 Heralds a piece to work. Lack of guaranteed Invis (there's no way you're getting Fatey, Be'lakor, and Hounds, Drones, and Screamers in a list at 1850) also presents a problem in that the Hounds are the obvious weak link. What would you target? A 2++ rerollable ScreamerStar, a DroneStar with 2+ cover and 4/5+ FNP or an unbuffed unit of Hounds (well possible 4++ if Fatey or Tz'erald roll up forewarning/cursed earth)?

Sick Bag wrote:@CrownAxe, You said that better and more calmly than I could have. Thank you.

@Other Ideas, Stars and Corn Dogs are probably better, but I don't own any of those models.

I did think about Plague Bearers, but with my Horrors, I can summon them.

I am relying on my team to keep me away from Tau. They will ignore my cover and blow me to pieces.

My general plan is to cover the hold objectives with DP until I can get summoned units on them, but most likely my opponent is going to want to try to push me off.

Mission 1: Pinks hold back field, DP advance to the objective that is closest to the opponent then to the opponents ojbective, GUO goes to the farther objective or to one that is in cover. Without cover the GUO is in danger.

Mission 2: I tag soft front line units and swarm them with DP to kill them. I will probably lose KP. Then my GCU will hide in the back field behind line of sight blocking terrain. If my DP finish their targets in time they will head to the Warlord, unless his WL is in a marked unit.

Mission 3: Objectives are the same as 1. Relic will be covered by a DP until my GUO can get there, or a infantry unit is summoned to pick it up. The rules say you have to touch it which means my large bases can keep you clear until my units get there to pick it up. Once again I will probably lose kill points.

I'm not looking to max my score. However, I do expect to pickup 10-20 points almost every game.

Play the mission I can win.

That is the plan until my opponent force me to change it.

Good luck! Nurgle Princes are hella fun to play even if they aren't the most competitive thing daemons have to offer.

As you say, as long as your team can keep you away from seriously bad matchups (tau, possibly Flyrant spam nids, and maybe super scatbike heavy eldar) you can probably do pretty well with this list. This kind of Flying Circus actually got better after the new Eldar codex dropped , what with the loss of mass TL cover ignoring fire coming from Wave Serpents. It probably stands up pretty well to a lot of Decurion Builds relying on tough as nails bricks of warriors to clog up objectives as you stand a good chance of forcing enough wounds to sweep them (correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you'd pretty much auto sweep them as long as they fail morale seeing that the DP is I 8). You'd be rerolling 2's or 3's to wound against pretty much any Necron models (anything T5 or less), and ID from the Balesword is likely bumping RP down to a 5+++. Get Warp Speed on one of those bad boys and you'll be wrecking face.

I agree he's wrecking Necron Decurions, but ID does not lower RP. The only thing that lowers RP is the dirty D.

As to the list, you hit it right on the head. You play a true double star with screamers and drones, and then the dogs can be the sacrificial lamb. They'll probably have at least shrouding, depending on how many psychic dice you're throwing around. And keep in mind, if you get bottom turn and the screamers or drones get blasted off the table, now you just buff the hounds instead.

Instead Death does reduce RP

D weapons just remove RP outright.

@The Shrike: so I put together a triple threat daemons list and it actually looks better than I thought. check it out: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/654392.page#7942165