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As a Chaos Player who began the hobby less than a year ago, I have grown to love my CSM force. I learned how to play at my FLGS and have continued to attend tournaments there and enjoy every minute of it. I learned on these forums about dataslates, researched them, and got the Helbrute Dataslate. This is awesome <snip>. I go in one day to buy paint or some such thing and talk to the store owner and he informs me that They do not allow any electronic gaming aids whatsoever. They also do not allow print outs of said items. In other words, Belakor, Cypher, and all other data slate formations can not be run at the FLGS. While these items are not the reason I am not sweeping the tournaments, and they are not total game changers, I was wondering if anyone else had similar experiences. I still love going there, I am sure they have their reason, of which I have no idea. I was wondering if this is a thing only here, or is this the norm.

They allow FW into the unbound tournaments, which is cool, but then why can't I use my helbrute dataslate and bring in 3 brutes via deepstrike and let them finally be able to tear some shizzle up?

Thoughts?

Edit by Janthkin; some similes just don't need to be included.

Well, that's their prerogative. It's also yours for whether that will impact how you purchase and attend there. Either the FLGS is losing some potential revenue by not allowing these (If you were allowed it, would you buy more Helbrutes? Maybe!) or they know their customer base well enough that they are confident allowing such things may actually lead to a decrease in sales as players get upset and leave the hobby, or get used to making more online purchases rather than in-store purchases.

Personally, I think the FLGS is shooting themselves in the foot. I don't understand why you wouldn't allow electronic aids and other such supplements/dataslates.

...what?

There's so much that's weird about this situation I can't help but feel you've misinterpreted something. It's either that or whoever makes the rules for this store maybe has problems with reasoning.

Why ban dataslates but allow FW? What's the reasoning for the distinction there? FW has a great many things that are "dataslates" in all but name, after all.

Some armies have dataslates - some do not. Are they aware that a blanket ban on those hurts some players more than others?

What is an "electronic gaming aid"? A calculator? A rulebook on a tablet? And then why ban their usage? Do they think having the ability to use technology for convenience gives you an unfair advantage somehow?

To your question, I've heard of many people calling for bans on many things, but dataslates specifically is one I have not heard before.

Run this example
1.have an imperial assassin as a main staple of your list
2.say that his rules are either a dataslate, in a white dwarf (of which you do not have) or a pdf of that white dwarf
3.say you have the dataslate/pdf
4.watch their faces as you say that to play a game you HAVE to take the assassin
5.field the assassin
6.???
7.profit

They probably had some problems in the past. Each meta is different. Look on the bright side - you needn't worry about Skyhammer!

In my Meta, I played an allied game (my Harlies + someone's CWE vs Bugs/Bugs). I deploy and move based on knowing that my ally's Scytheguard will *destroy* the venomthropes with ease. They pop out and shoot. And then I find out they're using 6E Scythes. I'm glad they were, as its more fair! But my point is metas sometimes do some odd things, and it might disadvantage you, but it may be a good thing on the whole.

To Answer the questions, no I am not mis-interpreting. I am not either trying to call out the Owner as he is an awesome guy, and his wife and kid works there as well, and are always friendly. I was just wondering if this was normal as I am fairly new to this game. As far as electronic gaming aids, the rule is nothing that allows PDFs or electronic Codexs. I understand not allowing electronic versions of stuff that you can buy from them instead, that makes sense to me. Pay where you Play IMO. But the other rule is the one that I was wondering about.

Are the owners amish?

I can understand the aversion to some of the dataslates and digital content, but at this point it's basically a losing battle to ban it.

If you want to be really passive aggressive about it, bring an army of Sisters with an Inquisitorial detachment as allies and an assassin. Very fluffy, not overpowered, 100% digital content.

 Lammikkovalas wrote:
Are the owners amish?

LOL.

 redleger wrote:
To Answer the questions, no I am not mis-interpreting. I am not either trying to call out the Owner as he is an awesome guy, and his wife and kid works there as well, and are always friendly. I was just wondering if this was normal as I am fairly new to this game. As far as electronic gaming aids, the rule is nothing that allows PDFs or electronic Codexs. I understand not allowing electronic versions of stuff that you can buy from them instead, that makes sense to me. Pay where you Play IMO. But the other rule is the one that I was wondering about.

Doesn't sound very friendly at all. These rules continue to make no sense. I've never, ever heard of a FLGS that says you can only play with physical books you bought at the store itself. That's downright ridiculous. Do they make you only play with models you bought from them as well? What the actual feth.

Between banning some parts of the game and not others for no definitive reason, and this startling revelation, it sounds like a really dumb place to go and play to me. My FLGS lets the players decide how they want to play their game, and DEFINITELY doesn't force you to use material you bought from them when you play there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lammikkovalas wrote:
Are the owners amish?

WELL SAID! Exalted

Not saying it has to be books you bought from them, obviously if you move to town, that would be kinda silly. But it would make sense to me to provide incentive to buy from them. Dataslates are not possible to buy from them though, hence the issue.

Some people are traditionalists and do not want to propagate electronic devices

Hell i hate it when people stare at the phones 24/7

IIRC a lot of places did the same thing when fire in the sky or whatever the air battle sup came out because it was direct order only.

It might be a business thing("We can't sell Digital Products, so don't use them here") or it might be a worry about liability(ex: someone loses their device there).

 redleger wrote:
Not saying it has to be books you bought from them, obviously if you move to town, that would be kinda silly. But it would make sense to me to provide incentive to buy from them. Dataslates are not possible to buy from them though, hence the issue.

You say it is an issue, but the issue is fully on the owner's end. You may call him a nice guy, but this rule is absolutely ridiculous and makes not a single lick of sense.

Aren't all of the new codex unit entries now dataslates?

SJ

 redleger wrote:
Not saying it has to be books you bought from them, obviously if you move to town, that would be kinda silly. But it would make sense to me to provide incentive to buy from them. Dataslates are not possible to buy from them though, hence the issue.

How does this create an incentive to buy from them?

Say I already own a digital codex - am I going to buy it again, and a more expensive version of it at that, just so I can play it at this one store that isn't cool with it otherwise? Obviously not.

Say I didn't own a digital or physical codex. If I prefer physical copies, I was going to buy one anyway. Their ridiculous rule doesn't play in to my purchase at all.

The ONLY thing it's doing is punishing a subset of players for their preference - or their inability to afford physical books. How is that fair?

To say nothing of those players who only have a digital codex. I play Sisters and I would be downright forbidden to play at the OP's store because of the stupidity of the owner.

 Desubot wrote:
Some people are traditionalists and do not want to propagate electronic devices

Hell i hate it when people stare at the phones 24/7

IIRC a lot of places did the same thing when fire in the sky or whatever the air battle sup came out because it was direct order only.

So it's a bizarre, backwards "social justice" thing? Like my using an iPad instead of a book is affecting you in ANY way. Would you have turned me down for a game in prehistory because I was using that newfangled "paper" instead of a good, solid hunk of chiseled rock? All these kids with their noses in books, not like the old days when we had the priest read to us.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 curran12 wrote:
To say nothing of those players who only have a digital codex. I play Sisters and I would be downright forbidden to play at the OP's store because of the stupidity of the owner.

This x1000. Hilariously, indisputably unfair.

 Jambles wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Some people are traditionalists and do not want to propagate electronic devices

Hell i hate it when people stare at the phones 24/7

IIRC a lot of places did the same thing when fire in the sky or whatever the air battle sup came out because it was direct order only.

So it's a bizarre, backwards "social justice" thing? Like my using an iPad instead of a book is affecting you in ANY way. Would you have turned me down for a game in prehistory because I was using that newfangled "paper" instead of a good, solid hunk of chiseled rock? All these kids with their noses in books, not like the old days when we had the priest read to us.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 curran12 wrote:
To say nothing of those players who only have a digital codex. I play Sisters and I would be downright forbidden to play at the OP's store because of the stupidity of the owner.

This x1000. Hilariously, indisputably unfair.

When did i say i wouldn't play people with digital stuff.

Hell i have a bunch of digital dexs my self...

I still hate people that over use there electronic device.

 Desubot wrote:

 Jambles wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Some people are traditionalists and do not want to propagate electronic devices

Hell i hate it when people stare at the phones 24/7

IIRC a lot of places did the same thing when fire in the sky or whatever the air battle sup came out because it was direct order only.

So it's a bizarre, backwards "social justice" thing? Like my using an iPad instead of a book is affecting you in ANY way. Would you have turned me down for a game in prehistory because I was using that newfangled "paper" instead of a good, solid hunk of chiseled rock? All these kids with their noses in books, not like the old days when we had the priest read to us.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 curran12 wrote:
To say nothing of those players who only have a digital codex. I play Sisters and I would be downright forbidden to play at the OP's store because of the stupidity of the owner.

This x1000. Hilariously, indisputably unfair.

When did i say i wouldn't play people with digital stuff.

Hell i have a bunch of digital dexs my self...

I still hate people that over use there electronic device.

Fair enough. I incorrectly inferred that you supported the position by stating it. My bad.

It does grind my gears when people posit "tradition" as a justification for being needlessly antagonistic about somebody's choices or lifestyle.

FWIW, I'm with you on the overuse of devices. Like those people that record the concert they're at on their phone, drives me insane. WHY ARE YOU HERE?

 redleger wrote:
As a Chaos Player who began the hobby less than a year ago, I have grown to love my CSM force. I learned how to play at my FLGS and have continued to attend tournaments there and enjoy every minute of it. I learned on these forums about dataslates, researched them, and got the Helbrute Dataslate. This is awesome. I go in one day to buy paint or some such thing and talk to the store owner and he informs me that They do not allow any electronic gaming aids whatsoever. They also do not allow print outs of said items. In other words, Belakor, Cypher, and all other data slate formations can not be run at the FLGS. While these items are not the reason I am not sweeping the tournaments, and they are not total game changers, I was wondering if anyone else had similar experiences. I still love going there, I am sure they have their reason, of which I have no idea. I was wondering if this is a thing only here, or is this the norm.

They allow FW into the unbound tournaments, which is cool, but then why can't I use my helbrute dataslate and bring in 3 brutes via deepstrike and let them finally be able to tear some shizzle up?

Thoughts?

Are you sure the owner understands the concept of dataslates and doesn't just get them confused with pirated codexes? What did he answer when you asked him "why" he is banning electronic aids and print-outs?

Considering there are quite a few games that solely distribute their army lists and rules digitally, this really seems like a very silly house-rule. I gather he also doesn't allow FAQs and errate that are provided digitally?

BRB wrote:

 redleger wrote:
As a Chaos Player who began the hobby less than a year ago, I have grown to love my CSM force. I learned how to play at my FLGS and have continued to attend tournaments there and enjoy every minute of it. I learned on these forums about dataslates, researched them, and got the Helbrute Dataslate. This is awesome. I go in one day to buy paint or some such thing and talk to the store owner and he informs me that They do not allow any electronic gaming aids whatsoever. They also do not allow print outs of said items. In other words, Belakor, Cypher, and all other data slate formations can not be run at the FLGS. While these items are not the reason I am not sweeping the tournaments, and they are not total game changers, I was wondering if anyone else had similar experiences. I still love going there, I am sure they have their reason, of which I have no idea. I was wondering if this is a thing only here, or is this the norm.

They allow FW into the unbound tournaments, which is cool, but then why can't I use my helbrute dataslate and bring in 3 brutes via deepstrike and let them finally be able to tear some shizzle up?

Thoughts?

Are you sure the owner understands the concept of dataslates and doesn't just get them confused with pirated codexes? What did he answer when you asked him "why" he is banning electronic aids and print-outs?

Considering there are quite a few games that solely distribute their army lists and rules digitally, this really seems like a very silly house-rule. I gather he also doesn't allow FAQs and errate that are provided digitally?

Good Question, Hasn't come up. I just use the Erata rules for instance Helbrute is now 100 pts vs the 105 in the book. I agree it sucks though. Im not sticking up for his decision. It is the only shop in town though. I didn't know sisters was digital only, might explain why I never see sisters played at the store. I would buy his Helbrute that has been on the shelf since I discovered the place if the dataslate were authorized and run the 3 HB formation in most games, or even the Helcult as its pretty decent for lower point games. Ill keep asking him, but I am not sure about him changing his mind.

And it's the only store in town, of course... sounds like he knows he can get away with this gak...

You should tell him as much. If there's anything that should sway his opinion, it's a sale.

 Yarium wrote:


Personally, I think the FLGS is shooting themselves in the foot. I don't understand why you wouldn't allow electronic aids and other such supplements/dataslates.

This, especially with regards to Erratas / FAQs. Those can be pretty critical in some situations.

This is hilariously misguided and bullheadedly stupid. If my FLGS started doing this I would loudly voice my opinion on the idiocy of the policy and immediately announce that I would be seeking a new store to support with my business, and try to sway as many other players to follow me as possible.

Yeah the FLGS is right, it will hurt his sales too much if you buy a digital item that costs...5$...

Wow...thats a cheap basterd...

Ultimately you have to decide what you are willing to tolerate as a consumer.

If you really like using certain things and your store/group doesn't want you to, then find another place to play. You may actually find a better group in the process.

A number of stores in my region have overly restrictive/wonky tournament house rules (imho). I asked if I could field certain things and they said no. No worries, I took my models and my purchasing dollars elsewhere.

OK, so my question is answered. This is not normal practice.

 redleger wrote:
OK, so my question is answered. This is not normal practice.

No, not at all.

By the way, ITC tournament format (which is relatively restrictive) - "All current source material is allowed, including GW Codexes, Data Slates, Formations, and current Forge World units and army lists which are listed below. Please note, Experimental and Horus Heresy/30K Forge World units are not allowed. "

Just another sad day for the Sisters of Battle.