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Looking at mk2 Butcher and the Berserkers...

His Full Throttle spell, coupled with the Berserkers rules, this allows you to basically run those jacks for zero focus. It costs 3 to pop, but now you don't need focus the zerker to get him to charge. You also don't need to worry about boosting anything on him because FT also boosts attack rolls. The zerker hardly needs a damage booster and even if you did, Butchers feat takes care of that need.

Also it seems like a pretty nifty trick to dump focus on the Zerker and try to get Unstable to go off while stuck in a blob of infantry.

Here is a 15 pointer that I think could be a good mix.

Butcher

W/ Destroyer, 3 points, 6 on allowance.

2x Berserkers, 6 points each, 12 total

15 points.

Every turn you are dropping FT, putting your remaining 3 focus on Butcher and maybe 1 or 2 on the Des. Now you can run, charge, and make a couple power attacks for free with all your jacks. When you get your blob into range, pop FT, pop Feat, keep the remaining focus on Butcher and charge him in. Charge your 3 jacks in for free too and proceed to wreck face.

Really Butcher is a melee beatstick, but he can also run jacks like a hot damn. Especially Berserkers!

p Butcher is one of the few casters who can actually use beserkers effectively. They can't hit the broad side of a colossal, and full throttle boosts their to hit roll.

The best part is that beserkers don't need any focus to get into position. Khador has slow Jacks, and letting them run for free means that butcher can keep his focus on him until it is time to let rip.

Berserkers run and charge for free anyway, so full throttle is wasted in that regard. The boosted attack rolls are very important because Berserkers will have trouble hitting otherwise, but P+S 16 simply does not cut it when it comes to combating enemy heavies (I know this from experience). Butcher is better served by running Juggernauts (Butcher with 3 Juggernauts). They have better MAT (even with boosted rolls this is helpful) 2 points better ARM (which is huge), a few more boxes (also helpful), they gain more from full throttle, and in exchange give you bigger returns (P+S 19 hurts a lot more than a P+S 16). Also dont discount the possibility of crit stationary (which is made more likely by the boosted rolls from full throttle). Plus, they wont explode if you feed them focus to buy some extra attacks.

If you want a good Berserker caster, look to Karchev. Unearthly Rage is a much more useful spell for them than Full Throttle is.

Yeah, the zerkers do get "free focus" to run and charge, but the most important part is getting those relics to actually hit! FT may be somewhat wasted on them because of this but you are also getting a free slam/trample.

Also, the Unstable explosion seems like a great weapon, if used correctly. It could also kick you in your own tail, but that seems fun too.

He doesn't do anything for their speed though...

A better option is Vlad1 theme. 5pt zerks, 11" charge and signs and portents.

 darkcloak wrote:
Looking at mk2 Butcher and the Berserkers...

His Full Throttle spell, coupled with the Berserkers rules, this allows you to basically run those jacks for zero focus. It costs 3 to pop, but now you don't need focus the zerker to get him to charge. You also don't need to worry about boosting anything on him because FT also boosts attack rolls. The zerker hardly needs a damage booster and even if you did, Butchers feat takes care of that need.

Also it seems like a pretty nifty trick to dump focus on the Zerker and try to get Unstable to go off while stuck in a blob of infantry.

Here is a 15 pointer that I think could be a good mix.

Butcher

W/ Destroyer, 3 points, 6 on allowance.

2x Berserkers, 6 points each, 12 total

15 points.

Every turn you are dropping FT, putting your remaining 3 focus on Butcher and maybe 1 or 2 on the Des. Now you can run, charge, and make a couple power attacks for free with all your jacks. When you get your blob into range, pop FT, pop Feat, keep the remaining focus on Butcher and charge him in. Charge your 3 jacks in for free too and proceed to wreck face.

Really Butcher is a melee beatstick, but he can also run jacks like a hot damn. Especially Berserkers!

New players exploring the game are fantastic! It's this kind of thinking that will propel you far in Warmachine/Hordes.

Just make sure you read all the rules involved. As already has been pointed out, 'Zerkers charge and run for free. Full Throttle could still be of use to get a free slam or trample, but consider: You are spending 3 focus on a 6 focus caster to give boosted melee attack rolls to your 'Zerkers who all have P+S 16 axes. It's not very efficient, and there are far better uses of that focus as you will discover as you play the game.

Don't mean to be such a Debby Downer. Keep playing and keep coming up with the combo's!

If you're really wanting to run jack heavy, you might want to consider Karchev.

Unearthly Rage makes all battlegroup (Including his) attacks boosted to attack and damage and can be cast for 3 every turn. And the free run and charge helps them keep up with him. He can also slingshot them at the enemy with Tow spell and has Sidearms spell to stop jacks being knocked down and give K and his jacks a DEf bonus.

That said, I don't think it's the best Khador list in the world, but if it's mutiple jacks you want... He's called Karchev the Terrible because he's a terrible caster.


Maybe OT, but here's as silly 50 pts Karchev tier list I thought up using the new jacks from Reckoning.

K
3 Ragers
6 Mad Dogs
3 Ternion
2x3 Man O War Demo Corps

That's 9 jacks with 31 boxes each, plus 48 boxes of medium infantry and 3 wizards to cloud up your jacks.

Involves taking 16 points of rubbish troops, but with 9 tier discount points from your jacks, that makes them a lot more reasonablely pointed.

Does lack mekaniks though...

Or you could go full idiot mode and take Karchev and 11 Mad Dogs. For 3 focus for Unearthly Rage you're getting up to 54 focus worth of attack and damage boosts for your battlegroup. (11x4 for Mad Dogs and K has 2 initials + up to 3 more bought attacks that also get fully boosted as well).
Note that if the Mad Dogs go trample mad and each attacks more than two targets, your focus efficiency gets even crazier. And MAT5+4D6 is going to hit even Iron Flesh Kayazy quite reliably.


Gaz

Whydfo people insist on doing karchev jackspam in his tier, you spend 12points on MoW to save 9 pts in jacks, youre better off doing the same out of tier and getting a koldun and a war dog, or Sylyss and upgrade a mad dog to a rager. Both of these options add useful utility far beyond what the MoW DC do for the list.

Agreed that Ternion and MoW are not great, and certainly not worth 16 points.

But for 7 points they're an absolute bargain. It's like getting 2 (subpar) units of Great Bears and 3 clouds/ sprays on a stick for 7 points.

Translating that to non-tier, dropping the 6 mow and ternion, what do you get for 7 points that's better?

Anyway, to original poster, still not sure that Khador does mass jacks well. I'd be inclined to go Victor and lotsa infantry for a "serious" list.


Gaz