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Redoing my list from here in light of the new Dark Angels codex. Only have a wonky leaked copy to work with right now (will get it for real soon-ish) so forgive me if I make some mistakes.
My army's still gonna be a mix of the Angels of Vengeance successor chapter and Vanilla DAs (apparently not as odd as I thought), so I'll be giving which paint scheme each thing's getting (sometimes just planned, others are basecoated already) just in case anyone's interested in the painting side of this, feel free to ignore this if you want. I'll also be giving how far along I am in building and painting just to keep in mind for change suggestions that might require remodelling.
I still find it tricky to handle little upgrades like Melta Bombs for people and such, so any really good minor upgrades that I might've missed would be welcome.
No particular points total in mind because I'll just take stuff in and out as need be, just looking to have both Detachments workable. Not in too good of a spot financially but could get at least some stuff (more details on what I'm thinking about with that at the end).

REGULAR CAD

HQ:
Power Armor Librarian (AOV with no blue, built and basecoated)
Normal Power Armor
Force Sword
Mastery Level 2
90

Troops:
Tactical Squad (AOV, built and basecoated)
10 guys
Sergeant has Chainsword and Plasma Pistol
Plasma Gun
Plasma Cannon
185

UNKNOWN TROOPS UNIT TO BE ADDED

Elites:
Venerable Dreadnought (Vanilla Deathwing, built but unpainted, mostly swappable equipment, Smoke Launcher isn't attached)
Assault Cannon
Power Fist with Heavy Flamer
145

Venerable Dreadnought (AOV, mostly built but unpainted, don't have the Missile Launcher yet) - Might make into a Mark V Mortis if possible
Twin-linked Lascannon
Missile Launcher
150

Fast Attack:
Assault Squad (AOV, built but unpainted)
5 guys with Jump Packs
Veteran Sergeant with Power Sword and Plasma Pistol
1 guy has Plasma Pistol/Chainsword
All others have Bolt Pistol/Chainsword
120

Ravenwing Bike Squad (Vanilla Ravenwing, built and basecoated)
3 guys
All have Chainswords
Veteran Sergeant
75

Heavy Support:
Vindicator (AOV, built and basecoated)
Storm Bolter with a Marine on top
Siege Shield
135

Lord Of War:
Azrael (AOV Proxy model, built and basecoated but will probably swap bits to make him look tbe part)
No changes that I could see.
215

Deathwing Strike Force:

HQ TO BE ADDED

Deathwing Terminator Squad (Vanilla Deathwing, built and basecoated)
5 guys
1 Assault Cannon
1 Chainfist
225

Deathwing Terminator Squad (AOV, built but unpainted)
5 guys
2 Chainfists
Assault Cannon/Cyclone Missile Launcher (Not sure which to keep and which to pluck off, any suggestions would be handy)
230/235

Have an unopened Deathwing box, not sure whether to bulk out of the Termie squads (the Deathwing-colored one I think), make Knights or make a Command Squad, advice would be handy
Now obviously the first step would be to keep another thing of Troops (thinking Scouts) and a Terminator HQ (was thinking the new Librarian Termie or making the Captain Karlean model from Shield of Baal into an AOV Belial proxy, leaning towards the former). Also need to fix up my Anti-Tank stuff, thinking of either another box of Ravenwing Bikers to bulk up the Bike Squad (giving them Meltas) or getting a Devestator Squad, any advice would be handy on that too.

Won't make a Ravenwing detachments for a while, gonna wait until more financial stability and the possibility of an HQ FAQ before going for that.

Bumping because I still need input.
Found a good auction for a load of Dark Vengeance Tactical Marines (some painted, admittedly vanilla colors rather than AOV but I suppose that just makes my Chapter-mixing more consistent) at a really good price. If I win that auction that'll be my Troops issue solved. But there's still quite a bit of time to go so I could lose it in which case I'd like to know what the second thing of Troops should be (current thought is Scouts with Sniper Rifles and a Missile Launcher). And I'd definitely like a suggestion for my Deathwing HQ, probably would like to have a Termie Librarian but not sure how to set him up either.

Also would definitely like input on which weapon to remove from that problem squad (currently thinking of ditching the CML because it'll be easier to remove and using the Assault Cannon is more consistent and something I understand better, but if the CML is awesome then I don't want to screw myself over) because that's the main thing stopping me from painting the models I've already got. Suggestions on what to do with the Deathwing box would be nice too (currently thinking a Command Squad, but not absolutely certain).

The big general advice is that you should play with a Combined Arms Detachment to begin with, as you are, but decide now whether you want to:
A) Build 5 and then 5 more power armor units and their transports for the Lion's Blade detachment - paint them as something other than green to proxy them as other Space Marine chapters!
or B) Build Ravenwing, possibly with Deathwing as well. This may be the more competitive option.

Librarians are still the best overall HQ, but never on foot; always on a bike, terminator armor, or sometimes Ezekiel. A Force Axe provides AP2 to Instant Death elite warlords and monsters. Yes it's Unwieldy but anything requiring Instant Death will likely swing before Initiative 4 anyway.

Unfortunately Tactical Squads don't have much utility outside of the Demi-Company formation. Scouts hugely benefit from Objective Secured within a Combined Arms Detachment combined with their Infiltrate. If you want green power armor dudes, go all in and build the 5 or 10 units and their transports for the Lion's Blade. And while Grim Resolve is good, the other Chapter Tactics are better, so leave yourself the option of playing a Gladius Strike Force as well. Make your own colors and logo!

A Vindicator by itself is an easy target choice, but it could hide within a mechanized Lion's Blade full of Rhinos and Razorbacks (or next to two Land Raiders full of Deathwing Knights.)

You may be better off playing Azrael's model as a Company Master, especially in lower point games. (you can give him a relic or two and say it's when he was younger!) Azreal's big value is with allies like Astra Millitarum blobs. Likewise, Belial unfortunately isn't worth that many points. Of course both of these characters are genuinely fun to play so don't let that stop you yet.

If you can make Deathwing Knights from your box, always make Deathwing Knights. Keep the two Deathwing Terminator squads to fill required formation/detachment slots, but after that always build Knights. Deathwing Knights in a CAD should ride in a Land Raider, but they're worth including alone before the other Deathwing units. A Deathwing Command squad is also valuable with an HQ that can Deep Strike.

Your first Ravenwing purchases should be a full Black Knight Command Squad (with Apothecary) and then a Dark Shroud to cover them (and your scouts.) They have plenty of value in a CAD with a biker HQ and don't need to be in their own detachment, but it sure helps.

Consider magnetizing the terminator weapons. That choice should compliment the rest of your list's need for more anti-tank or more anti-infantry. Or leave them both on and your opponent should understand which you paid for.

This is mostly conventional wisdom from reading this big dumb forum.

Azereal is a waste of points. He is really bad, don't take him its a lot of points that can best be used in other ways. At the end of the day he only has a 4 up invulunerable, t4, and no eternal warrior, he can be killed very easily, and for the points he costs he brings very little to the table. Your better off just bringing a company master.

Tactical squad

1 grav gun
1 combi grav
1 grav canoon with grav amp,

much win very wow.

If you need them for anti tank then get meltas,

if you can get them up close and have trouble with horde units, then give them flamer, combi-flamer.

If your going to be running a lot of terminators prepared to be disappointed there not very good, just a warning before you consider a deathwing army.

Biggest thing is your army is all over the place, my advice is think what kind of army you want to run, and figure out what you need from there.

I know it can be tough to build lists when you have random models, but it is important to have a plan.

Also I would say the best combined list I have seen is ravenwing, with a libby enclave. All the libbies on bikes, and a ravenwing force. Other than that dark angels seem to work best, if they just run as a solo codex. You can run a double demi-company with free transports and do a lot of work.

But here is my biggest advice. Dark angels, at least for me, is about the ravenwing and deathwing, if I want to use basic marines I might as well run the vanella marine codex. So if your intent is to run a lot of basic marines just go with the vanella codex its over all better for that.

IF you want to run a deathwing army, or a ravenwing then DA is for you, best I Can say is have a plan and play an army you would like most. You have a lot of random stuff, that you can take in any direction if you wanted to.

Anyway best of luck!

I'll just address Azrael first, yeah I know he might not be optimal so I might leave him out a good portion of the time (plan is that I want to make one big list so I can split out what I want to take each time). Then again if I win that eBay auction I'll get two more of that Company Master who I'm not all that interested in fielding anyway and I do eventually plan to do a Guard army so having him around to stick to a Platoon would be cool.

axisofentropy wrote:The big general advice is that you should play with a Combined Arms Detachment to begin with, as you are, but decide now whether you want to:
A) Build 5 and then 5 more power armor units and their transports for the Lion's Blade detachment - paint them as something other than green to proxy them as other Space Marine chapters!
or B) Build Ravenwing, possibly with Deathwing as well. This may be the more competitive option.

Definitely B, don't wanna do the big goofy Detachment and have to buy all those Razorbacks. Plan is I'll do DeathRaven with an additional CAD for other stuff that won't fit (or having my Dreadnoughts without Drop Pods).

axisofentropy wrote:Librarians are still the best overall HQ, but never on foot; always on a bike, terminator armor, or sometimes Ezekiel. A Force Axe provides AP2 to Instant Death elite warlords and monsters. Yes it's Unwieldy but anything requiring Instant Death will likely swing before Initiative 4 anyway.

Yeah, Power Armor Libby is mostly because he was in the Dark Vengeance kit and the only guy I had left to lead my dudes excluding Company Master/Proxy Azrael.
As far as weapons, was kinda split between the Axe and Sword for Termie Libby if I get him. Would've been a no-brainer if I could've stuck a Storm Shield on him... Still not TOO adverse to giving him an Axe (I like axes), though admittedly I'd have to get one (whereas I'm pretty sure my Deathwing box will have a Power Sword in it for Sergeants that I probably won't be using that could easily be used as a Force Sword).

axisofentropy wrote:Unfortunately Tactical Squads don't have much utility outside of the Demi-Company formation. Scouts hugely benefit from Objective Secured within a Combined Arms Detachment combined with their Infiltrate. If you want green power armor dudes, go all in and build the 5 or 10 units and their transports for the Lion's Blade. And while Grim Resolve is good, the other Chapter Tactics are better, so leave yourself the option of playing a Gladius Strike Force as well. Make your own colors and logo!

Fair enough, I'll plunk down for some Scouts (thinking of Sniper Rifles and a Missile Launcher) if I lose that auction.
As far as the other stuff, I am partially doing a successor but it's an official one (though I am potentially changing the coloring just a little) and if I want to use the vanilla Codex I'll make a Black Templar army in the future.

axisofentropy wrote:A Vindicator by itself is an easy target choice, but it could hide within a mechanized Lion's Blade full of Rhinos and Razorbacks (or next to two Land Raiders full of Deathwing Knights.)

Fair enough, not a whole lot I can do about it right now but I'll keep all that in mind.

axisofentropy wrote:If you can make Deathwing Knights from your box, always make Deathwing Knights. Keep the two Deathwing Terminator squads to fill required formation/detachment slots, but after that always build Knights. Deathwing Knights in a CAD should ride in a Land Raider, but they're worth including alone before the other Deathwing units. A Deathwing Command squad is also valuable with an HQ that can Deep Strike.

Fair enough point I suppose. Kinda was between those two anyway (Knights were my first thought, but now I'm considering one Command Squad because HELL YEAH DEATHWING CHAMPION!). Would probably only make more vanilla Termies for expanding those two squads if I ever did. I will say it'll be a while before I can consider a Land Raider of any sort, need to stabilize my army first.

axisofentropy wrote:Your first Ravenwing purchases should be a full Black Knight Command Squad (with Apothecary) and then a Dark Shroud to cover them (and your scouts.) They have plenty of value in a CAD with a biker HQ and don't need to be in their own detachment, but it sure helps.

Yeah, was thinking my first purchase after Meltaguns for my Bikers and maybe a Combi-Melta for my Bike Sergeant would definitely be Black Knights. Hadn't really put thought into the Ravenwing Command Squad but it does sound solid. Though I might go for the Dark Angels Battleforce first. I would get run-of-the-mill Black Knights rather than a Command Squad but I would get an Attack Bike for the Bike Squad (additional Melta fun!) and a Land Speeder I might be able to make into Sammael on Sablecraw so I can get the Ravenwing Strike Force started. Obviously the Darkshould would be a must and I'll try to pick that up ASAP too.

axisofentropy wrote:Consider magnetizing the terminator weapons. That choice should compliment the rest of your list's need for more anti-tank or more anti-infantry. Or leave them both on and your opponent should understand which you paid for.

Can't magnetize, I already glued them on and I don't have magnets. Maybe I could magnetize what I plucked off, but not sure. Also I don't really feel comfortable keeping both and pretending one isn't there (invisible Melta Bombs and "Venerable" Dreadnoughts are one thing but that's really pushing it).

Desrok1 wrote:Tactical squad

1 grav gun
1 combi grav
1 grav canoon with grav amp,

much win very wow.

If you need them for anti tank then get meltas,

if you can get them up close and have trouble with horde units, then give them flamer, combi-flamer.

Good point and will keep those in mind! If I win the auction I suspect they'll all be Dark Vengeance-standard full Plasma but I can always get some bits and convert them later. And I probably will because the Plasma Cannon is apparently crap and even if it isn't it still forces me to Combat Squad or else lose use of that weapon (whereas the Heavy Flamer is Assault and the Grav-Cannon is Salvo so those'll be fine).

Desrok1 wrote:If your going to be running a lot of terminators prepared to be disappointed there not very good, just a warning before you consider a deathwing army.

I gathered from what I read and made peace with it mostly. At least it sounds like they're USABLE and won't give me trouble in casual play, so there's that at least.

Desrok1 wrote:Biggest thing is your army is all over the place, my advice is think what kind of army you want to run, and figure out what you need from there.

I know it can be tough to build lists when you have random models, but it is important to have a plan.

Well, partly intentional (I don't have a "spam this one thing" type plan) and partly just because it isn't properly developed yet. Plan is mostly just Deathwing Strike Force and Ravenwing Strike Force with a CAD to contain the neat things that won't fit into those (plus Dreadnoughts if I take the CAD), with the ability to just cut out the parts of the "full list" I want to bring each time. Though I get the feeling the CAD's gonna show up less and less as I go along.

Desrok1 wrote:Also I would say the best combined list I have seen is ravenwing, with a libby enclave. All the libbies on bikes, and a ravenwing force. Other than that dark angels seem to work best, if they just run as a solo codex. You can run a double demi-company with free transports and do a lot of work.

But here is my biggest advice. Dark angels, at least for me, is about the ravenwing and deathwing, if I want to use basic marines I might as well run the vanella marine codex. So if your intent is to run a lot of basic marines just go with the vanella codex its over all better for that.

IF you want to run a deathwing army, or a ravenwing then DA is for you, best I Can say is have a plan and play an army you would like most. You have a lot of random stuff, that you can take in any direction if you wanted to.

Anyway best of luck!

I'll keep the Enclave in mind, double demi-company is probably out though. Also I do have plans for some allying shenanigans later on, but a lot of that just has to do with potentially running more armies in the future (ones in mind are Imperial Guard, Black Templars, Grey Knights and Imperial Knights. Last one's the only one where the focus would be just on it as an Ally rather than me wanting to just build that army and maybe fielding my armies together when appropriate).

And yeah, my eyes are definitely on Deathwing and Ravenwing primarily. Main reason there's been more attention to other stuff was because of how I had to split my army due to the removal of FOC-moving.

And thank you! Sounds like I might need some luck...

If you are up for it I'd just sell your terminators on ebay and buy some ravenwing blackknights.

They are way more effective, more fun to play and they work fine in a regular CAD.

Else I'd agree with the comments that Deathwing Knights > Regular deathwing.

 jadedknight wrote:
If you are up for it I'd just sell your terminators on ebay and buy some ravenwing blackknights.

They are way more effective, more fun to play and they work fine in a regular CAD.

Else I'd agree with the comments that Deathwing Knights > Regular deathwing.

yes but regular deathwing are a little cheaper after upgrades (if you don't go overboard) and they can do things Knights can't. If I deepstrike Knights in their going to run to a point then stop and get shot at. If I deepstrike normal ones in they land, shoot someone, and then run to a set point and get shot at. They make for a great way to drop and and reduce things like crisis suits to goo with plasma cannons and assault cannons.

They also can drop in and support existing boots on the ground lending them their firepower and close combat expertise.

Anyway op you have a solid list to grow into maybe full the second troops slot with scouts. I'm a big advocate for their use even by non codex marines like us or blood Angels. Their a solid skirmish unit that can just be an absolute menace if it can get around and behind enemies.

CrashGordon94 wrote:

axisofentropy wrote:Your first Ravenwing purchases should be a full Black Knight Command Squad (with Apothecary) and then a Dark Shroud to cover them (and your scouts.) They have plenty of value in a CAD with a biker HQ and don't need to be in their own detachment, but it sure helps.

Yeah, was thinking my first purchase after Meltaguns for my Bikers and maybe a Combi-Melta for my Bike Sergeant would definitely be Black Knights. Hadn't really put thought into the Ravenwing Command Squad but it does sound solid. Though I might go for the Dark Angels Battleforce first. I would get run-of-the-mill Black Knights rather than a Command Squad but I would get an Attack Bike for the Bike Squad (additional Melta fun!) and a Land Speeder I might be able to make into Sammael on Sablecraw so I can get the Ravenwing Strike Force started. Obviously the Darkshould would be a must and I'll try to pick that up ASAP too.

The Black Knights in the battleforce is the same kit - so you can make a command squad with it no issues. The box also comes with the old RW upgrade sprue, which has everything you need to turn a land speeder into Sableclaw.

jadedknight wrote:If you are up for it I'd just sell your terminators on ebay and buy some ravenwing blackknights.

They are way more effective, more fun to play and they work fine in a regular CAD.

Else I'd agree with the comments that Deathwing Knights > Regular deathwing.

Not really up for that at all to be honest. :/ I know Termies might not be optimal but I still like them and they don't sound completely unusable or anything.

But yeah definitely getting Black Knights (in fact, not totally certain I'll ever get more bog-standard Ravenwing Bike Squads since they're now in the same FOC slot for both CADs and the Ravenwing Strike Force. Then again I'll have to see how my Melta Bikers turn out. Probably not a lot better than Plasma Talon fun but will keep that in my mind at least) and it sounds like Knights are a better choice than bog-standard Termies (since I'm going to be going up against Nids and Guard quite a bit, I can probably handle their less-impressive AP), though I'll admit that I'm still tempted by at least one Deathwing Command Squad (probably just the one, I can only have one Champion and if he's any good, one Apothecary).

ionusx wrote:yes but regular deathwing are a little cheaper after upgrades (if you don't go overboard) and they can do things Knights can't. If I deepstrike Knights in their going to run to a point then stop and get shot at. If I deepstrike normal ones in they land, shoot someone, and then run to a set point and get shot at. They make for a great way to drop and and reduce things like crisis suits to goo with plasma cannons and assault cannons.

They also can drop in and support existing boots on the ground lending them their firepower and close combat expertise.

Anyway op you have a solid list to grow into maybe full the second troops slot with scouts. I'm a big advocate for their use even by non codex marines like us or blood Angels. Their a solid skirmish unit that can just be an absolute menace if it can get around and behind enemies.

Part of why I'm probably going to keep the pair of normal Termie squads around (and wouldn't be adverse to expanding them to full strength, though probably not building more).

And thank you. Definitely sounds like I should go for Scouts if I lose that auction. How should I equip them? Was thinking of Sniper Rifles and Missile Launcher, though I'm open for other suggestions.
So it seems like the outstanding questions are:
1) How to equip my Scouts
2) Should my Bike Sergeant get a Combi-Melta to match his underlings' Meltas?
3) Knights or Command Squad from the Deathwing box? Definitely sounds like Knights are better than standard Termies to most but not sure how they compare to the Command Squad.
4) Is the Battleforce a good idea? Would get a squad of Black Knights, an Attack Bike and Sableclaw (if I know what I'm doing). Sounds like it is.
5) Force Axe or Force Sword for Termie Libby?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Quanar wrote:

CrashGordon94 wrote:

axisofentropy wrote:Your first Ravenwing purchases should be a full Black Knight Command Squad (with Apothecary) and then a Dark Shroud to cover them (and your scouts.) They have plenty of value in a CAD with a biker HQ and don't need to be in their own detachment, but it sure helps.

Yeah, was thinking my first purchase after Meltaguns for my Bikers and maybe a Combi-Melta for my Bike Sergeant would definitely be Black Knights. Hadn't really put thought into the Ravenwing Command Squad but it does sound solid. Though I might go for the Dark Angels Battleforce first. I would get run-of-the-mill Black Knights rather than a Command Squad but I would get an Attack Bike for the Bike Squad (additional Melta fun!) and a Land Speeder I might be able to make into Sammael on Sablecraw so I can get the Ravenwing Strike Force started. Obviously the Darkshould would be a must and I'll try to pick that up ASAP too.

The Black Knights in the battleforce is the same kit - so you can make a command squad with it no issues. The box also comes with the old RW upgrade sprue, which has everything you need to turn a land speeder into Sableclaw.

Ah, great! I guess that should be my next Ravenwing purchase, then!

Just one thing, is the old RW upgrade sprue plastic? If not I'll need new glue.

Scouts really shouldn't have sniper rifles anymore their a bit useless unless you play cities of death.

I usually go bolters or pistols n swords

The missle launcher is bad because sniper rifles aren't very good, if it can't match the ranges of the squads guns your not going to get much use from it. However the heavy bolter isn't bad situationally, if you want to make a squad a nice easy number to manage, 6 scouts, heavy bolter, hellfire shells.

Bolter scouts and pistol scouts are good for flanking on the table and taking objectives that are really out of the way and far from the fighting. The heavy bolter is good if they go hole down and watch an objective or if you need them to just stay put. The heavy bolter only replaces their bolter so he still has a pistol to shoot.

Shotguns really are a codex marines weapon, you won't make much use of shotguns. They really require having the land speeder storm or some way to transport them across the table like a rhino. It's great if you can get in close.

CrashGordon94 wrote:
Just one thing, is the old RW upgrade sprue plastic? If not I'll need new glue.

Yes, it's plastic.

ionusx wrote:Scouts really shouldn't have sniper rifles anymore their a bit useless unless you play cities of death.

Oh I see, might I ask why? Looked good on paper, just curious as to what I was missing. Is it because they're Heavy rather than Rapid Fire or Assault?

ionusx wrote:I usually go bolters or pistols n swords

The missle launcher is bad because sniper rifles aren't very good, if it can't match the ranges of the squads guns your not going to get much use from it. However the heavy bolter isn't bad situationally, if you want to make a squad a nice easy number to manage, 6 scouts, heavy bolter, hellfire shells.

Bolter scouts and pistol scouts are good for flanking on the table and taking objectives that are really out of the way and far from the fighting. The heavy bolter is good if they go hole down and watch an objective or if you need them to just stay put. The heavy bolter only replaces their bolter so he still has a pistol to shoot.

All fair enough. Probably will only be able to build the minimal 5 I suspect, but Bolters and Heavy Bolter sounds pretty good now! Particularly good about the Heavy Bolter guy keeping his Pistol, thought the HB would cripple his moving fire stuff.

ionusx wrote:Shotguns really are a codex marines weapon, you won't make much use of shotguns. They really require having the land speeder storm or some way to transport them across the table like a rhino. It's great if you can get in close.

Fair enough, sounds about right. Apparently they're good for Black Templar Neophytes but that's a discussion for another day (and also admittedly the reason why I'll probably go with Boltguns this time around, keep some space Bolt Pistol/Chainsword arms for my potential future Neophytes).

Quanar wrote:Yes, it's plastic.

Ah, excellent! That's a relief.