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So, I've been thinking about getting a few Death Guard models to paint up as loyalists as part of an artistic exercise, but after talking with a friend we're both thinking about having a look at the FW Heresy rules.
Are they particularly different from regular 40k? Are they better? Does it matter which legion you pick?
What we sorta need is an idiot's guide to this game :p

Thanks guys

The game rules are the same as 40k
The army rules (unique legiones astartes rules) can be found in the isstvan campaign legions book (e.g iron hands get FNP, Alpha Legion can infiltrate)

every Legion gets its own set of rules, upgrades and special units. The Death Guard army are immune to fear and automatically pass pinning checks, they can re-roll failed dangerous terrain tests in swamps, mud and toxic sludge. All Death Guard Flamers get Shred and Gets Hot and Power Scythes just to name some things that make Death Guard Death guard.. So all in all the legions are a unique way of playing Space Marines.

The way you pick a legion is just choose a your Hq and say which legion he belongs to, however if you use say a character like Montarion the Death Guard Primarch, you must play Death Guard no mixing and matching.

It doesnt really matter what legion you pick, just keep in mind they all have advantages and disadvantages. e.g. Salamanders get -1 to run and charge rolls and cant add their initiative to sweeping advance. So have fun

 Vulkan Fran'cis wrote:
every Legion gets its own set of rules, upgrades and special units. The Death Guard army are immune to fear and automatically pass pinning checks, they can re-roll failed dangerous terrain tests in swamps, mud and toxic sludge. All Death Guard Flamers get Shred and Gets Hot and Power Scythes just to name some things that make Death Guard Death guard.. So all in all the legions are a unique way of playing Space Marines.

The way you pick a legion is just choose a your Hq and say which legion he belongs to, however if you use say a character like Montarion the Death Guard Primarch, you must play Death Guard no mixing and matching.

It doesnt really matter what legion you pick, just keep in mind they all have advantages and disadvantages. e.g. Salamanders get -1 to run and charge rolls and cant add their initiative to sweeping advance. So have fun

When you say "no mixing and matching" you forgot about Alpharius' special rule, where he can take a unique unit from another legion and field it

Huh, that actually sounds pretty cool.

IS it more balanced than 40k? What with everyone playing Space Marine variants.

There will be others who disagree with me but I say that yes, it is definitely far more balanced.

I run a WE HH army, it is extremely balanced but slightly weaker against some regular 40k armies.

It seems much more balanced, but below 2000 pts, heresy armies feel weaker. At 2000, roughly equal. Beyond 2000, heresy armies feel more powerful. This was all pre Necron codex, so I'm not sure how they compare these days.

Thank you guys and girls

30K is largely very balanced. The Legions are still just marines, die as easily as marines do in 40K, and don't even have ATSKNF to save them in assaults. The Solar Auxilia is kind of like an army of IG stormtroopers/veteran squads, but an army of T3, 4+ save dudesmen still don't survive very long, either. The militias and cults are largely Imperial Guard equivalents. The Mechanicum may be the odd one out, as it is so completely different from anything GW had ever released before it, that many first time opponents will boggle at their laundry list of rules, stats, and abilities.

And, simply put, there is nothing 30K can do that 40K armies can't do better. True, 40K has very few, if any, characters that can stand up to a Primarch in a one-on-one fight, but Primarchs are a huge investment in points (for the Primarch itself, their bodyguard, and a delivery system, you're looking at close to 1000 points), so you won't often see them in anything less than a 2500pt game.

And large numbers of footslogging marines (which HH favours) is utter suicide in 40k. It's happy hour for everything from Leman Russ to Riptides.

Hard to say, balanced or not. I've seen close games. And i've seen an Iron hands list with lots of javelins (or how are those s6 guns with a million of shots that generate another half a million called?)? plasma and artillery wiping out a themed Night lords light assault fear list in 2 turns.

It's just a bit different and closer to 5-th ed army composition-wise. Has unique missions that are closer to 5-th ed once again. So, if you like 5 ed that's more shooty and landraider-deathstar oriented and that's about marines vs marines, you'll like HH.

It's a much more balanced ruleset because for the most part, everyone is picking from the same pool of toys.
The vast majority of armies are drawn from the Legiones Astartes army list, which covers just about the full spectrum of Marine warfare. Everyone has access to all of the same units and the list is tremendously diverse; start with 5 Troops choice and only expand from there. The list can play infantry spam, elite, mechanised, armoured, flier, Jump....
Easily the most diverse army list for any faction.

On top of this, you choose a single Legion to play from. This opens up a few army-wide rules and a handful of unique units, characters and formations.
For example, World Eaters gain significant boosts to close combat along with some truly scary Terminator brutes, characters like Kharn and Angron, and an army build that rewards throwing down masses of especially angry infantry.
However just because this is the World Eaters stereotype, you can still play them as a Rhino rush, as an all-Jumping aerial host, as an artillery company etc.
Generally speaking, every Legion is balanced along the assumption that they will be played 'in-character' and rewarded for playing fluffy.

The game is also naturally suited for bigger games due to its reliance on larger squads, tank squadrons, Lords of War and dedicated specialists gathered into single units. You should consider 2000pts to be the starting point, and units of 20-men plus supporting officers is extremely common. This is not a game that rewards MSU play, but rather grinding masses and 'silver bullets' mixed in with devastating close combat sweeps.

Mechanicum stands out as the odd duck precisely because it does not draw from the Legions army list, and so has access to units that can be considered hard-counters to Marines. They have plentiful access to AP3, T6+ and generally make a mess of the board. That's not to say that they are unfair, but that it is easier to tailor with them.

 Ashiraya wrote:
There will be others who disagree with me but I say that yes, it is definitely far more balanced.

Its more balanced than 40k, however its nowhere near perfect balance. For an example, Emperor's Children get Crusader, while Imperial Fists get +1 BS to all Bolter weapons, and Tank Hunters for Heavy Support Squads. Iron Warriors get Wrecker on all their grenade and bombs, while Iron Hands count all shooting attacks made against them as -1 Strength.

What holds it all together is, with the exception of some special legion-sepcific units, HQs, and wargear, everyone is otherwise drawing from the same Army List.

 jasper76 wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
There will be others who disagree with me but I say that yes, it is definitely far more balanced.

Its more balanced than 40k, however its nowhere near perfect balance. For an example, Emperor's Children get Crusader, while Imperial Fists get +1 BS to all Bolter weapons, and Tank Hunters for Heavy Support Squads. Iron Warriors get Wrecker on all their grenade and bombs, while Iron Hands count all shooting attacks made against them as -1 Strength.

What holds it all together is, with the exception of some special legion-sepcific units, HQs, and wargear, everyone is otherwise drawing from the same Army List.

I'll also say that while I only own a small WE force and have never played a game of 30k, just working out fluffy lists for my prospective opponents upsets me in balance terms.

It's still based on the 40k rules, so shooting and durability are still king. And even though everyone has access to the same units, some units are clearly inferior to others, and the fluff for some legions favors strong units, while the fluff for others favors weak units.

As the poster above mentioned, if you're trying to build a fluffy force for a very tough/shooty legion that uses a lot of tanks and artillery with powerful ranged weaponry, your list will probably kick the crap out of a fluffy list for a legion that thematically involves a lot of moving forward to get into hand to hand combat. And units are usually large and massively expensive in both points and dollars, so you probably won't have many options to pick from before you hit 2,000 points and/or break the bank - this weakens the value of everyone having access to the same units, because even picking a few off-theme units to balance your list out eats up a big chunk of your points and dilutes your fluff theme.

For example, with my World Eaters, I really want a few big blocks of marines running up the field with chain axes, assault marines, and cataphracti terminators. That alone is most of a 2,000 point list and includes no way to actually get those units up the field, and nothing in the way of anti-tank outside of melee. So I throw in a Contemptor because they're cool, but give it all ranged weapons (boo!) because I need some firepower, and at least that can advance with everyone else. I can put in some apothecaries to keep my dudesmen alive longer, and I can squeeze in points for a transport to get my terminators up the board. This looks like a semi-viable list to me, and it feels like a very World Eaters list. However, I also know that if my Imperial Fists playing friend went all out with his list, with Vindicators and tank-hunter devastators and accurate bolter fire hunkered down in ruins or fortifications, I would get severely mauled by massed (fluffy) firepower, and then if/when I got to close combat, the World Eaters buffs are so minor (and I would likely be so outnumbered) I doubt I could even carry the day. Not to mention the cost to even finish that list is fairly astronomical in my mind. I pretty much wish I had picked a different legion.

So in short, the legion rules are not quite equal, and fluffy builds for each legion are definitely not equal. This really only seems to be mitigated by the fact that most people play 30k for funsies and rule of cool. People field sub-optimal lists full of footslogging infantry even though as Iron Hands it would make perfect sense to take a ton of rapiers and heavy armor and utterly annihilate the World Eaters, Emperor's Children, or Night Lords trying to get across the board.

More balanced than 40k, but it's still Games Workshop - actual balance will depend on how you and your opponents approach list building.