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Hi, All,

This is a list I'm planning on using in a local tournament next month. Whilst I do want to be competitive and do the best I can, I really don't want to spend too much money on new models and rules purely for the tournament, so I'd be limited to max one more Flyrant (which I'd convert up) and ideally don't want to delve into Forge World (unless the rules are available for free too). It's using the ITC rulepack (thinkt hat's what it's called) which is basically max 3 detachments and one LoW per player, battle forged only, no duplicate detachments and, perhaps importantly for me, an allied detachment can be the same faction as the main. The missions are quite complex, but basically a modified mix of Maelstrom and Eternal War missions.

Anyway, here's the list:

UPDATED LIST FURTHER DOWN THREAD

CAD

Flyrant w/ 2 TL Devourers, Hive Commander (250)
Flyrant w/ 2 TL Devourers (230)

30 Termagants (120)
Tervigon (195)
13 Termagants w/ Devourers (104)
12 Termagants w/ Devourers (96)

Venomthrope (45)
Venomthrope (45)
4 Zoanthropes w/ Neurothrope (225)

Tyrannocyte (75)

Aegis Defence Line w/ Comms Relay (75)

Dataslate - Artillery Node

3 Warriors w/ Barbed Strangler (100)
3 Biovores (120)
Exocrine (170)

TOTAL: 1850

---------------------

So the general plan is to have the artillery node, plus one Venomthrope, sit behind the Aegis on a home objective with a nice 2+ cover save. If I'm facing the type of army that I'll have to go to, then the Exocrine will have to move up due to its short range. The proximity to the comms relay will give me nice re-rolls for all my units in reserve, i.e. both Flyrants and both Devilgaunt units, one of which will be outflanking using Hive Commander and the other of which will be using the Tyrannocyte to DS. Tervigon spawns more gaunts to run after Maelstrom objectives and the big unit of Termagants provides cover for the Tervigon and hopefully goes and tarpits something. Then hopefully I shoot things and win

Anyway, I have the option of doing away with the Artillery Node completely and adding in a Carnifex in a Pod, a Mawloc or two, or perhaps another Flyrant. I do have a Triple Flyrant list written up which essentially replaces the Aegis, one Venomthrope, one Biovore and the Warriors with another Flyrant and stranglers on the pod, which may be a better alternative, but I kind of liked how this list operated on paper, so I thought I'd see what people thought.

Thanks in advance!

It doesn't look bad, but...you need to put a Thorax Hive on both Tyrants, and the Tervigon. It is far too good not to take, I think Electro grubs are the only reasonable choice, depending on your "meta"

Yeah, you could do with taking E-grubs on each of the Flyrants and Tervigon, it really adds a lot of utility in dealing with heavier vehicles we usually have severe issues with. Since you only have 1x Hive commander, I'd use it to Outflank the Tervigon most probably - I'd also consider merging some Dev Termas into the brood of 30, so that only 2 troop slots are filled, freeing up a lot of points. You have the option to outflank either a Tervi or a LOT of wounds that can spit out a ton of shots then.

If you're using the Zoans+Neuro, I honestly a) would not run more than 3, and b) consider giving them the pod. They are very slow, and a savvy foe will keep heavy armour away. However, I've used these guys extensively and honestly they end up pretty lacklustre - there's too many dice hurdles for them to get their powers off, sadly. You could drop them and replace with something else like a Dakkafex to go in that pod. The pod can also take the Exocrine or the Tervigon in a pinch but be aware for the Exo that disembarking counts as moving.

One other thing I'd consider is a Bunker in place of an Aegis. You can put a Venom in it to get a large area of shrouded, and stuff behind/on it/nearby in terrain will still get the same save the Aegis would confer. This would also let you cut down to one Venom if you really wanted - though that is risky - as the AV14 building protects it. You can also try an escape hatch for shenanigans there (20x Dev gaunts popping 18" out of a hole, then shooting 18" more is pretty tasty) - other options include a bigger warrior squad coming down to move forward and provide synapse/buff a podding Exocrine, or if you do want to go for a Malanthrope (FW - a screencap of the rules is available online if you're willing to go for that) then that is a good option to propel forward to shroud flying flyrants, provide synapse, and attempt to get its preferred enemy bubble triggered.

You could also just drop the Zoans for Flyrant number 3, or add in some Mawlocs they're never a bad choice.

I'm not really sold on E-grubs to be honest. On my flyrants I'm generally wanting to shoot both my TL Devs (and I don't think one haywire shot will make much difference either) and if my Tervigon is in range, it's likely wanting to just assault. I can see it being quite useful on the Tervigon though.

I've considered outflanking large units of devilgaunts but, in practice, I find it's very hard to fit the entire unit where I want it, hence why I've dropped down to units of 10-15.

Again, I'm not so sure why people like to outflank Tervigons. The Tervigon and the 30 gaunts advance up the board from Turn 1 and soak up fire, with the Tervigon spawning gaunts who split off and head for objectives. It's an approach that's worked well for me in the past, and I think outflanking my Tervigon would leave it too much out in the open, whereas if I advance it up it gets intervening models from the gaunts plus shrouded from the Venomthropes.

I do see your point about Zoanthropes... But I think the Neurothrope is pretty good though. I guess dropping one Zoanthrope would work quite well. Would a Dakkafex and maybe an extra pod definitely be a better use of the points?

Also, where do all these rules for Bunkers and stuff come from? I've heard of Nid players using them but don't really know much about it...

 The Shadow wrote:
I'm not really sold on E-grubs to be honest. On my flyrants I'm generally wanting to shoot both my TL Devs (and I don't think one haywire shot will make much difference either) and if my Tervigon is in range, it's likely wanting to just assault. I can see it being quite useful on the Tervigon though.

I've considered outflanking large units of devilgaunts but, in practice, I find it's very hard to fit the entire unit where I want it, hence why I've dropped down to units of 10-15.

Again, I'm not so sure why people like to outflank Tervigons. The Tervigon and the 30 gaunts advance up the board from Turn 1 and soak up fire, with the Tervigon spawning gaunts who split off and head for objectives. It's an approach that's worked well for me in the past, and I think outflanking my Tervigon would leave it too much out in the open, whereas if I advance it up it gets intervening models from the gaunts plus shrouded from the Venomthropes.

I do see your point about Zoanthropes... But I think the Neurothrope is pretty good though. I guess dropping one Zoanthrope would work quite well. Would a Dakkafex and maybe an extra pod definitely be a better use of the points?

Also, where do all these rules for Bunkers and stuff come from? I've heard of Nid players using them but don't really know much about it...

The E-grubs are insurance - 30 pts so that if your army comes up against AV 13-14, you actually have a shot at killing them (aside from Zoans, which are not reliable). You can plink away land raiders as you soar over them, whilst nothing else in the army can really. Also, if you end up on the ground and get charged by a Walker, it's a huge deterrent there. In certain situations the ignores cover can be handy too. Basically it's not that many points, and it's nice to have.

30 Gaunts is a lot to be fair - generally I'd put half dev and half standard though. But again, you don't have to outflank it, it's just an option. Putting an obsec MC that spawns more is a pretty big threat - taking the heat off your other stuff. Admittedly in your list it might not be the best bet, as it's good support for the LAN.

The Neuro again, is really nice in theory (and this is one unit I have desperately tried a lot) - but I dropped it eventually as I just felt other things would be reliably better.In my experience a dakkafex in a pod has proven more useful, actually clinching me a clutch draw on relic in a tournament (sniped Shadowsun off it and the game ended) - but I don't think you can ever say one unit is "strictly" better than another.

Bunkers and fortifications are from Stronghold Assault (6th ed) - essentially it holds 20, is AV14 4HP, 8 units can fire from the front, and anything in a building counts as the building for measuring distance - hence a large shrouded/synapse bubble. The Escape Hatch is an extra entry point up to 12" from the building, giving you 18" movement essentially. Again, opens up new tactical options that might be handy with your static LAN.

I have a little doubt, as it was mentioned now... the spawned termagants, are part of the detachment the Tervigon is? I mean, if it is a CAD the new termagants are treated as a troop of the CAD? o just as Troops of no specific detachment? (of course the question is if the new troop have the benefits of the detachment, if it has obsec if it is a CAD or if it gain the reroll to IB if it was Leviathan Detach.

I came to throw in my ideas, but you've received a lot of good knowledge here. Good luck on your event!

Good point about the E-grubs, though I feel I'll have to drop the Zoanthropes to fit them in, and I'm not sure the E-grubs alone will be enough. I have had good experiences with a Dakkafex in a pod though, so I may swap him in, as he'll help to take out high AV as well. And I'll have a look at those bunker rules.

What do people think of the effectiveness of the Artillery Node Dataslate? That would be something I could potentially drop for a Dakkafex.

 The Shadow wrote:
Good point about the E-grubs, though I feel I'll have to drop the Zoanthropes to fit them in, and I'm not sure the E-grubs alone will be enough. I have had good experiences with a Dakkafex in a pod though, so I may swap him in, as he'll help to take out high AV as well. And I'll have a look at those bunker rules.

What do people think of the effectiveness of the Artillery Node Dataslate? That would be something I could potentially drop for a Dakkafex.

The Artillery Node is quite good to be honest - the issue being, in Maelstrom it's pretty static and you do want that big unit of screening gaunts to prevent them getting charged. The other issue depends on the comp your tourney is using - if D is allowed, them being on the ground makes them quite vulnerable to it. For that reason it doesn't seem to be one of the top Nid builds atm, but it's certainly by no means bad.

Strength D is allowed, but it's maximum one LoW per player, which I guess limits the potential amount of D quite a bit.

Anyway, here's an alternate list I've thought up:

Edited

CAD

Hive Tyrant w/ TL Devourers, Electroshock Grubs + Hive Commander (260)
Hive Tyrant w/ TL Devourers + Electroshock Grubs (240)

30 Termagants (120)
Tervigon w/ Cluster Spines (200)
20 Termagants w/ Devourers (160)

Venomthrope (45)
Venomthrope (45)
Zoanthrope (50)

Tyrannocyte w/ Barbed Stranglers (100)
Carnifex w/ TL Devourers + Adrenal Glands (165)

Aegis Defence Line w/ Comms Relay (75)

Dataslate - Artillery Node

3 Warriors w/ Barbed Strangler (100)
3 Biovores (120)
Exocrine (170)

TOTAL: 1850

------------------

So I combined and compressed the devilgaunts a bit. They'll be outflanking like normal but I'm hoping a unit of 20 won't prove too big. I dropped down the Zoanthropes but kept the Neurothrope for the extra dice and the fact I still think it's a good unit, fairly cheap but a valid threat for my opponent. This allowed me to squeeze in Egrubs on both the Flyrants as well as a Dakkafex to go in the now vacant pod. Really liking this list, as it stands, actually.

You can't use a neurothrope alone, you need a brood of 3 zoantropes and then upgrade one to neurothrope for 25 pts (it's not a model of 75 alone, it's an "upgrade" )
So, it must be a zoanthrope and free 25 pts.

Damn I missed that. I guess that's 25 points for Barbed Stranglers on the Tyrannocyte at least...

So would a loan Zoanthrope be worth it then, or would I be better off dropping it and putting the points towards, say, a unit of 10 Gargoyles for some mobile cover?

I highly recommend dropping stuff to get the Neurothrope brood.

They always get work done for me - S10AP2 shooting (x3), Spirit Leech infantry crushing, Synapse, Mobiity (can always run), 3+ invul to absorb fire, and WC2 to fuel other powers I may have. For 175 pts it is IMO one of our best units.

If you are looking to free up pts, you could downgrade some of your outflanking devilgants to regular gants which will also act as buffer wounds.

Tervigon - Cluster spines is the small blast or large blast? I usually just use the Stinger Salvo since a scatter will likely wipe out some of my own gants. Miasma Cannon has been ok on my tervigon though. Or give it e-grubs and aggressively push towards vehicles.

1 Zoanthrope is good, 2 WC, synapse, 2 Psichic powers, for only 50 pts.

Feldon wrote:
I highly recommend dropping stuff to get the Neurothrope brood.

They always get work done for me - S10AP2 shooting (x3), Spirit Leech infantry crushing, Synapse, Mobiity (can always run), 3+ invul to absorb fire, and WC2 to fuel other powers I may have. For 175 pts it is IMO one of our best units.

If you are looking to free up pts, you could downgrade some of your outflanking devilgants to regular gants which will also act as buffer wounds.

Tervigon - Cluster spines is the small blast or large blast? I usually just use the Stinger Salvo since a scatter will likely wipe out some of my own gants. Miasma Cannon has been ok on my tervigon though. Or give it e-grubs and aggressively push towards vehicles.

Yeah, I've had some good luck with the Neurothrope brood though but, like others have said, it is hit and miss (something which I've also found), so I think for this tournament I'll try dropping them for something a tad more reliable. And, like Wallur says, a loan Zoanthrope still provides a lot of benefits for very cheap.

And Cluster Spines is the large blast - it's there just because I had 5 points left I do find it a lot more useful than Stinger Salvo though, and try and upgrade it when I can. E-grubs would indeed be better, but I'd need another 5pts for that.