Horus Heresy Plastic Space Marines by GW CONFIRMED (images 1st post)

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**Ferrum_Sanguinis**

Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
Necros wrote:
If they're making an all new warhammer 30k game, I would totally expect them to sigmarify the rules.. though maybe after the backlash this time they might actually add some kind of points or balancing mechanism (that won't work)

Backlash? People complain, but others are still happily buying. Wouldn't call a whole bunch of crying and raving online a "backlash"

I guess that explains why Matt Ward Still works there.

**ImAGeek**

Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
Necros wrote:
If they're making an all new warhammer 30k game, I would totally expect them to sigmarify the rules.. though maybe after the backlash this time they might actually add some kind of points or balancing mechanism (that won't work)

Backlash? People complain, but others are still happily buying. Wouldn't call a whole bunch of crying and raving online a "backlash"

I guess that explains why Matt Ward Still works there.

No he doesn't...

**STC_LogisEngine**

Exactly...

**Nocturnus**

Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
ImAGeek wrote:
Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Not just ANY marines, they're plastic MKIV 30K-era marines.

In other words 300x cooler than run-of-the-mill 40K marines.

Jarhead is a jarhead. Why is old marines more exciting than new marines? Same thing.

Because for those of us making 30k forces, this could save us quite a bit of money.

That's true and a good point.

Can I play 40K vs 30K?

Things tend to cost more in 30K, so a 40K army will tend to get more stuff. For HH you pay a premium for a minimal sized squad but it gets cheaper if you max it out. For example, if you take a Tactical squad, it's 150pts for 10. But you can buy up to 10 more marines for 10pts a piece. So, it encourages max squad size. I emailed FW awhile back asking the same thing and they told me that it wouldn't be a very balanced game to use 40K armies in 30K. Hopefully they'll do a crusade era list allowing for filthy xenos armies.

**Tannhauser42**

The balance will usually be in 40K's favor. The worst that a 30K army can do is nothing compared to the crazy stuff 40K can pull off.

**ImAGeek**

STC_LogisEngine wrote:

Exactly...

Oh haha

**gorgon**

Yeah, 2500 pts in 30K might be roughly equivalent to 2000 pts in 40K. If I was going to play 30K vs. 40K, I'd probably give the 30K side a 20 to 25 percent higher points limit. But 30K armies are capable of fielding some fairly nasty stuff too. It's complicated.

But beyond balance issues, I think 30K is just really about playing games in a Heresy setting with Heresy armies. That may seem like an obvious statement. And clearly people are free to do whatever the heck they want with 30K or 40K. But to me, "forging the narrative" is more important and intrinsic to playing 30K. That doesn't just mean fluff, but things like painting your legion appropriately and not in some generic scheme to serve as a counts-as of your choice.

To me (others may feel very differently), if what someone wants from his/her tabletop gaming is 'competitive' pickup games with nondescript marines vs. random xenos on some unnamed world...I'm not sure if 30K is what he/she is looking for.

**Breotan**

Why are people in this thread talking as though GW Studio's 30k rules will look anything like FW's 30k rules? What precedent can anyone cite for this?

**kronk**

Breotan wrote:
Why are people in this thread talking as though GW Studio's 30k rules will look anything like FW's 30k rules? What precedent can anyone cite for this?

What proof do you have that they won't be! I want proof, damn it!

About 87 Proof.

Spoiler:

**ImAGeek**

Breotan wrote:
Why are people in this thread talking as though GW Studio's 30k rules will look anything like FW's 30k rules? What precedent can anyone cite for this?

We've not seen anything to suggest they're touching the rules. We're going on the assumption that FW will keep doing the majority of the stuff for 30k.

**Kanluwen**

STC_LogisEngine wrote:

Exactly...

Which doesn't mean that he left because of "online backlash".

**Lockark**

ImAGeek wrote:
Lockark wrote:
The weapon options are odd. It looks like a meltagun, missile launcher, heavy bolted, and combi?

From a kit perspective disappointing considering the newest tactical squad box.

From a game play perspective is odd because in the current rules hh tac squads don't have access to ANY of those guns.

I hope these rules don't mess with fw's exellent rule set for age of darkness. My heart can't take another age of sigmar.

Veteran squads in 30k can take those weapons.

I actually would of rathered 10 ccw/pistol arms. Lol

**Fenrir Kitsune**

Kanluwen wrote:
STC_LogisEngine wrote:

Exactly...

Which doesn't mean that he left because of "online backlash".

Exactly.

**MrFlutterPie**

I'm in if they do Mk. II and III armours.

I've wanted to build a 8th Company Loyalist Death Guard for awhile

Plus a fluffy Death Guard army uses a lot of basic marines, terminators and dreads so I might be able to build a large chunk of it just using the new GW plastics.

**Abanshee**

LOL me too. They would go great with my Sons Of Horus. Of course, the wife will kill me....

lol dude Horus is laughing somewhere in the warp

**Prestor Jon**

Breotan wrote:
Why are people in this thread talking as though GW Studio's 30k rules will look anything like FW's 30k rules? What precedent can anyone cite for this?

Well, it's not definitive proof but:

shade1313 wrote:
Warhams-77 wrote:
Hastings on Warseer last night:

Re: Heresy plastics

Originally Posted by Scribe of Khorne
So tell me hastings, are we looking at an AoS type moment here, or is GW going to let FW keep steering the HH ship?

If AoS style rules reboots are incoming...in a few months? I'll likely lose my ****.

I don't know TBH, I'll share what I have heard, but this dates back a while as I pay very little interest to GW now.

I heard that 30k HH would be a boxed standalone game (like execution force was) and that the plastics contained within it would go on to form part of a larger 30k range and would be released some time later as individual box sets/clampacks, I was told that rules would be in those boxes, but that some boxes would contain rules for 30k AND 40k (and these boxes have BOTH logos on - yes there is a new 30k logo) so I assume it will be using a different ruleset to 40k (as there would be no point having rules for both systems in boxes if they were both the same). I was also told the plastic assassins would get clampack releases later and be released as part of the main 40k range..... as the box set is pretty much still quite widely available I don't expect this to be soon, although I never had a timeframe in the first case.

As for your AoS style rule reboot question - I remember being told to expect 40k codexes (codices?) to be a thing of the past within 2 years, and that the rules would be in the box for each model/unit, but there would still be a core ruleset which the in box rules would obviously add to. I've not bought any AoS releases (nor do I intend to) so I don't know if they have rules in the boxes (seems daft as when rules got FAQ'd (lol) or changed they'd need to repack ALL the boxes - seems even dafter that anything would actually bother with rules for AoS!!) or just online? I am going to leap to the conclusion that 40k probably WILL become more simplified like AoS, mainly because GW no longer see themselves as rules/games writers but just model sellers. How much more simplified I wouldn't hazard a guess at. Whatever they decide to do you can bet it's in the pipeline already, because myself and Harry were privately discussing the changes to WFB almost 3 years ago - I was told it was being canned and whilst we thought that was not the case and that AoS would be a continuation or refresh of it WFB HAS actually been canned and REPLACED by AoS, so these things are planned well ahead.

FW make huge sales from HH, there was no way that GW weren't going to want in on the action! I expect FW to still produce the big kits/characters/customising kits but GW will provide the bulk of the models needed to play 30k. We can only hope that GW let FW handle the 30k rules/books and they just make the models for it. But keep in mind I was told that when the 30k RANGE hits the stores (not the standalone box game but the actual range) it will take over the store space that used to be taken up by LotR/Hobbit, so GW may want to keep tight hold of the reigns even though they are no longer committed to producing games?

That's probably done very little to answer you, but it's the best I can manage and hopefully slightly informative if only a repost of what I wrote in January.

Originally Posted by lbecks

The character kit has two guys in it. ......

Indeed. Maybe those are the 2 characters from the starter/standalone box that might only be available in that box...... or something

*EDIT.

Having thought about this I think the unit/model rules for 30k & 40k will be online/WD rather than actually inside the box kits (I may have misinterpreted what my source said).

Also I should point out that as I understand it 40k and 30k will be very different games/rulesets, so it may be that 40k becomes like AoS and 30k is handled by FW (although this is just wishful thinking on the behalf of hobbyists the world over!).

Of course I may be completely wrong...... because that happens a lot

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?412055-Heresy-plastics&p=7506930&viewfull=1#post7506930

Good lord, if they AoS 40k, then that's a crapload of armies that will be joining my WFB stuff in storage for the long, long term.

**thenoobbomb**

Oh whoa. Definitely interested in this.

**Nvs**

I haven't been following AoS at all because I'm not a fan of the fantasy setting. But from what my friends who play it say, if the system actually had points and the rules were a little more serious in tone, the game would be great. Is this not the case?

Plus, if 40k is doing as well as rumors would lead us to believe, it seems silly to change something that works.

**Dawnbringer**

Nvs wrote:
I haven't been following AoS at all because I'm not a fan of the fantasy setting. But from what my friends who play it say, if the system actually had points and the rules were a little more serious in tone, the game would be great. Is this not the case?

And if my land rover did not have electrical gremlins and could do 100 miles to the gallon it would be great too.

**Yaraton**

You can afford a land rover??? All I have is a pushbike I made from some driftwood I fished out of the local creek, steel wire and the wheels I took off a shopping cart.

**Harriticus**

GW's 30k will never be able to match the diversity of products FW has come out with so I'm mostly unconcerned with this.

**Desubot**

Well il be glad if i can get my grunts out cheaper than buying units of 5 constantly.

Mk4s look nice.

**Dentry**

Harriticus wrote:
GW's 30k will never be able to match the diversity of products FW has come out with so I'm mostly unconcerned with this.

Right. But I always thought that was FW's niche. GW mass produces marines, FW makes Legion/Chapter specific stuff.

Edit: Standard disclaimer (which doesn't matter because it'll still be taken either way): FW = GW.

**Kid_Kyoto**

MrFlutterPie wrote:
I'm in if they do Mk. II and III armours.

I've wanted to build a 8th Company Loyalist Death Guard for awhile

Plus a fluffy Death Guard army uses a lot of basic marines, terminators and dreads so I might be able to build a large chunk of it just using the new GW plastics.

Kind of surprised they didn't do a mix of marks since marines have always mixed and matched from what was available.

**Warhams-77**

Hastings did not say 40k WILL be turned into an AoS-like rule-system...

Hastings - Warseer

Re: Age of Sigmar style books to 40k in 2 years acc. to Hastings..

The title of this thread doesn't really match up to what I've said. I have said I was told that Codexes (Codices? how the hell do you do the plural of Codex anyway???) would be gone within 2 years. That might mean the rules for each unit are included in the boxes/free on the net/wd etc. I do think that 40k rules will become more simplified, why? because GW don't want to focus on making games systems/rules anymore, they purely want to sell models. I do not doubt for one second that they (the main 40k rules) "COULD" become like AoS, but that is my personal opinion, and as I openly said that was me jumping to the conclusion based on how easily they destroyed their longest game world in favour of making more money. I think rather than being of any use at all this thread is purely scaremongering and misleading. The death of the codex doesn't mean the end of 40k, the death of the army book in WFB was because AoS had ALREADY killed WFB, and AoS had no place for army books.

Originally Posted by gwarsh41

It was rumored that fantasy would have a skirmish game alongside 9th edition. It was rumored that 9th edition would use round or square bases, and you could form your units in 3 distinct styles (rank, skirmish, and something else) each giving bonuses. There were a lot of rumors, but if you can find one 2 years old that points to AoS I will concede my point.

I could send you PMs over 3 years old discussing the demise of WFB would that suit? In fact if you care to look you WILL find discussions on the fantasy threads about the demise of army books and rolling them into smaller groups of armies (i.e. order, Destruction etc.) think they were by Harry though as well as myself.

Having known MANY people at GW for MANY years I can tell you without any shadow of doubt that things two years out are not unknown quantities to some members of GW. When I was right in the thick of the rumour mill some years back the occasional eagle eyed viewer might even have seen unreleased models in the background of pictures on my painting logs MANY MONTHS before they were released. I was sat happily reading the WoC army book 5 months before it was released, almost 6 months before for the O&G one, so please don't figure to assume that no one knows anything and they're just fishing, some people know a great deal, what they chose to share is entirely different.

Seriously GW don't do things on a whim, whatever is going to happen to 40k WILL already be well progressed, just no-one hears about it until the last minute.

Also not to be picky but my original post say WITHIN 2 years.

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?412025-Age-of-Sigmar-style-books-to-40k-in-2-years-acc-to-Hastings&p=7507130&viewfull=1#post7507130

**ImAGeek**

Kid_Kyoto wrote:
MrFlutterPie wrote:
I'm in if they do Mk. II and III armours.

I've wanted to build a 8th Company Loyalist Death Guard for awhile

Plus a fluffy Death Guard army uses a lot of basic marines, terminators and dreads so I might be able to build a large chunk of it just using the new GW plastics.

Kind of surprised they didn't do a mix of marks since marines have always mixed and matched from what was available.

Well, not really. In 30k the armours were a lot more mass produced and distributed so you'd have seen whole companies and chapters in the same armour. I imagine officers and veterans and such would have had more room for customisation but the majority of stuff in 30k was mass produced. When you get to big battles like Istvaan there'd have been more scavenging and mixing armour to replace broken parts and stuff. Doing a kit for each Mark is the best way because then people who just want to use one mark for their force can do that, and people who want mixed armour can still do that too.

**HairySticks**

kronk wrote:

What proof do you have that they won't be! I want proof, damn it!

About 87 Proof.

Spoiler:

like your style, although 87 is not enough proof! 100+ minimum for a good bourbon!

Heresy marines in plastic cant be bad, its not like people havent been wanting it.
Still though... (and yes I'm going to say it...) plastic 30k before sisters is just heresy!! (I'd happily buy either, or both though

)

**Chairman Aeon**

ImAGeek wrote:
We've not seen anything to suggest they're touching the rules. We're going on the assumption that FW will keep doing the majority of the stuff for 30k.

They're making plastics of Forge World's resin Marines. I'd say all bets are off.

I think 30K is where they will try AoS rules, at least if they were a sane company.* Why?

A) This is a limited release that can be dual-started for 30K and 40K. They did the work to transcribe Fantasy units to Age of Sigmar and so it wouldn't be too unlikely they would do Xenos back to 30K. This release will probably be Harlequin like and could still be offered or expanded depending on how the models are received. (Read: Sales)

B) GW desperately needs a new gateway game. Problem is 40K just refuses to conform to the idea that a $40 box is all you need to play. Modern 40K requires at least a platoon worth of figures and GW needs a game that hooks new players into "the hobby" with their first purchase. AoS seems to scale like LotR did.

C) Because they want to see if they can ditch Warhammer in favour of the AoS ruleset. If 30K is a success then they will have converted most of the other armies over to the new system only leaving the more "modern" Marine (and a couple of other) armies to be ported. If 30K peters out then they never did any damage to the core 40K brand or even Forge World's 30K rules.

Seriously, the only thing these days stopping me from playing 40K is the fact I have to buy an army from the force organization which at its smallest is still more than I wish to play. If GW's dream isn't to have some kid wander off the street, buy a box of Marines and with some help be playing in less than 30 minutes then they really are lost.

Iain.

**Gashrog**

Dentry wrote:
Harriticus wrote:
GW's 30k will never be able to match the diversity of products FW has come out with so I'm mostly unconcerned with this.

Right. But I always thought that was FW's niche. GW mass produces marines, FW makes Legion/Chapter specific stuff.

Edit: Standard disclaimer (which doesn't matter because it'll still be taken either way): FW = GW.

Not really no, if you check the webstore you'll see GW central still sells the chapter/legion specific upgrades from 3rd edition, they even updated them for finecrap. In 4th edition they did the Black Templar, Dark Angel & Ravenwing plastic upgrade sets, 5th edition they did the Blood Angel Death Company box (which like the Dark Angel Company Veteran box was intended to also be used as a general upgrade set), and now they've just released the big four chapters plastic shoulderpad sets.

Forge World's niche is whatever Tony Cotrell wants, so long as it's in resin.

**MrFlutterPie**

ImAGeek wrote:
Kid_Kyoto wrote:
MrFlutterPie wrote:
I'm in if they do Mk. II and III armours.

I've wanted to build a 8th Company Loyalist Death Guard for awhile

Plus a fluffy Death Guard army uses a lot of basic marines, terminators and dreads so I might be able to build a large chunk of it just using the new GW plastics.

Kind of surprised they didn't do a mix of marks since marines have always mixed and matched from what was available.

Well, not really. In 30k the armours were a lot more mass produced and distributed so you'd have seen whole companies and chapters in the same armour. I imagine officers and veterans and such would have had more room for customisation but the majority of stuff in 30k was mass produced. When you get to big battles like Istvaan there'd have been more scavenging and mixing armour to replace broken parts and stuff. Doing a kit for each Mark is the best way because then people who just want to use one mark for their force can do that, and people who want mixed armour can still do that too.

This.

I would be annoyed if I had to buy a couple of boxes just to get a single 10 man squad in the armour type I wanted. When the rumours first started floating around there was some talk about the boxes being mixed which I hoped were false.