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I just cant take Marine/Chaos bikes seriously. Superhuman soldiers in pretty much tank armor on motorcycles? Uhhh? Don't don't get me started on how impractical they would be. However, Orks kinda make sense, being the impractical beings they are. Eldar jet bikes seem more believable to me too. If I ever start an Astartes army, I could never bring myself to buy bikers, just out of principle.

I'm not the only one that feels this way, right?

I disagree. I think Space Marine bikes are deliciously goofy.

The fact that my Grey Knights can't take bikes has been a sore spot for me since I got into the game...

I think they're fine, I mean they're probably a lot larger and sturdier than a normal motorcycle, to the point that they're probably almost a personal mini-tank.

So yea, if you view it as a normal bike then it's silly, but if you look at it based on the size it is, it makes perfect sense as it's just more tank armour that gives speed.

Orks on bikes are Cool and makes sense for a low tech army. By extension Chaos Marines on bikes is wicked sick Sons of Anarchy on to the High Way to Hell!

Loyalist Marines on bikes. ..why? A high tech army using attack bikes? I expected cheap dune bugies with roll cage exposing the marines. 1 driver, 1 pasenger gunner with an assault gun and 1 on the back shooting a big gun.

Eldar jetbikes make perfect sense since its all terrain high speed transport for a weak alien. Freaking Jet Moto on the ps1!

I think bikes or Jetbikes being used in combat is silly indeed.

Horses to me are fine for the backward worlds but everything else is just silly and realistically would be gunned down as they present huge targets.

If they acted as mini transports in game that would be better, but have heaps of bonuses to hitting mounted units so it adds incentives to quickly dismount before your unit dies.

Thunderwolf Cavalry are more interesting than SM bikers. And that's sad.

Yack Maniels wrote:I just cant take Marine/Chaos bikes seriously. Superhuman soldiers in pretty much tank armor on motorcycles? Uhhh? Don't don't get me started on how impractical they would be. However, Orks kinda make sense, being the impractical beings they are. Eldar jet bikes seem more believable to me too. If I ever start an Astartes army, I could never bring myself to buy bikers, just out of principle.

I'm not the only one that feels this way, right?

It sorta goes with the knightly theme, though: armored warriors on horseback. The bikes are overbuilt and chunky, so I don' t see a physical reason why it couldn't work. It'd be different if they were riding Harleys with ape-hangers and raked front forks, a la Easy Rider.

Rihgu wrote:The fact that my Grey Knights can't take bikes has been a sore spot for me since I got into the game...

[sarcasm]
Yeah, with grav guns. And they should have thunderfire cannons, Vindicators, and Centurions, too...
[/sarcasm]

One of the ways that you can keep guys in power armor distinct is by NOT giving them access to all the same gear. Besides, not that GW cares about its own fluff, but Grey Knights don't ride bikes. If they need to get somewhere fast, they teleport.

I like them. I mean, if we're first taking the leap of the faith that the Stormfang can fly, I can manage this working.

I'll play devil's advocate... Bikes seem like a good choice for a fast, flexible, and durable SM strike force or hunter-killer operation, especially when pods may not be a good option such as for urban/hive combat. IIRC, in the fluff the SM bike is built like a mini-tank and can take a SM through a rockcrete wall of a building no problem!

A light-weight dune buggy-like vehicle already exisits: the Land Speeder.

They are thematically appropriate. Space Marines are a science fiction version of a medeival heraldric knight, and they just wouldn't be complete without some type of cavalry unit.

Are bikes impractical? Certainly. So are Space Marines, however. (And if you want scientific realism, then 40k left you behind a long long time ago.) But Space Marines aren't intended to be practical. They are a living weapon, whose strength lies not in streamlined killing efficiency (that's the Assassinorum) but in fear and awe. And a thundering, mounted charge is certainly going to bring that in spades.

Space Wolves, of course, take it to an even more ridiculous level.

All bikes except Ork and Scout bikes bother me, mostly because they are used in melee combat which makes no sense. Seriously, you do not engage in melee combat from the back of a motorcycle, it isnt a horse. A horse has its own sense of balance, the bike is getting it all from you, so when your weapon makes contact wit the enemy you may kill him but you will most likely wipe out after.

Scout bikes are fine because they are being used in a support role, ie deliver the Deep Strike beacon or as a weapon platform, in this regard the Marine Attack Bike (which i usually think looks silly) is also believable as its a Trike with a big gun.

Ork Bikes work because they're Orks and thats really all that needs to be said.

As for Jetbikes, again if used primarily for shooting? Fine. Melee combat? Your dumb. The Dark Eldar however have built their bikes to have Mono-Blades on them so they just do chariot drive-bys which is far more believable.

I'd love to see someone covert up a bunch of pushbikes with marines on them.
I can imagine them pedaling away furiously to get where they're going, maybe even bmx's for the super lols.

 mekugi wrote:
I'd love to see someone covert up a bunch of pushbikes with marines on them.
I can imagine them pedaling away furiously to get where they're going, maybe even bmx's for the super lols.

Hahaha i would love to see that.

 mekugi wrote:
I'd love to see someone covert up a bunch of pushbikes with marines on them.
I can imagine them pedaling away furiously to get where they're going, maybe even bmx's for the super lols.

Even better would be a bigwheel. White Scars rolling up looking like a gang of armored superhuman 5 year olds.

Honestly I found the idea goofy at first but then it started growing on me, long story but it's actually part of the reason I went to the Dark Angels as my army choice!
Definitely still goofy but I'd personally say they make them just plausible enough for willing suspension of disbelief, which is all one can ask of something so OTT as 40k.
However I will also say that Thunderwolf Cavalry and Rough Riders cross the line into straight-up stupidity. Biker Marines are one thing, riding an animal in the far future is quite another.

And regarding the recent tangent:

 CrashGordon94 wrote:
Honestly I found the idea goofy at first but then it started growing on me, long story but it's actually part of the reason I went to the Dark Angels as my army choice!
Definitely still goofy but I'd personally say they make them just plausible enough for willing suspension of disbelief, which is all one can ask of something so OTT as 40k.
However I will also say that Thunderwolf Cavalry and Rough Riders cross the line into straight-up stupidity. Biker Marines are one thing, riding an animal in the far future is quite another.

And regarding the recent tangent:

Spoiler:

Thread won here. Good try everyone, safe trip home.

Bikes are ok outside of combat. Need to move quickly across terrain? Use bikes to get there, like modern-day special forces do with dirt bikes and ATVs. In a battle, a motorcycle with machine guns strapped on is silly. And Thunderwolf Cavalry? Talk about one of the stupidest ideas I've ever heard of made into a model.

 mekugi wrote:
I'd love to see someone covert up a bunch of pushbikes with marines on them.
I can imagine them pedaling away furiously to get where they're going, maybe even bmx's for the super lols.

"This is my chapter, they take all the weapons and wargear other chapters won't use. These bikes? They're fixies. My chapter master has a sweet beard and glasses, but he only likes to send his marines where other chapters won't go. Otherwise, he just answers distress calls with an apathetic 'whatever' and returns to mending his vintage armor."

 Yack Maniels wrote:
I just cant take Marine/Chaos bikes seriously. Superhuman soldiers in pretty much tank armor on motorcycles? Uhhh? Don't don't get me started on how impractical they would be. However, Orks kinda make sense, being the impractical beings they are. Eldar jet bikes seem more believable to me too. If I ever start an Astartes army, I could never bring myself to buy bikers, just out of principle.

I'm not the only one that feels this way, right?

From any sort of realistic perspective, a whole lot of 40k units are absurd. Bikes are very definitely chief amongst them.

40k basically treats riding a bike like Fantasy treats being on an armored warhorse, they're basically treated like Cavalry, only better.

Yes, they're incredibly ridiculous, bikes would be about the worst thing you'd ever want to be stuck on in CC, they'd never be able to hit anything the way the guns are mounted (much less be the twin-linked mega-accurate platforms they are), and they'd probably be even more vulnerable due to their size and vulerability of wheels than normal infantry would. But, again, 40k basically wants to pretend their mounted Cavalry.

I learned about 40k though the original Dawn of War games and I remember being disappointed when I discovered Space Marine bikes. However, the idea's grown on me over the years. Obviously they're analogous to mounted knights, but a different concept caught my mind: one that 40k fails to capitalize on.

Space Marine aren't riding bikes, they're driving personal battle tanks. They're a third the size of a Rhino and just as armored. The problem is that the game doesn't elevate them from being basically just infantry.

I don't think the idea of using bikes as melee cavalry is too impractical, but the rules act like the bikes come to a stop. They're fast and agile and heavy. The bikes should just run over people and continue on their merry way.

And then there's the armament. If the melee rules were better, it might not matter. Their bolters can only hit things they're already going to run over. There's another layer of redundancy in that their guns only kill stuff they can already just run over. They're basically tanks anyway, so give them a snub-nosed autocannon/missile launcher. Or go the full knight route and give them lances like the Eldar. And for Emperor's sake, do not mount it fixed to the forward position!

In conclusion, I want Space Marine bikes to be single-man tanks that run people over.

They are ridiculous as melee in future.

 DarkHound wrote:
I learned about 40k though the original Dawn of War games and I remember being disappointed when I discovered Space Marine bikes. However, the idea's grown on me over the years. Obviously they're analogous to mounted knights, but a different concept caught my mind: one that 40k fails to capitalize on.

Space Marine aren't riding bikes, they're driving personal battle tanks. They're a third the size of a Rhino and just as armored. The problem is that the game doesn't elevate them from being basically just infantry.

I don't think the idea of using bikes as melee cavalry is too impractical, but the rules act like the bikes come to a stop. They're fast and agile and heavy. The bikes should just run over people and continue on their merry way.

And then there's the armament. If the melee rules were better, it might not matter. Their bolters can only hit things they're already going to run over. There's another layer of redundancy in that their guns only kill stuff they can already just run over. They're basically tanks anyway, so give them a snub-nosed autocannon/missile launcher. Or go the full knight route and give them lances like the Eldar. And for Emperor's sake, do not mount it fixed to the forward position!

In conclusion, I want Space Marine bikes to be single-man tanks that run people over.

I would use bikes if they were like this.

 Crabbit wrote:
A light-weight dune buggy-like vehicle already exisits: the Land Speeder.

And imperial guards have Tauros, I like look of tauros more than attack bike.



Personal attack aircrafts and jet packs would be better than bikes in future.

 Draco wrote:
Personal attack aircrafts and jet packs would be better than bikes in future.

I dunno, flying things can't be as heavily armed or armored because of gravity. Frankly, Assault Marines are in the same boat as Bikes and normal Terminators. The concept has potential, but the rules go out of their way to make their fantasy impossible.

Anyway, I'm a powerful wizard so feast your eyes.

Space Marine Armoured Cavalry, 35 pts per model
Same stats, same wargear except no TL-bolter
Any model may take a snub-nosed autocannon (18" S7 AP4 Heavy 2) or a cavalry lance (power weapon, +2 strength and initiative on the charge)
Special Rule: Hit and Run.
Sergeant is +15 points, with the usual assortment of close combat options.

 DarkHound wrote:

 Draco wrote:
Personal attack aircrafts and jet packs would be better than bikes in future.

I dunno, flying things can't be as heavily armed or armored because of gravity. Frankly, Assault Marines are in the same boat as Bikes and normal Terminators. The concept has potential, but the rules go out of their way to make their fantasy impossible.

Anyway, I'm a powerful wizard so feast your eyes.

Space Marine Armoured Cavalry, 35 pts per model
Same stats, same wargear except no TL-bolter
Any model may take a snub-nosed autocannon (18" S7 AP4 Heavy 2) or a cavalry lance (power weapon, +2 strength and initiative on the charge)
Special Rule: Hit and Run.
Sergeant is +15 points, with the usual assortment of close combat options.

Something like Ravenwing Black Knights? They are almost like those but no power weapons and they have plasma talon.

Edit: white scar's command squad with bikes?

The problem with the Black Knights is they're just bloated, and really that's the problem with the game in general. Any unit in the game needs to have a fantasy it exists to fulfill, and it should have the tools to fulfill it. I either want them to be significantly powerful on the charge and have Hit and Run (to fulfill the mounted knight fantasy), or they need to have big guns and behave like tanks.

Games Workshop has gone around declawing most of the older units so they can no longer satisfying fulfill their power fantasy (particularly Terminators of all shapes and sizes). I don't even think this is intentional, it's just general bloat. Obviously they know those needs still exist because they keep producing redundant units like the Centurions and Riptides.

EDIT: I think the White Scars Command Squad is an excellent example of doing it right. They're great on the charge and can retreat instead of getting bogged down. But I think bike squads in general need to have those tools.

I'm totally with OP.
I can't stand Space Marine on bikes. It's just not to my taste.
Therefore, I don't have a single bike in my army.

CrashGordon94 wrote:Honestly I found the idea goofy at first but then it started growing on me, long story but it's actually part of the reason I went to the Dark Angels as my army choice!
Definitely still goofy but I'd personally say they make them just plausible enough for willing suspension of disbelief, which is all one can ask of something so OTT as 40k.
However I will also say that Thunderwolf Cavalry and Rough Riders cross the line into straight-up stupidity. Biker Marines are one thing, riding an animal in the far future is quite another.

And regarding the recent tangent:

Spoiler:

This is great.

Flanker wrote:Bikes are ok outside of combat. Need to move quickly across terrain? Use bikes to get there, like modern-day special forces do with dirt bikes and ATVs. In a battle, a motorcycle with machine guns strapped on is silly. And Thunderwolf Cavalry? Talk about one of the stupidest ideas I've ever heard of made into a model.

 mekugi wrote:
I'd love to see someone covert up a bunch of pushbikes with marines on them.
I can imagine them pedaling away furiously to get where they're going, maybe even bmx's for the super lols.

"This is my chapter, they take all the weapons and wargear other chapters won't use. These bikes? They're fixies. My chapter master has a sweet beard and glasses, but he only likes to send his marines where other chapters won't go. Otherwise, he just answers distress calls with an apathetic 'whatever' and returns to mending his vintage armor."

I just lol'd at the thought of a chapter of hipster space marines.

DarkHound wrote:

 Draco wrote:
Personal attack aircrafts and jet packs would be better than bikes in future.

I dunno, flying things can't be as heavily armed or armored because of gravity. Frankly, Assault Marines are in the same boat as Bikes and normal Terminators. The concept has potential, but the rules go out of their way to make their fantasy impossible.

Anyway, I'm a powerful wizard so feast your eyes.

Space Marine Armoured Cavalry, 35 pts per model
Same stats, same wargear except no TL-bolter
Any model may take a snub-nosed autocannon (18" S7 AP4 Heavy 2) or a cavalry lance (power weapon, +2 strength and initiative on the charge)
Special Rule: Hit and Run.
Sergeant is +15 points, with the usual assortment of close combat options.

Duuuude now there's an idea. Maybe make the bikes look a little more armored up but still somewhat streamlined, and give them an over-the-shoulder weapon with some kind of tracking system and a way for the weapon to pivot and what not, so it's just not just limited to what's at your 12 o' clock. At lest then they'd seem a LITTLE BIT more practical. Although, in all honesty I still probably wouldn't use them.

feth your bikes. Real men ride Segways into battle.

I think some of you are taking the knight on horseback thing too literally. A Space Marine on a bike doesn't need to have a lance or swing a sword to kill his enemy, both of which take supreme skill and balance. The bike and rider probably weigh nearly a ton, and they have no fear (see what I did there) of personal injury due to having power armor. Velocity and mass are the weapons. Drive by your target, stick a pauldron out or cant a leg to expose the kneepad. A hit to the torso or head kills from blunt force trauma. A hit to an extremity either tears it off or renders it useless by pulverising internal structures.

Modern riders don't have physics on their side and they don't have the same level of rider protection. They can easily kill at speed, but the bike is critically damaged and the rider dismounted and injured.