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Trying to work out a relatively versatile 1500 point campaign list. Illic is the nemesis of one of my opponents, so have to take him. Potential opponents include Dark Eldar, Khorne Daemonkin, Tyranids, Space Marines and Imperial Guard.

HQ
- Farseer w/bike, singing spear, spirit stone of anath'lan
- Illic Nightspear

Troops
- 3x Jetbikes w/Shuricannons
- 3x Jetbikes w/Shuricannons
- 3x Jetbikes w/Shuricats
- Rangers

Elites
- Wraithguard w/D-scythes in WS w/SL and SC
- Wraithguard w/D-scythes in WS w/SL and SC

Fast attack
- Crimson hunter
- Crimson hunter

That's so cheesy I actually tasted Gorgonzola reading that.

Except for Illic. He's a tad expensive, considering that rangers are no longer the best snipers in the game. I'd recommend a Jetbike Autarch instead. Take no infantry, go full Siam-Hann and you'll be in serious business.

 TheManWithNoPlan wrote:
That's so cheesy I actually tasted Gorgonzola reading that.

Not every bike is a Scatbike, so I don't think you have really been to Wisconson.

 TheManWithNoPlan wrote:
Except for Illic. He's a tad expensive, considering that rangers are no longer the best snipers in the game. I'd recommend a Jetbike Autarch instead. Take no infantry, go full Siam-Hann and you'll be in serious business.

Check the Original Post again, as he *has* to take Illic for a campaign requirement.

So it's an okay list? I think cheesy is okay with my group. I keep losing, so it's not like it's helping me, haha.

I don't think shuricannons on jetbikes are worth it, you may want to take scatter lasers (+12") or naked (cheap objectives).

Other than that, dropping your farseer and your rangers would pay for "Crimson Death".

Wave Serpents (imo) are better off with 2 Shuriken Canons, it's cheaper and all weapons remain within 24" range.

This kist isnt at all cheesy. Its a for fun kind of list. It is a million miles from maxed out. None of the jetbikes are armed with Scatter Lasers, making them somewhat sup optimal. Obviously Illic in a unit of Rangers is a massive point sink that wont often do that much in a game. So I wouldn't worry about that at all. You will struggle against infantry with this. You have a lot of elite shooting, but not too much weight of fire power I would say.

Also, your only anti-tank is the d-flamers and the flyers. The bikes with cannons can poke transports, but if you see a land raider you're in trouble. That'd be the flamer's target #1.

I like it. I'd say lose a unit of the wraithguard and take more bikes or tanks. Fire prisms are good man, that large blast is still good vs infantry. You can get a TON of stuff for the 350 points that guard units costs.

He has 2 crimson hunters for "Tank" hunting. Along with the 2 units of WG. I would actually feel bad for the land raider.

I'd agree take the crimson death. And take at least one unit of scatbikes. Noone will blame you for one lousy unit of em. You could ignore the rangers, and infiltrate some fire dragons close to the enemy(you can't get them within 12 but you can still get em close somewhere in cover, and laugh as your opponent can't kill your 2+cover/3+ armor fire dragons, and then you can MTC out of the cover, and run in for some tank-killing hilarity.

Or you could stick some dark reapers in his backfield somewhere for more of the same. Hell, infiltrate a unit of wraithguard with him, they'll be even tougher to dig out of cover and when they come out, anything near them is dead. They don't have battle focus though so it'll be more difficult than getting fire dragons into melta range. Just saying make use of the infiltrate HQ if you can. Infiltrate is deadly on many units in the eldar 'dex. Rangers are kinda sub-par since they nerfed sniper in 7th, and you won't be using his special ability to get them in super close anyways since rangers and illic are both abysmal in melee.

5 DReapers with starshot is only 45 pts more than the rangers and will definitely give you a return, while the rangers will be kinda meh. Getting DReapers to shoot into a tank's butt with 5 str8 shots is fantastic. An exarch is usually worth it for the BS increase, and fast shot. (He costs 48 pts with starshot, well under what 2 reapers cost, with the same wounds, atks, and only one less starswarm shot, plus he has boosed Init for what it's worth. Auto-passing blind can be nice in case illic gets killed)

Overall I might recommend dropping a wraith unit(or dropping the WS and infiltrating them with illic) dropping the rangers, and getting something more useful for him to infiltrate with. And try to find some points for crimson death cuz that formation is freakin deadly.

How do you infiltrate Fragons or Wraithguard?

You know that characters with infiltrate can't join units without right? Since the FAQ in I think January? Not to mention that it didn't work even before that due to a timing issue.

As for the list you basically double the survivability of each Crimson Hunter by taking the Crimson Death once you have 2 Hunters you're already invested enough to mean you really should go for the formation. As others have said swap the cannons over to lasers on the bikes too.

Ignore my post then I was under the impression HQs with infiltrate still worked. Stupid GW.

They have never worked so I don't get your point about still worked?

Back in the 6th days my buds and I never payed attention to the FAQ much I still don't. GW is terrible for making changes like that and forgetting to put things in the BRB. There were many a game with shadowsun infiltrating riptides/XV8s. Let's not focus on that though.

You could still join up Illic with Dark reapers normally for shrouded, making them pretty darn resilient against anything without ignores cover AP3. Rangers might be better still just for the bonuses he gives them specifically, but if most of the unit dies, it's a good backup to have him be able to pop over and give someone shrouded.

Even in sixth ed it didn't work due to a timing issue. Shadowsun could never infiltrate a Riptide in any edition.

Reapers aren't worth the points. He's better off trying to find points for the Crimson Death.

True enough I would put points into crimson death first for sure. First thing I said in my first post. I just find rangers to be kind of meh finding another use for his IC is a good idea.

So. Trying to fit Crimson Death, this is what I've come up with:

HQ
- Farseer Skyrunner, stone, singing spear
- Illic Nightspear (will join a unit of WG to keep him safe)

Troops
- 3x Jetbikes w/Shuricannons (not scatter for the sake of fun over WAAC)
- 3x Jetbikes w/Shuricannons
- 3x Jetbikes w/Shuricannons

Elites
- Wraithguard w/D-scythes in a WS w/SL and SC
- Wraithguard w/D-scythes

Crimson Death Formation
- Exarch w/Starcannons

Looks good all considered.

A fine list but personal caveat - why not take a Farseer with an Uldanorathei (sp?) Long Rifle. Adds some charges while looking alarmingly like Illic.

hmmm interesting. Wraithguard footslogging, but with shrouded... A good use of him I'd say. You have a 5+ against anything short of AP3 ignores cover. Kinda lame that he can't fire his rifle properly on the move since it's heavy. Maybe wraithcannons instead of d-scythes so they can get into range easier since they're kinda slow? Just something to think about. 4" doesn't seem like much but I've been screwed by less than that in a couple games.

Cieged it's a caompaign requirement apparently. Speaking of could you choose a different special IC? There are certainly better options if your buddies are flexible.