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Do these two lists look to be reasonably balanced against each other? I’m trying to make a pair of 1,500 point lists out of my collection for a game, and want it to be reasonable, while also showcasing some of the new formations. A friend is swinging through town, hasn’t picked up the new SM codex yet, so I want to make a fun pair of lists to face off against each other. They don’t need to be competitive per-sae, just a reasonably fun battle. While everything is painted blue, Chapter Tactics are flexible. Whichever one I’m using will obviously be Ultramarines, but the drop list could play as Imp. Fists, and the mech list would work as a White Scars list.

1st list: Mechanized Strikeforce


List #2, Gladius/10th


Or for the more visual among you:
This--

vs. this--

I can't speak for perfect balance, but given the choices above, I would always prefer the top force. I don't think the 2nd list has many effective ways of dealing with the LR or termies.

The bikes and predator will likely roll over the on table options for the 2nd list. I'd be worried about being tabled before my DPs came down on my turn if I went second with list #2.

I don't know how skilled a player your friend is, but I think the top list is much more forgiving. A few easy mistakes with the bottom list and it's toast.

That said, I don't often play with tact squads in DPs. I tend to favour bike-heavy lists. I look at the units in list one and they're all units I would run, but I see a lot in List # 2 that are just plain bad. Namely, the scout bikes and Dreadnought.

I do agree that the mech/vet list has more going on on the table. The question is weather the drop pods are going to counter that?

I could replace one of the bike squads with a 5 man tac squad in a razor. It would keep the theme, but soften the list a little.

I like the first list as well

 Nevelon wrote:
I do agree that the mech/vet list has more going on on the table. The question is weather the drop pods are going to counter that?

I don't think so, no. If I'm playing list #1, I'm rushing my bikes up and keeping the rest of my army close behind. I've seen too many tac squads/ Sternguards get roasted after coming down in drop pods to worry too much about them. List #1 has so many options to quickly deal with a drop pod or two.

The bikes, the termies, the VV can all rush right over to support an engaged unit and most would do some serious damage to a tactical squad.

The only thing I'm really afraid of is the Devastator squad, and I can get to it so fast, I doubt it will be a real problem.

List #1 is all on the table, and List #2 is divided which will allow it to be picked off piece by piece while never really presenting much of a threat.

I could be really wrong here, but I think these armies can be re-arranged. To make each one more balanced, you need to actually make them more balanced and get away from the themes (Mech v. Droppod)

I don't think the second list packs the punch necessary to deal with really resilient targets like the LR and bike squads.

Perhaps you could switch the lists around a bit so that the Terminators and LR are with the drop pod marines and the bikes and scouts are together in the other list?

devinple wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:
I do agree that the mech/vet list has more going on on the table. The question is weather the drop pods are going to counter that?

I don't think so, no. If I'm playing list #1, I'm rushing my bikes up and keeping the rest of my army close behind. I've seen too many tac squads/ Sternguards get roasted after coming down in drop pods to worry too much about them. List #1 has so many options to quickly deal with a drop pod or two.

The bikes, the termies, the VV can all rush right over to support an engaged unit and most would do some serious damage to a tactical squad.

The only thing I'm really afraid of is the Devastator squad, and I can get to it so fast, I doubt it will be a real problem.

List #1 is all on the table, and List #2 is divided which will allow it to be picked off piece by piece while never really presenting much of a threat.

I could be really wrong here, but I think these armies can be re-arranged. To make each one more balanced, you need to actually make them more balanced and get away from the themes (Mech v. Droppod)

xTHExCLINCHERx wrote:I don't think the second list packs the punch necessary to deal with really resilient targets like the LR and bike squads.

Perhaps you could switch the lists around a bit so that the Terminators and LR are with the drop pod marines and the bikes and scouts are together in the other list?

One of the problems with shuffling things around is that I want to showcase formations. The ones I have the minis for are the demi-comapny, 1st and 10th. (plus the librarian conclave and reclusiam command squad, but those don’t fit as well) But I don’t want to do a pure mirror match, as those tend to be boring. Then again, asymmetrical lists are a lot harder to balance (hence this thread).

The drop pod list is a full gladius formation. I don’t generally like 5 man tac squads, so putting the company together is already over 1,000 points. Given the fact that I’m trying to keep the point totals relatively small, so we don’t time out, it gets bundled with the scouts.

The other list gets to showcase the last of the formations I can field, the 1st co. I guess I could have used tacs in rhinos, rather then bikes, but wanted to mix things up.

Another idea to soften the vet list a little would be to replace the assault terminators with tactical ones DSing in. The LR could be replaced with a tac squad in a rhino and add another LS.

The other fact is I’m trying to build lists that play like my friends armies, which are White Scars and Imperial Fists. Some of the unit/wargear choices echo models from his collection. Others are just what I have WYSWYG on the shelf. This is why there are a lot of bolter boys in drop pods, and my bikes. At the end of the day, I’ll pay the price for unbalanced lists. I built them, so he’s going to get to choose which one to play. He’s canny enough to pick the stronger list.

Gotta agree 100% with what devin has said Nev. focus the devs down and list 2 is really lacking at that point.

Softening the first list as you suggest would help a bit.

You can take a bike squad to satisfy the fast attack requirement in the gladius which would strengthen that list.

Switch out the assault squad in list #2 with one of the bike squads from list #1. Then satify your 2nd troop requirement in list #1 with a small tact squad.

That would help balance them a bit.

Although there was a lot of useful advice here, we decided just to run the lists as-is. We both agreed with you that the first list was the better of them, but my opponent chose the second anyway. I do appreciate all the advice, and will file it away for next time I’m building paired lists.

If you are interested in seeing how it played out, I wrote up a battle report.