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Made in ca
Dakka Veteran





Year after year you run into people that go to tournaments with non competitive army's and then bomb the players that beat them.. Why did you come to the event.?? What were you hoping to accomplish.? I'm sure many of you have seen this, what are your views on non competitive players going to events but then bash it about how OP players were and also bombing there soft scores.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Manhattan

You must be TFG. Do you glout and
How about NOT bypassing the language filter through intentional misspellings? --Janthkin
all over them after you stomped them with your free vehicles battle company or duel-wraithknight army?

GG

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/09/02 20:04:23


 
   
Made in gb
Worthiest of Warlock Engineers






preston

Oh look, a metagaming TFG whining about players wanting to have fun. Surprise surprise.

Free from GW's tyranny and the hobby is looking better for it
DR:90-S++G+++M++B++I+Pww205++D++A+++/sWD146R++T(T)D+
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




To play games?

Tournaments started (and for many people remain) an event (i) to play outside their regular group of opponents, (ii) play several games in a single day, (iii) get some games in after a long time of not playing, (iv) see lots of different and cool armies, (v) meet new/different hobbyists.

Tournaments are a celebration of everything the hobby is about (unless they are spoiled by the WAAC/competitive 'tards)

GW isn't made for competitive gaming. If you try to square that circle, the only competition you're winning is the one for the lowest IQ in the room.



This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/09/02 16:41:43


 
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





I can't see how this thread will end well, but my £0.02...

You can't ban uncompetitive players. They may have come for their enjoyment, to have a good time. And you want to stop that? Just don't be a dick during play, let them understand why they aren't winning. In time, they'll be well aware of the fact that they are outclassed. It's their loss, not yours. In the meantime, just be happy with the fact you got an easy win with your hypothetical cheese-of-the-week list.


They/them

 
   
Made in ca
Dakka Veteran





DorianGray wrote:
You must be TFG. Do you glout and shiiit all over them after you stomped them with your free vehicles battle company or duel-wraithknight army?

GG
nope, that would be grounds to be bombed in sports. But I've seen people get bombed on painting and and get zeros across the board just because they tabled there opponent.
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






Dude this is a dice game...Any army can win. Any army can create miss matches. The problem is TO that make games that give you such a huge lead in points for obliterating your opponent. Victory conditions should be simple and be fair for any army to achieve.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in ca
Dakka Veteran





 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
I can't see how this thread will end well, but my £0.02...

You can't ban uncompetitive players. They may have come for their enjoyment, to have a good time. And you want to stop that? Just don't be a dick during play, let them understand why they aren't winning. In time, they'll be well aware of the fact that they are outclassed. It's their loss, not yours. In the meantime, just be happy with the fact you got an easy win with your hypothetical cheese-of-the-week list.


That's the issue, there are some that are nice guys and understand that there army didn't stack up, but then there's the guys that make it there goal that if they don't win then they will bomb you and pretty much kill your chance at overall. I've seen a lot of guys put on a smile the whole game a be really friendly and then turn there score sheet in and there's zeros everywhere.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Xenomancers wrote:
Dude this is a dice game...Any army can win. Any army can create miss matches. The problem is TO that make games that give you such a huge lead in points for obliterating your opponent. Victory conditions should be simple and be fair for any army to achieve.
I agree on that point. But I feel like to many of your points are left in the hands of the other player and some people let emotions control them when there scoring

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/02 16:46:04


 
   
Made in ca
Journeyman Inquisitor with Visions of the Warp




Dman, it's not exactly news that there is lots of codex imbalance in 40k. Either they are going to the wrong events, or you are.

If you're unhappy maybe take it up with a TO or organize your own events. Online whining to people who have absolutely no idea of the context is pointless.
   
Made in ca
Dakka Veteran





Wonderwolf wrote:
To play games?

Tournaments started (and for many people remain) an event (i) to play outside their regular group of opponents, (ii) play several games in a single day, (iii) get some games in after a long time of not playing, (iv) see lots of different and cool armies, (v) meet new/different hobbyists.

Tournaments are a celebration of everything the hobby is about (unless they are spoiled by the WAAC/competitive 'tards)

GW isn't made for competitive gaming. If you try to square that circle, the only competition you're winning is the one for the lowest IQ in the room.





It's a competition lmao if they wanted it to be fun and make friends then why even have a winner.? Any time there's winners and losers it's a event, and competitive. Gts were made to have the best players face off. That's why we use to have GT and Golden daemon.
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




Dman137 wrote:
Wonderwolf wrote:
To play games?

Tournaments started (and for many people remain) an event (i) to play outside their regular group of opponents, (ii) play several games in a single day, (iii) get some games in after a long time of not playing, (iv) see lots of different and cool armies, (v) meet new/different hobbyists.

Tournaments are a celebration of everything the hobby is about (unless they are spoiled by the WAAC/competitive 'tards)

GW isn't made for competitive gaming. If you try to square that circle, the only competition you're winning is the one for the lowest IQ in the room.





It's a competition lmao if they wanted it to be fun and make friends then why even have a winner.? Any time there's winners and losers it's a event, and competitive. Gts were made to have the best players face off. That's why we use to have GT and Golden daemon.

Being a competition does not mean there can be no fun. If there's no entertainment then the entire game is pointless.

tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam  
   
Made in ca
Executing Exarch






Wonderwolf wrote:
To play games?

Tournaments started (and for many people remain) an event (i) to play outside their regular group of opponents, (ii) play several games in a single day, (iii) get some games in after a long time of not playing, (iv) see lots of different and cool armies, (v) meet new/different hobbyists.

Tournaments are a celebration of everything the hobby is about (unless they are spoiled by the WAAC/competitive 'tards)

GW isn't made for competitive gaming. If you try to square that circle, the only competition you're winning is the one for the lowest IQ in the room.





Yeah but what the OP is saying is that if you go to a tournament and get curb stomped why would you bomb his soft scores? Last event I went to it was rampant where people that had no chance or interest in winning were bombing scores after they lost.

Ive been in this hobby for nearly a lifetime and the scene is basically the same as its always been, 75% of tournament goers are goobs just playing with the sand on the side of the road whereas the other 15% are trying to win and the last 10% that actually have a shot at winning overall or general. IMO its only in last few years where people have really started to get overly opinionated and sour, the game is changing but people are adapting less, either that or the only people that are sticking around are the used abused and the bitter while the rest jumped off the sinking ship.



Rick Priestley said it best:
Bryan always said that if the studio ever had to mix with the manufacturing and sales part of the business it would destroy the studio. And I have to say – he wasn’t wrong there! The modern studio isn’t a studio in the same way; it isn’t a collection of artists and creatives sharing ideas and driving each other on. It’s become the promotions department of a toy company – things move on!
 
   
Made in ca
Dakka Veteran





pm713 wrote:
Dman137 wrote:
Wonderwolf wrote:
To play games?

Tournaments started (and for many people remain) an event (i) to play outside their regular group of opponents, (ii) play several games in a single day, (iii) get some games in after a long time of not playing, (iv) see lots of different and cool armies, (v) meet new/different hobbyists.

Tournaments are a celebration of everything the hobby is about (unless they are spoiled by the WAAC/competitive 'tards)

GW isn't made for competitive gaming. If you try to square that circle, the only competition you're winning is the one for the lowest IQ in the room.





It's a competition lmao if they wanted it to be fun and make friends then why even have a winner.? Any time there's winners and losers it's a event, and competitive. Gts were made to have the best players face off. That's why we use to have GT and Golden daemon.

Being a competition does not mean there can be no fun. If there's no entertainment then the entire game is pointless.


The event it's self can be fun, but those group of sore losers are what bring down the event. Would like to go to a event feel like your doing great and then find out someone bombed you on your scores and it cost you 1st.. I don't think that would sit well with anyone
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




Dman137 wrote:
pm713 wrote:
Dman137 wrote:
Wonderwolf wrote:
To play games?

Tournaments started (and for many people remain) an event (i) to play outside their regular group of opponents, (ii) play several games in a single day, (iii) get some games in after a long time of not playing, (iv) see lots of different and cool armies, (v) meet new/different hobbyists.

Tournaments are a celebration of everything the hobby is about (unless they are spoiled by the WAAC/competitive 'tards)

GW isn't made for competitive gaming. If you try to square that circle, the only competition you're winning is the one for the lowest IQ in the room.





It's a competition lmao if they wanted it to be fun and make friends then why even have a winner.? Any time there's winners and losers it's a event, and competitive. Gts were made to have the best players face off. That's why we use to have GT and Golden daemon.

Being a competition does not mean there can be no fun. If there's no entertainment then the entire game is pointless.


The event it's self can be fun, but those group of sore losers are what bring down the event. Would like to go to a event feel like your doing great and then find out someone bombed you on your scores and it cost you 1st.. I don't think that would sit well with anyone

No but that's an issue with the specific person not with people going to events to have fun.

tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam  
   
Made in us
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator





Philadelphia

Dman137 wrote:
Wonderwolf wrote:
To play games?

Tournaments started (and for many people remain) an event (i) to play outside their regular group of opponents, (ii) play several games in a single day, (iii) get some games in after a long time of not playing, (iv) see lots of different and cool armies, (v) meet new/different hobbyists.

Tournaments are a celebration of everything the hobby is about (unless they are spoiled by the WAAC/competitive 'tards)

GW isn't made for competitive gaming. If you try to square that circle, the only competition you're winning is the one for the lowest IQ in the room.





It's a competition lmao if they wanted it to be fun and make friends then why even have a winner.? Any time there's winners and losers it's a event, and competitive. Gts were made to have the best players face off. That's why we use to have GT and Golden daemon.


Uh, not really. Go back to the start of the GTs, run by GW, and typically the winner of the GT would be the 'best all around hobbyist'. The winners rarely won all of their games, but were great opponents, had converted and amazingly painted armies, and came to 'have fun'. And people played to that. The 'meta' was that soft scores mattered more than battle points, and it was that way for years.

A change did come when they started to give awards for 'best general', 'best sportsman', etc., but overall still often went to the person who didnt win every game, and had great soft scores. Those were the GTs I remember and enjoyed. The newer tournies and netlists are not my cup of tea, so I avoid them.

What it important is that the TO makes it clear the type of tournament, and players understand how scoring works. Don't like soft scores? Don't go to those tournies. Btw, I've also seen people from the same 'clubs' knock people's soft scores to help their friends score higher in the standings. So it isn't just fluff bunnies with hurt feelings that they got tabled that do that...

Legio Suturvora 2000 points (painted)
30k Word Bearers 2000 points (in progress)
Daemonhunters 1000 points (painted)
Flesh Tearers 2000+ points (painted) - Balt GT '02 52nd; Balt GT '05 16th
Kabal of the Tortured Soul 2000+ points (painted) - Balt GT '08 85th; Mechanicon '09 12th
Greenwing 1000 points (painted) - Adepticon Team Tourny 2013

"There is rational thought here. It's just swimming through a sea of stupid and is often concealed from view by the waves of irrational conclusions." - Railguns 
   
Made in us
Wicked Canoptek Wraith





The deal for me is, if you're playing for fun, know that you are.

Don't pretend that you brought a fun/fluffy list while another guy brought a WAAC list, and he's somehow an donkey-cave for it.

The fact of the matter is, you went to the event for different reasons, and that's okay, but you can't expect to win the Tourney, and can't bitch when you don't.

If you don't wanna go up against a WAAC list then don't do it. I've seen loads of people leave my Eldar friend with 40K blue balls.
Nobody is making you battle that guy, you're just doing it to be miserable and make him miserable with you.

Some people are in it for the beer and 40K, and some people are in it for tactics and strategy.

EDIT: lol. donkey-cave. I didn't know this did that. Also you censor that but not bitch?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/02 17:14:27


- 10000+ pts
Imperial Knights- 5 Standard Knights / 3 Cerastus Knights
Officio Assassinorum - 4 Assassins
CSM - 500pts? Maybe? Its from the Officio Assassinorum box so I'm pretty sure its not enough to run in a CAD
Vampire Lords- I have no idea I bought it like two days before I left country and they're still in storage so I'll have to see when I get back.] 
   
Made in ca
Journeyman Inquisitor with Visions of the Warp




Tactics and strategy aren't actually tied to list-building.
   
Made in ca
Executing Exarch






Yoyoyo wrote:
Tactics and strategy aren't actually tied to list-building.


Tactics and strategy start before list building, building a list that mitigates bad luck and maximizes the removal of enemy models is 100% tactics and strategy.

Rick Priestley said it best:
Bryan always said that if the studio ever had to mix with the manufacturing and sales part of the business it would destroy the studio. And I have to say – he wasn’t wrong there! The modern studio isn’t a studio in the same way; it isn’t a collection of artists and creatives sharing ideas and driving each other on. It’s become the promotions department of a toy company – things move on!
 
   
Made in us
Wicked Canoptek Wraith





Yoyoyo wrote:
Tactics and strategy aren't actually tied to list-building.


I disagree. I own at least 15 codexes, all of which I've read cover to cover at least once, but I only play one army.

There's a certain degree of pre-tourney research and consideration when it comes to list-building.

Who are the potential armies you'll be fighting? What will they be trying to accomplish?
What are their special rules and strengths and weaknesses?

All of this has to be considered when you're choosing your units, and setting your pre-strats.

Its to increase your battlefield flexibility, so that you don't gak yourself whenever your opponent brings out something you can't deal with.

- 10000+ pts
Imperial Knights- 5 Standard Knights / 3 Cerastus Knights
Officio Assassinorum - 4 Assassins
CSM - 500pts? Maybe? Its from the Officio Assassinorum box so I'm pretty sure its not enough to run in a CAD
Vampire Lords- I have no idea I bought it like two days before I left country and they're still in storage so I'll have to see when I get back.] 
   
Made in ca
Executing Exarch






Exactly, if you know eldar are going to be 25% of armies at an event you bring a list that handles eldar. If you know those eldar armies will likely be toting at least 20 jetbikes you bring what kills them.

You just go through all the power builds and adapt your army to deal with them, odds are you will do fine against sub par armies anyway.

Rick Priestley said it best:
Bryan always said that if the studio ever had to mix with the manufacturing and sales part of the business it would destroy the studio. And I have to say – he wasn’t wrong there! The modern studio isn’t a studio in the same way; it isn’t a collection of artists and creatives sharing ideas and driving each other on. It’s become the promotions department of a toy company – things move on!
 
   
Made in ca
Perfect Shot Dark Angels Predator Pilot




Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

This seems more of an issue with how the tournament is scored and decided and less of a "let's brushstrokes all these people"

Perhaps "less competitive" players should be more aware of what they are getting into and expected "ediquit" of "highly competitive" tournaments. But excluding people from events because they play the game different is bull. If you went on like this while playing me, you'd probably earn a low sportsmanship score too. But that wouldn't affect paint score ect.

"And the Angels of Darkness descended on pinions of fire and light... the great and terrible dark angels."
— Ancient Calibanite Fable 
   
Made in no
Dakka Veteran




The OP is the same poster who has created a 7+ page argument thread about his "unbeatable" Eldar army on the army list forum and is behind several threads created soley for the purpose of trolling and creating arguments. Please do not feed the trolls...
   
Made in ca
Journeyman Inquisitor with Visions of the Warp




Let's rephrase, employing tactics and strategy *on the tabletop* isn't equivalent to min-maxing a list for advantage from your rulebook. Or gaming the meta of the tournament environment.

I know dakka is pedantic but come on, gents. Read between the lines.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/02 17:33:11


 
   
Made in us
Enginseer with a Wrench




Fort Worth, Tx

GrafWattenburg, my thought exactly.

XIX Legion - 3500 points 
   
Made in us
Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine




Little Rock, Arkansas

Yoyoyo wrote:
Let's rephrase, employing tactics and strategy *on the tabletop* isn't equivalent to min-maxing a list for advantage from your rulebook. Or gaming the meta of the tournament environment.

I know dakka is pedantic but come on, gents. Read between the lines.


Overall strategy is extremely directly tied to your list, even without min-maxing. I mean it's kind of obvious that your game strategy can't be "corner castle and shoot a bit before going to objectives" if your army is a bunch of assault units. You may personally dislike that list building is such an important part of the game, but it is.

As for the thread: People should be going to whatever event they want if they're having fun. I don't care if they're playing a horrible guard army and get matched to my top table army round 1. They have just as much right to be there as anyone else. Maybe if the OP would treat the players of those "underdog" lists with some courtesy, he wouldn't find his sport scores hurting so much.

Dman, I think next time you earn a level IRL you should get some charisma stat points or train some diplomacy. I sense the lack of those is causing you a lot of issues.

Remember the old saying: "if you met one TFG all day, it's them. If all you met was TFG's then it's you."

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/02 18:02:56


20000+ points
Tournament reports:
1234567 
   
Made in us
Shas'ui with Bonding Knife






See my sig, but that doesn't mean I won't go to a tournament at some time in the future. It may give me a chance just to try out a new army or configuration against several players from several different areas with several different metas than my local GW shop.

It'd probably be fun! Plus, it's a game... and even if there is money involved for those who win, if you face someone who has an underpowered army or one that just isn't competitive, you get a win that will help you in the long run.

Where's the downside?

SG

40K - T'au Empire
Kill Team - T'au Empire, Death Guard
Warhammer Underworlds - Garrek’s Reavers

*** I only play for fun. I do not play competitively. *** 
   
Made in us
Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight







I'll bomb your soft scores if you are just a rude person just the way it is, lucky we don't have scores on this site.

I already know I don't have a good chance at ending on the top of the pile at the end of they day, so I play for fun. To have fun you go where the games are, tournies are guaranteed games. You meet new people, shoot the gak with them, watch other games and talk about how those people could have done better, occasionally you get amazed at a new list idea. After its all finished you get to complain about how the top players take the OP gak. That's the price, you have a better chance of ending up at the top, but we get to point out how you did it by beating the players who didn't take it as seriously.

But that's just life.


 SHUPPET wrote:

wtf is this buddhist monk ascendant martial dice arts crap lol
 
   
Made in ie
Norn Queen






Dublin, Ireland

what are your views on non competitive players going to events but then bash it about how OP players were and also bombing there soft scores.


Never met any non comp players who bashed getting a beating at a tourney.
Sure they might be disappointed, a bit disillusioned and maybe even a but pee'd off but openly having a bash at someone. Nah, aint seen it.

Comp players go to win. Rest of us go to drink beers, meet some fun people and do our best.
I've been tabled/well beaten many times but theres always something to learn and discuss afterwards, unless the guy that beat you is TFG and laughs in your face.
And if that happens, well they arent worth getting to know anyways.....

Dman137 wrote:
goobs is all you guys will ever be

By 1-irt: Still as long as Hissy keeps showing up this is one of the most entertaining threads ever.

"Feelin' goods, good enough". 
   
Made in us
Screaming Shining Spear





Rapid City, SD

I think competitive tournaments as they stand now should go away. The winner should be the best sportsman not the guy who brought the cheese list. If tournaments were run more along these lines I might actually take something that isn't scatter spam with wraithknights.

Successful trades/sales: tekn0v1king 
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter






There are TFGS all over not just competitive.

There are TFG Fluff bunnies as much as crunchasoreassretkses


 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.

Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!

 
   
 
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