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As above. Does anyone on here actually have them in their armies or not? (Whether they be original models or your conversions)And if so/if not why?

I honestly don't know a single person who has them, let alone use them.

The most I've ever seen them used was on an experimental basis. But never as a stable part of any list.

Yeah, I've never seen them either.

They seem like a good idea in theory - I mean, obliterators are valued for their utility, and a melee obliterator seems like it could be useful as well. And they're an all-purpose terminator with an extra wound for not many more points.

S&P and no fearless makes them a bit slow and risky to use, I suppose.

That being said..........they're very similar to meganobz in rules, statline, and utility, and meganobz are fairly common.

Except multilators have a 5++ and can deep strike with mark options. They are 15 points more than a base meganob, but only 5 more than a killsaw meganob, which isn't at all unreasonable, imo.

Maybe the biggest issue is their max squad size is 3.

Honestly, if they were maybe a bit cheaper and came in larger squads they'd be a good sight better than meganobz which, again, are relatively common.

I mean, honestly, if I could take a 50 point killsaw meganob and give him a 5++ and deep strike for only 5 more points, I'd do that in a heartbeat. And that's without being able to attach a fearless IC to go with them, which CSM can do.

I've been sorely tempted to start up a Khornekin army while we wait on a new CSM codex, but I was honestly really disappointed that Mutilators got left out... (seriously, what's up with that? Mutilators scream perfect fit for a Khornate host?!)

I've been toying with ways to include a token squad of 1 or 2 to simply use as a Deep Strike annoyance/chaff unit, but then it gets in the way of another problem with the Khornekin book - that 'Zerkers are minimum 8/squad, and I want only a squad of 5 loaded with Plasma pistols as a themed suicide anti-vehicle squad. (yes, I know it's terribly un-optimised, but I enjoy the idea of a small cadre of crazy loons who're akin to the Uruk-hai Berserkers who blew out the wall at Helm's Deep! )

I saw an american guy play 3 solo mutilators of nurgle and just deepstrike them for the lulz. They are actually very durable without costing too much, and once in a while they might actually mess with the oponent's movement or get a strange charge. Besides, the oblit/muti box is cheap. Good way to make a cheap army list if you are on budget. 4 boxes should give you 9 oblits and 3 mutilators. Bam 60% of the list done. Add a chaos starter set and you get a lame but cheap 1200 list.

I have some guys who were something else but are now mutilators. They don't even make the cut in large apocalypse games.

Like chosen, they aren't entirely useless but they fill a very niche role.
If you have good target saturation but want a distraction to support them, are using BF FoC and have already filled up your other slots on goodies, and don't have the points, models or theme to take better elites then deep striking 3 relatively cheap autonomous daemonic mulchers in front of enemy gunlines/objective can make for one hell of a hard targeting choice.

(Every unit pouring fire into a mutilator isn't pouring it into another advancing unit. Every shooty unit ignoring them is in for a nasty suprise when it charges them and ties them up or outright kills them)

Terrible models, terrible rules. I have never even considered them.

I've never seen them used.

My friend brought up a perfect reason why never to use Mutilators. Obliterators have Powerfists.

 krodarklorr wrote:
I honestly don't know a single person who has them, let alone use them.

This.

They're everything a melee unit should not be. They're a unit that *might* have been workable in 4th edition but didn't get created until 6th.

At this point, it's hard to really even say what they should be costed at. With units like Thunderwolves and Wraiths at a mere 40pts, you'd think Mutilators should cost even less, but how much less do you go before you make them identical in cost to basic Terminators, and then how low do they need to be priced in turn?

I'll make the same post I make in all of these Mutilator threads. And then I will not check back, since the usual parrotism of hte internet will remain as closed minded as possible about things.

Mutilators are OK. They are good at the things you might think they are good at by looking at them on paper: namely, appearing next to the enemy and disrupting them with moderately durable and dangerous assault units, or doing the same, but from a counter-attack stand point in you own end.

Those are both things that are sometimes useful in games.

They are not terrible, but they also are not amazing. They're just acceptable at what they can do. The internet likes to equate "not the best" with "the worst thing ever".

The Chaos Space Marine codex has a lot of problems. While mutilators are good enough at what they do, they are definitely not going to cover up even any of those problems. But that's not because Mutilators are bad.

I use them and i like them!

Mark of khorn and run them at the biggest threat, as there seen as useless they are generally ignored untill they hit a unit with 5 attacks each possibly with rerolls from vetrens and there array of weaponry thats a threat to everything. (Chainfists to lighgning claws & everything inbetween). If there shot at it means something else isnt getting hit. There down side is speed but in my area people like drop pods so alls good and there in elites which is a rearly used slot for my csm.

Oblits get power fists and can shoot some decent weapons.

Worth the increase in cost imho

 DarknessEternal wrote:
I'll make the same post I make in all of these Mutilator threads. And then I will not check back, since the usual parrotism of hte internet will remain as closed minded as possible about things.

Mutilators are OK. They are good at the things you might think they are good at by looking at them on paper: namely, appearing next to the enemy and disrupting them with moderately durable and dangerous assault units, or doing the same, but from a counter-attack stand point in you own end.

Those are both things that are sometimes useful in games.

They are not terrible, but they also are not amazing. They're just acceptable at what they can do. The internet likes to equate "not the best" with "the worst thing ever".

The Chaos Space Marine codex has a lot of problems. While mutilators are good enough at what they do, they are definitely not going to cover up even any of those problems. But that's not because Mutilators are bad.

The problem is that, between their slowness to actually get to grips, extremely limited unit size, and vulnerability to ID, they're absurdly easy to negate, either through destruction or avoidance.

I've seen a Daemonkin army with a squad, they make great Distraction Carnifexes, and sometimes you need that.

I'm considering getting some one day but my problem is this I'm currently building up my Blight Angels and making them into a mechanised army. So you could say I'm struggling to find a place for them in my lists

Champion of Slaanesh wrote:
I'm considering getting some one day but my problem is this I'm currently building up my Blight Angels and making them into a mechanised army. So you could say I'm struggling to find a place for them in my lists

A Deep Striking backfield Distraction Fex. I dont know a lot of people who won't turn something around to deal with them. If its a slot problem, you need more allies

 DarknessEternal wrote:
I'll make the same post I make in all of these Mutilator threads. And then I will not check back, since the usual parrotism of hte internet will remain as closed minded as possible about things.

Mutilators are OK. They are good at the things you might think they are good at by looking at them on paper: namely, appearing next to the enemy and disrupting them with moderately durable and dangerous assault units, or doing the same, but from a counter-attack stand point in you own end.

Those are both things that are sometimes useful in games.

They are not terrible, but they also are not amazing. They're just acceptable at what they can do. The internet likes to equate "not the best" with "the worst thing ever".

The Chaos Space Marine codex has a lot of problems. While mutilators are good enough at what they do, they are definitely not going to cover up even any of those problems. But that's not because Mutilators are bad.

Why not take Oblits instead and have them be just as much a threat with their powerfists while also shooting something the turn they come on?

 Ashiraya wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:
I'll make the same post I make in all of these Mutilator threads. And then I will not check back, since the usual parrotism of hte internet will remain as closed minded as possible about things.

Mutilators are OK. They are good at the things you might think they are good at by looking at them on paper: namely, appearing next to the enemy and disrupting them with moderately durable and dangerous assault units, or doing the same, but from a counter-attack stand point in you own end.

Those are both things that are sometimes useful in games.

They are not terrible, but they also are not amazing. They're just acceptable at what they can do. The internet likes to equate "not the best" with "the worst thing ever".

The Chaos Space Marine codex has a lot of problems. While mutilators are good enough at what they do, they are definitely not going to cover up even any of those problems. But that's not because Mutilators are bad.

Why not take Oblits instead and have them be just as much a threat with their powerfists while also shooting something the turn they come on?

The only argument I can think of is the relative usefulness of their respective slots. I seldom struggle with running out of Elites. The single model squad idea has tempted me at times (Would Daemon Icons work with them? Away from my books)

I used them in kill team and they where actually quite nasty.

In normal game I used them a few times. I give them mark of Nurgle and ally in a Herald of Nurgle with the loci that gives FnP. They become quite durable this way, but mass shooting will still ruin their day, as will S10.

Sure you could also ignore their maximum unit size which people seem to do as well. Take a unit of 6. Put them in a house ruled chaos landraider with 14+ capacity. Attach a nurgle herald and a nurgle chaos lord with artefacts from multiple supplements. Win!

Seriously though, I would run them in friendly games in units of 1, as deep strike objective grabbers and distraction units. For this purpose they can be better than oblits as they do not take up heavy slots.

 Eldarain wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:


Why not take Oblits instead and have them be just as much a threat with their powerfists while also shooting something the turn they come on?

The only argument I can think of is the relative usefulness of their respective slots. I seldom struggle with running out of Elites. The single model squad idea has tempted me at times (Would Daemon Icons work with them? Away from my books)

That was both a reasonable question and response. Obviously Obliterators would almost always be better in a vacuum if you had an unlimited amount of points and FOC.

But the differences are there, 1 attack, 15 points, elites vs heavy.

If you were to say, I'm using Obliterators in this army do to those things you said Mutilators could do, and my army wouldn't benefit from that choice being otherwise; I would have to agree that your opinion is valid.

But almost always isn't always.

It isn't exactly 2 Obiliterators vs 3 Mutilators, but it's pretty close. If that were your matchup, it's a lot closer than an obvious advantage for Obliterators in all cases.

 salix_fatuus wrote:
I used them in kill team and they where actually quite nasty.

In normal game I used them a few times. I give them mark of Nurgle and ally in a Herald of Nurgle with the loci that gives FnP. They become quite durable this way, but mass shooting will still ruin their day, as will S10.

Check your daemons book, you can't attach the Nurgle herald to them as while they have the Daemon special rule, they don't have Daemonic instability, so the herald may not join (unless the Nurgle loci gives fnp in a bubble, in which case, carry on).

On topic: Muties have a choice of Chainfists, Lightning Claws, Power Swords/Axes/Mauls and that it. If you need str 8 to actually hurt something, you'd damn well better do it in the 1st round, otherwise you're going to stand around like a chump taking casualties and being destroyed/run down.

They can't spread out when they deep strike 'cause S'nP, so they have to stay in formation to get shot to hell by blast weapons, they have no deep strike scatter mitigation, and only move 6" a turn. Melee units are generally required to be at least 2 of; cheap, tough, numerous, killy, fast. Preferably all 5. Muties manage to fulfil ... 1 of those 1/2 the time.

Think of it this way. Tactical terminators are bad at 35 points a model and they have a shooting weapon, aren't SnP, have chapter tactics and ATSKNF and can use their powerfist every round. Would you pay 20 points and give up all these things for another wound? No, no you wouldn't. There is no defending Mulilators. They are the worst unit in one of, if not the, worst codex, by a long margin. Can they get lucky and soak a round of fire and kill an expensive vehicle on the rare occassion your opponent doesn't simply move the vehicle away? Yes, but then, so can virtually anything else.

If you're going to pack 3x1 into your elite slots and use them as distractions, then I could suggest many more efficient things you could be doing with that 165 points (or 183 points since MoN is basically mandatory). You know an allied detachment of a lvl 2 Herald of Tzeentch and 11 horrors is 169 points and provides 4 warp charge, 3 attempts at cursed earth and 5 maelific power, along with a backfield Obsec objective camper, yeah?

Muties are a terrible unit, with terrible rules and a terrible model. The only way you could possibly make them worse is by putting them in heavy support where they compete with useful things.

The real question is (assuming the model was less terrible), what points cost would they be acceptable at with their current rules? I'm guessing around 25 - 30, but then, people don't take honour guard at 25 points, so who knows? I think at 90 points they would be an acceptable loss as a throwaway distraction.

 Drasius wrote:
You know an allied detachment of a lvl 2 Herald of Tzeentch and 11 horrors is 169 points and provides 4 warp charge, 3 attempts at cursed earth and 5 maelific power, along with a backfield Obsec objective camper, yeah?

2 things:
1. CSM don't need to spend ally points on backfield objective campers. That's literally the only thing the codex can do on it's own.
2. That configuration ends up with a maximum of 3 malefic powers. 2 from the herald, and one from the pink horros. Neither of them get free primaris powers from Malefic.

I have a friend who uses Muties. Problem is, the only time I've seen him use them, he gave them MoT and claimed that they were now 2+/4++. AFAIK, they don't have an invuln naturally (they aren't terminators, after all). Makes me wonder if the guy is cheating or if he really is confused somehow. He does the same thing with Oblits, too. I may call him on it next time we play (if he uses that list).

 ZergSmasher wrote:
I have a friend who uses Muties. Problem is, the only time I've seen him use them, he gave them MoT and claimed that they were now 2+/4++. AFAIK, they don't have an invuln naturally (they aren't terminators, after all). Makes me wonder if the guy is cheating or if he really is confused somehow. He does the same thing with Oblits, too. I may call him on it next time we play (if he uses that list).

They have the Daemon rule, which gives them a 5++, but the Mark of Tzeentch is the most expensive mark (even more expensive than giving them Nurgle for T5), it's 8ppm to go from that 5+ to a 4+.

Oh I was forgetting about Daemon, sorry...

They're one of the single worst models in the game. Terminators, both Loyalist and Traitor, have more going for them and people don't use them either.