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Made in nl
Ferocious Blood Claw






Hi, I'm looking to start a competitive Eldar army and a friend of a friend is getting rid of his, but I don't know if it's any good.

what is a competitive Eldar list?


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





UK

Many people will tell you Windriders with Scatterlasers, Warp Spiders, Wraithknight with Ghostglaive, Hornets, Crimson Hunters and Fire Dragons.

To that I say...they are not wrong.

YMDC = nightmare 
   
Made in nl
Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch



Netherlands

Aanything that isn't storm guardians is a competitive choice.

Then there's just layers of cheese. You decide how many layers do you want your cheeseburger to have. And consequently how many enemy tears does your tearcup hold.

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Made in us
Dakka Veteran






Really just about every unit can work given the right list. Despite a very vocal percentage most of the stuff isn't OP, with exception to scatbikes, but pretty much every other unit can be used competitively with varying degrees of success. Off the top of my head the only two that I struggle to figure out are wraithblades and the aforementioned storm guardians.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





UK

Even then they aren't bad. Remember you've got access to DE Assault Vehicles for Wraithblades.

Storm Guardians are still a respectable troop choice (even though Windriders outshine them).

YMDC = nightmare 
   
Made in gb
Killer Klaivex




The dark behind the eyes.

 Dinges643 wrote:
what is a competitive Eldar list?


An Eldar list.

 blood reaper wrote:
I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.



 the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

 Argive wrote:
GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in us
Hellacious Havoc





There are really not a lot of bad choices in the codex, only ones that are mediocre compared to their alternate option (like the aforementioned guardians vs. jetbikes.)

In the next few weeks, I can't wait for all these "new player threads" to transition to:

"Hey Dakka, really like the Tau's aesthetic..."

"Hey Dakka, always liked Tau's fluff..."

It'll be a good time.

"Tau seem like a good choice..."

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/09/29 11:44:38


 
   
Made in nl
Ferocious Blood Claw






 arinnoor wrote:
Really just about every unit can work given the right list. Despite a very vocal percentage most of the stuff isn't OP, with exception to scatbikes, but pretty much every other unit can be used competitively with varying degrees of success. Off the top of my head the only two that I struggle to figure out are wraithblades and the aforementioned storm guardians.


Scatbikes?

could not find them on GW website.

 
   
Made in nl
Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch



Netherlands

 Dinges643 wrote:
 arinnoor wrote:
Really just about every unit can work given the right list. Despite a very vocal percentage most of the stuff isn't OP, with exception to scatbikes, but pretty much every other unit can be used competitively with varying degrees of success. Off the top of my head the only two that I struggle to figure out are wraithblades and the aforementioned storm guardians.


Scatbikes?

could not find them on GW website.


Windrider bikes upgraded with scatter laser weapons. All of them. For 27 ppm you get a jetbike speed space marine with additional move in the assault phase that can jink and shoots 4 shots at str 6 36" away. Basically imagine giving every single space marine in your army an assault cannon, adding 12" range, 12" move, ability to flat out, additional 2d6" move in the assault phase AND jink. For 27 ppm. And you have a scatbike.

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15000
4000 
   
Made in gb
Killer Klaivex




The dark behind the eyes.

 Lukash_ wrote:
There are really not a lot of bad choices in the codex, only ones that are mediocre compared to their alternate option (like the aforementioned guardians vs. jetbikes.)

In the next few weeks, I can't wait for all these "new player threads" to transition to:

"Hey Dakka, really like the Tau's aesthetic..."

"Hey Dakka, always liked Tau's fluff..."

It'll be a good time.

"Tau seem like a good choice..."


It's the same with allies, isn't it?

I'm always astounded by how a Wraithknight seems to fit into absolutely any DE list.

 blood reaper wrote:
I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.



 the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

 Argive wrote:
GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in us
Hellacious Havoc





On a serious note OP, keep in mind that many people will outright refuse to play a "competitive Eldar list" in friendly games. If you want to become That Guy or only plan to play at tournaments, by all means continue. Eldar are pretty ridiculously powerful now, and many codex's "competitive lists" will struggle to deal with even a basic, non-Kraftworld Mozzarella, list.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






 Lukash_ wrote:
On a serious note OP, keep in mind that many people will outright refuse to play a "competitive Eldar list" in friendly games. If you want to become That Guy or only plan to play at tournaments, by all means continue. Eldar are pretty ridiculously powerful now, and many codex's "competitive lists" will struggle to deal with even a basic, non-Kraftworld Mozzarella, list.


Hmph, if one guy at my shop were to be believed eldar in general is too OP and I'm typically running catapult bikes and striking scorpions against him.
   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot




PA Unitied States

armies that follow any combination/formation of the following units

HQ-
Farseer on Jetbike
Baharoth
Warlock Conclave on Jetbikes

Elite-
D-scythes units in waveserpent (allied webway portal)

Troops-
Jetbike heavy weapon spam mostly scatterlasers

Fast attack-
Crimsons hunters
Warp Spiders
Swooping Hawks

LOW-
WraithKnight


Allies-
Archon with webway portal

warriors in venom

There are a few other units that are great in situations and many that become better under formations like aspect shrine and Dire avenger shrine, also the ability to take 5 wraithknights at 1850 is stupid strong. but the basics above are a starting templete, you don't need everything above to be considered OP just some of it. for example many armies do just fine without D-scythes and archon.



As someone stated this templete is just a starting point for competetive lists, most people will not play Eldar competetive builds for fun on the weekends and such.

I tend to play a self imposed restriction of highlander list no LOW to have fun, unless my opponent is bringing a competetive build that he wants to test out.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/29 12:09:43


22 yrs in the hobby
:Eldar: 10K+ pts, 2500 pts
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Vampire Counts 4000+ 
   
Made in nl
Ferocious Blood Claw






 Lukash_ wrote:
On a serious note OP, keep in mind that many people will outright refuse to play a "competitive Eldar list" in friendly games. If you want to become That Guy or only plan to play at tournaments, by all means continue. Eldar are pretty ridiculously powerful now, and many codex's "competitive lists" will struggle to deal with even a basic, non-Kraftworld Mozzarella, list.


i usually play marines or space wolves, with varied success and usually make it a close battle against any army, but have some trouble playing deamons and tau they almost always win and win big.

so i thought: Eldar.
nobody in my club plays it and heard it was a pretty good army, but i don't realy know any of the models or know where to begin making an armylist whithout already investing.


 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Master with Gauntlets of Macragge




What's left of Cadia

Luckily for you nearly everything in the eldar codex is good.

TheEyeOfNight- I swear, this thread is 70% smack talk, 20% RP organization, and 10% butt jokes
TheEyeOfNight- "Ordo Xenos reports that the Necrons have attained democracy, kamikaze tendencies, and nuclear fission. It's all tits up, sir."
Space Marine flyers are shaped for the greatest possible air resistance so that the air may never defeat the SPACE MARINES!
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum
 
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan




Homestead, FL

 arinnoor wrote:
Really just about every unit can work given the right list. Despite a very vocal percentage most of the stuff isn't OP, with exception to scatbikes, but pretty much every other unit can be used competitively with varying degrees of success. Off the top of my head the only two that I struggle to figure out are wraithblades and the aforementioned storm guardians.


Your right about only Scat Bikes being OP. Elites should be armed with D weapons. And Jump GC with 2 D weapons should be priced under 300 points. Not to mention the fact that Eldar are so awesome that they, and they alone should have AP0 Melta weapons.

Or BS5 Standard infantry (in formation)

Or D weapon Aircraft....ohh and they can be psychic.

lmao keep trying to minimize how broken the Eldar codex is.

I come in peace. I didn't bring artillery. But I'm pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you mess with me, I'll kill you all

Marine General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal leaders 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




 Lukash_ wrote:
There are really not a lot of bad choices in the codex, only ones that are mediocre compared to their alternate option (like the aforementioned guardians vs. jetbikes.)

In the next few weeks, I can't wait for all these "new player threads" to transition to:

"Hey Dakka, really like the Tau's aesthetic..."

"Hey Dakka, always liked Tau's fluff..."

It'll be a good time.

"Tau seem like a good choice..."


Tau is already very good if you know how to play it haha

Go read some competitive battle report they are awsome !

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/30 01:48:09


 
   
Made in nl
Ferocious Blood Claw






ok,

i.m going to start with this:

HQ
Farseer on a bike

troops:

windriders with scatterlasers and a warlock
windriders with scatterlasers and a warlock

Elites
Wraithguard in a wave serpent

heavy support

Wraithlord

I haven't decided on any weaponry jet except for the wraithguard, they shall be armed with D-scytes.

 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






 Ghazkuul wrote:


Your right about only Scat Bikes being OP. Elites should be armed with D weapons. And Jump GC with 2 D weapons should be priced under 300 points. Not to mention the fact that Eldar are so awesome that they, and they alone should have AP0 Melta weapons.

Or BS5 Standard infantry (in formation)

Or D weapon Aircraft....ohh and they can be psychic.

lmao keep trying to minimize how broken the Eldar codex is.


From my experience yes the other stuff isn't OP. Both the worst players in my store, playing chaos space marines, have been able to handle them just fine. I will fully admit that I wasn't spamming those things nor running them with scatbikes, but seriously if chaos can do it anyone can.
   
Made in nl
Ferocious Blood Claw






what about crimson hunters or hemlock wraithfighters? are they any good?

 
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




After playing some more games, I have to say the WK is even worse than scatterbikes. Scatterbikes can be treated like DA bikers that have better shooting, but the WK is straight up impervious to too many things. And the WK is fantastic defense against drop/shunt lists. They are both horribly unbalanced, but I'm giving the nod to WK atm.
   
Made in us
Screaming Shining Spear





Northern California

Martel732 wrote:
After playing some more games, I have to say the WK is even worse than scatterbikes. Scatterbikes can be treated like DA bikers that have better shooting, but the WK is straight up impervious to too many things. And the WK is fantastic defense against drop/shunt lists. They are both horribly unbalanced, but I'm giving the nod to WK atm.

"But it dies to grav, so it's actually terrible! You just need to L2P goob." - The inevitable response from certain posters on this forum.

This is why I'm questioning the ITC's wisdom in allowing a duplicate formation, as it could potentially allow for two Wraithknights, As you've seen, one is bad enough already.

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Coming Soon!
Dman137 wrote:
goobs is all you guys will ever be
 
   
Made in ca
Dakka Veteran





 TheNewBlood wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
After playing some more games, I have to say the WK is even worse than scatterbikes. Scatterbikes can be treated like DA bikers that have better shooting, but the WK is straight up impervious to too many things. And the WK is fantastic defense against drop/shunt lists. They are both horribly unbalanced, but I'm giving the nod to WK atm.

"But it dies to grav, so it's actually terrible! You just need to L2P goob." - The inevitable response from certain posters on this forum.

This is why I'm questioning the ITC's wisdom in allowing a duplicate formation, as it could potentially allow for two Wraithknights, As you've seen, one is bad enough already.
the WK is garbage, it's just a big distraction unit, any real competitive army will have that thing dead in 1-2 turns. You want powerful units and competive eldar.? Take hemlocks, there way better then WKs, scattbikes are also one of the best, so are warpspiders.
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




Don't bother replying to my posts, Dman. I'm not interested in what you have to say.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/05 16:53:08


 
   
Made in ca
Dakka Veteran





Martel732 wrote:
Don't bother replying to my posts, Dman. I'm not interested in what you have to say.
then please don't reply to people's posts when you don't no what your talking about. He's asking for good advice not bad advice
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan




Homestead, FL

Dman137 wrote:
 TheNewBlood wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
After playing some more games, I have to say the WK is even worse than scatterbikes. Scatterbikes can be treated like DA bikers that have better shooting, but the WK is straight up impervious to too many things. And the WK is fantastic defense against drop/shunt lists. They are both horribly unbalanced, but I'm giving the nod to WK atm.

"But it dies to grav, so it's actually terrible! You just need to L2P goob." - The inevitable response from certain posters on this forum.

This is why I'm questioning the ITC's wisdom in allowing a duplicate formation, as it could potentially allow for two Wraithknights, As you've seen, one is bad enough already.
the WK is garbage, it's just a big distraction unit, any real competitive army will have that thing dead in 1-2 turns. You want powerful units and competive eldar.? Take hemlocks, there way better then WKs, scattbikes are also one of the best, so are warpspiders.


How does my Ork Competitive lists kill the Wraithknight in turn 1 or turn 2?

The only 2 really competitive ork lists are Green tide with the stupid void shield generator and the biker spam. Neither of which can actually kill a WK in turn 1 or turn 2, unless they WK is dumb enough to get charged by the Green tide and it happens to have lots of PK's in it near enough the WK to inflict enough wounds to kill it. But of course that means the WK has to be so stupid it walks into a no gain situation and not stand back and shoot the hell out of other things. And Biker spam? not enough Pks in there to kill the WK before it stomps and kills everything.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
thats the 2nd time you have said any army can kill a WK in 1-2 turns and yet you have not answered me how an Ork list can do that.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/05 17:10:24


I come in peace. I didn't bring artillery. But I'm pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you mess with me, I'll kill you all

Marine General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal leaders 
   
Made in ca
Executing Exarch






Its basically anything eldar if you listen to dakka and its inability to get over its daddys belt issue it has with eldar.

Im pretty sure I can make a 60 strong ranger list and get called cheese if I manage to win a game.

Dman137 wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
Don't bother replying to my posts, Dman. I'm not interested in what you have to say.
then please don't reply to people's posts when you don't no what your talking about. He's asking for good advice not bad advice


Man your hate groupies sure do like interacting with you. Face hard truths or hide under mom and dads coats and wait for the party to end.

 TheNewBlood wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
After playing some more games, I have to say the WK is even worse than scatterbikes. Scatterbikes can be treated like DA bikers that have better shooting, but the WK is straight up impervious to too many things. And the WK is fantastic defense against drop/shunt lists. They are both horribly unbalanced, but I'm giving the nod to WK atm.

"But it dies to grav, so it's actually terrible! You just need to L2P goob." - The inevitable response from certain posters on this forum.

This is why I'm questioning the ITC's wisdom in allowing a duplicate formation, as it could potentially allow for two Wraithknights, As you've seen, one is bad enough already.


Newblood, it is terrible because most events only let you take 1, and there are so many counters to it that it isn't worth considering. If you weren't a goob that needs to learn to play you'd have the experience to know that by now. If you seriously cannot deal with a single wraithknight then you are, in fact, bad at the game.

Taking 2 in the current meta is even worse. Here's 2 drop centurion squads, Now you're missing 600pts + whatever else the sgts kill off.

 Dinges643 wrote:
what about crimson hunters or hemlock wraithfighters? are they any good?


Hemlocks are amazing, again dakka will tell you they are bad, but they are extremely useful at tank/MC hunting and massively disrupt troops. Here's the best way to load them out, against non daemons roll once on telepathy, if you get shrouding or invisibility just roll again on telepathy for the second power, otherwise just take council from runes of battle.

Really the butt hurt brigade just have to get over the fact that the meta changed and they must as well. Current competitive play in general circles around dealing with 3 things.

1) Invisibility
2) 2+ rerollable cover
3) Imperial knights and wraithknights

Imp and wraith knights are both easy to deal with, haywire, grav and D are so common now.

2+ rerollable cover is counter by ignores cover or a few tricksy ways around it.

Invisibility is the hard one, if you don't have a strong psychic defense you have to feed it or do some tricky barrage work.

The key to eldar is not the typical "eldar are hard, woe is me, change it GW, I cant think for myself" but rather think about how you can deal with it. Use the force multipliers and tools available to you. Don't be one of those lazy chuds that gets upset that they have to update their army.

Oh and forget about "Drop D" you'll spend 500pts just to pull it off and you nuke out one unit and lose the wraithguard in return. Its not worth it overall. Its a noobslayer tactic.

 Ghazkuul wrote:


How does my Ork Competitive lists kill the Wraithknight in turn 1 or turn 2?



Thats an oxymoron. But here's some ideas

Greentide with rokkits or klaws
Warboss with powerklaw
Lootas
Kannons
Warbikers
That FW Warboss on a bike
Multiple Meganob missile trukks

Weight of fire really. The warboss with klaw can punk off 3 or 4 wounds alone, combine that with lootas, kannons and rokkits and it should be dead turn 2.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/10/05 17:19:58


Rick Priestley said it best:
Bryan always said that if the studio ever had to mix with the manufacturing and sales part of the business it would destroy the studio. And I have to say – he wasn’t wrong there! The modern studio isn’t a studio in the same way; it isn’t a collection of artists and creatives sharing ideas and driving each other on. It’s become the promotions department of a toy company – things move on!
 
   
Made in ca
Dakka Veteran








Automatically Appended Next Post:

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/05 17:29:24


 
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




The troll showed up here after I posted. I see the eldar trolls are multiplying. As is my ignore list.
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan




Homestead, FL

Thats an oxymoron. But here's some ideas

Greentide with rokkits or klaws
Warboss with powerklaw
Lootas
Kannons
Warbikers
That FW Warboss on a bike
Multiple Meganob missile trukks

Weight of fire really. The warboss with klaw can punk off 3 or 4 wounds alone, combine that with lootas, kannons and rokkits and it should be dead turn 2.


Green tide can move 6 possibly run 6 and possibly assault 12 (which will never happen because its so big you will hit some terrain so its a -2 to charge). Thats a possible opening movement of 12 inches if you roll a 6. Turn 2 puts you 12 inches closer, but since the WK can JSJ and because it has great range and because its a JUMP GC it doesn't have to stay still and can just slide backwards a bit. So it would be a miracle to get the tide to a WK by turn 2.

Green tide can field up to 10 rokkitz, they have a rng of 24inches, you will not be firing them 1st turn unless your opponent is an idiot, and you forgo running.

Warboss with PK can in fact inflict 3-4 wounds. 5 attacks on the charge, he is WS5 So he will hit with 2/3 of his attacks so 3-4 depending on rolls, he will then wound on 1s because he is S10 with a PK (at Initiative 1) Of course this assumes that he wasn't blasted off the table before he got there and it factors in the WK no utterly destroying his squad with his 4 S10 AP2 attacks. The Wraithknight also gets his invul if he has one and his FNP so he will realistically inflict 2-3 wounds not 3-4. leaving you with 3-4 more wounds to kill.

Lootas, S7 AP4 Rng 48. These guys can hurt the wraithknight. if you field a full squad of 15 of them you will average 30 shots, 10 hits and 2 wounds. The Wraithknight gets a 3+ save and a 5+ FNP so maybe 1 wound a turn. (full squad of lootas = 210 points)

a Battery of 5 Kannons costs 90points bare, so you could field 3 of them so lets say 15 Kannonz. with a range of 36 they might not be in range but for the sake of math hammer lets say ALL gunz are somehow in range. 15shots = 7-8 hits, 3-4 wounds and again the GC either gets a CS an Invul save and will get his FNP so 1-2 wounds a turn. taking 3 turns to kill the WK. again assuming all gunz are in range, all gunz roll average and that the WK is kind enough to stand still and take it. (15 Kannonz = 270 points)

Warbikers: this is just dumb, only the Nob can actually hurt the WK and with only 4 attacks on the charge he wont do much. (on the charge he wounds on 3s and afterwards on 4s.)
Warbikers cost 94 points for a MSU with just 2 bikers and a Nob with PK/BP. so again field 3 units of them and you eat all your FA slots and you have 282 points sunk into it. 1 casualty on a squad makes them take the morale check and possibly inflict more wounds on your bikers. 12 movement + turbo they will make it to the WK turn 2 but they have to get shot at or counter attacked first. Plus the WK can choose to target all his attacks on a single squad and kill them all before they get to swing meaning only 2 Squads make it at best. so 8 Nob PK attacks, 4 Hits, 3 wounds. (S9 on charge). subtract FNP and Invul and maybe 2 wounds actually inflicted.

And lastly

Meganob Trukkz: What ever will the WK do, 2 squads of Meganobz in trukkz costs 300pts. Turn 1 the WK blows up a single trukk and the Meganobz inside are now effectively neutralized for 2 more turns because they are going to have to walk. Lets say that the other trukk somehow gets through. 3 meganobz Vs WK. WK goes first, 2 wounds will hit and kill 2 Meganobz right off the bat. so now your down to 1 meganob vs a WK. 4 attacks 2 hits 1-2 wounds if he is lucky and WK gets his Invul/FNP so maybe 1 wound.



So in the end No, none of those work. Unless you are saying that you should double or triple the points investment to remove the WK which is exactly what the WK wants you to do so he can just Jump backwards and soak up more of your armies potential for another turn while the rest of the Eldar army eats your units alive.

Any other suggestions?

I come in peace. I didn't bring artillery. But I'm pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you mess with me, I'll kill you all

Marine General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal leaders 
   
 
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