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Can grav-weapons go through the projected void shields (from the fortification Void Shield Generator)?

I remember rules specifically wrote that grav weapons have no effect on buildings. But the nature of projected void shield is unclear, so how do you play it?

No, the rule are pretty clear in this case.

Grav has rules for what to do when you hit vehicles. Void Shield Projectors aren't vehicles though, they are a special rule so grav does nothing to it.

As the Void Shield is counted as being AV12, your opponent most likely will agree to treat the Void Shield as a vehicle.

Yay, one of my favourite headaches curtsy of Game Workshop.

One of the problems with this Rule, and there are a few, is that it never tells us to resolve the unique situation created by the Projected Void Shield Special Rule. Being intelligent people we can easily deduct that the attack is resolved in the same way as a vehicle, but this is not instruction telling us to treat the Projected Void Shield as if it was a vehicle. Thus we lack of permission to treat the Special Rule as a Vehicle for the purpose of resolving other Special Rules, unlike Buildings that have a line informing us of that same fact.

Talk with your opponent when it comes to the projections.

 CrownAxe wrote:
No, the rule are pretty clear in this case.

Grav has rules for what to do when you hit vehicles. Void Shield Projectors aren't vehicles though, they are a special rule so grav does nothing to it.

So you play void shields are immune to all damage? As penetration rolls only work against vehicles...

Does the Void Shield have a Hull Point to lose?

In any case, it's just one of those 'house-rule as you see fit'.

 FlingitNow wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:
No, the rule are pretty clear in this case.

Grav has rules for what to do when you hit vehicles. Void Shield Projectors aren't vehicles though, they are a special rule so grav does nothing to it.

So you play void shields are immune to all damage? As penetration rolls only work against vehicles...

Projected Void Shields tells you what to do with a penetrating hit or glancing hit. And it gives you AV12 to roll armor penetration.

Grav doesn't roll armor penetration. Grav doesn't cause penetrating hits or glancing hits either. Nothing about grav work with void shields.

 CrownAxe wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:
No, the rule are pretty clear in this case.

Grav has rules for what to do when you hit vehicles. Void Shield Projectors aren't vehicles though, they are a special rule so grav does nothing to it.

So you play void shields are immune to all damage? As penetration rolls only work against vehicles...

Projected Void Shields tells you what to do with a penetrating hit or glancing hit. And it gives you AV12 to roll armor penetration.

Grav doesn't roll armor penetration. Grav doesn't cause penetrating hits or glancing hits either. Nothing about grav work with void shields.

How do you know if you've scored a penetrating or glancing hit though?

 FlingitNow wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:
No, the rule are pretty clear in this case.

Grav has rules for what to do when you hit vehicles. Void Shield Projectors aren't vehicles though, they are a special rule so grav does nothing to it.

So you play void shields are immune to all damage? As penetration rolls only work against vehicles...

Projected Void Shields tells you what to do with a penetrating hit or glancing hit. And it gives you AV12 to roll armor penetration.

Grav doesn't roll armor penetration. Grav doesn't cause penetrating hits or glancing hits either. Nothing about grav work with void shields.

How do you know if you've scored a penetrating or glancing hit though?

It tells you it has av12. maybe you can roll a die and use that to figure it out.

 CrownAxe wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:
No, the rule are pretty clear in this case.

Grav has rules for what to do when you hit vehicles. Void Shield Projectors aren't vehicles though, they are a special rule so grav does nothing to it.

So you play void shields are immune to all damage? As penetration rolls only work against vehicles...

Projected Void Shields tells you what to do with a penetrating hit or glancing hit. And it gives you AV12 to roll armor penetration.

Grav doesn't roll armor penetration. Grav doesn't cause penetrating hits or glancing hits either. Nothing about grav work with void shields.

How do you know if you've scored a penetrating or glancing hit though?

It tells you it has av12. maybe you can roll a die and use that to figure it out.

How do I figure it out with a die roll? What process do I follow from the rules?

 FlingitNow wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:
No, the rule are pretty clear in this case.

Grav has rules for what to do when you hit vehicles. Void Shield Projectors aren't vehicles though, they are a special rule so grav does nothing to it.

So you play void shields are immune to all damage? As penetration rolls only work against vehicles...

Projected Void Shields tells you what to do with a penetrating hit or glancing hit. And it gives you AV12 to roll armor penetration.

Grav doesn't roll armor penetration. Grav doesn't cause penetrating hits or glancing hits either. Nothing about grav work with void shields.

How do you know if you've scored a penetrating or glancing hit though?

It tells you it has av12. maybe you can roll a die and use that to figure it out.

How do I figure it out with a die roll? What process do I follow from the rules?

I know your just trying to be ignorant on purpose just make a point about how i'm suppose to treat Void Shields like a vehicle for the rule to work. But even if you do Grav still doesn't work because Grav doesn't cause pens or glances and thus won't cause a collapse.

Without going through any of the rest of this little game you 2 are playing, crownaxe was correct at 1 point: grav never causes glancing nor penetrating hits, it mere causes a loss of hull point and immobilized result. Void shields are only removed by glancing or penetrating hits.

Yes void shields are treated as vehicles, so hitting with a grav weapon does prompt its rules, they just won't have any effect on the shield.

 CrownAxe wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:
No, the rule are pretty clear in this case.

Grav has rules for what to do when you hit vehicles. Void Shield Projectors aren't vehicles though, they are a special rule so grav does nothing to it.

So you play void shields are immune to all damage? As penetration rolls only work against vehicles...

Projected Void Shields tells you what to do with a penetrating hit or glancing hit. And it gives you AV12 to roll armor penetration.

Grav doesn't roll armor penetration. Grav doesn't cause penetrating hits or glancing hits either. Nothing about grav work with void shields.

How do you know if you've scored a penetrating or glancing hit though?

It tells you it has av12. maybe you can roll a die and use that to figure it out.

How do I figure it out with a die roll? What process do I follow from the rules?

I know your just trying to be ignorant on purpose just make a point about how i'm suppose to treat Void Shields like a vehicle for the rule to work. But even if you do Grav still doesn't work because Grav doesn't cause pens or glances and thus won't cause a collapse.

So we agree you treat it as a vehicle? Thus is unimportant for grav but makes a big difference for rules Rending, Haywire etc.

As you correctly point out that whilst the Void Shield is treated as a vehicle grav will never cause a penetrating or glancing hit to it and thus has no effect on the building.

The important thing to remember is that the void shield is treated as a vehicle when being shot at, however it has no hull points and is only destroyed by penetrating or glancing hits.

Not only does the rules not work the fluff doesn't make sense either for grav to work.

Grav causes mass density and causes the target to be crushed under its own weight. The void shield doesn't have any mass it's an energy field. Fluff wise grav will never have an effect on a void shield.

E=mc^2...

What if the 'futuristic' energy used in the Void Shield does not interact with the Higgs field?
Though I do wonder why we are talking about the fluff workings of a poorly written concept....

 FlingitNow wrote:

So we agree you treat it as a vehicle? Thus is unimportant for grav but makes a big difference for rules Rending, Haywire etc.

As you correctly point out that whilst the Void Shield is treated as a vehicle grav will never cause a penetrating or glancing hit to it and thus has no effect on the building.

The important thing to remember is that the void shield is treated as a vehicle when being shot at, however it has no hull points and is only destroyed by penetrating or glancing hits.

Nope I don't think it counts as a vehicle. Its not a vehicle, it doesn't tell us to treat it like a vehicle so why would i treat it like a vehicle?

Just because we use part of the vehicle rules for Void Shields doesn't make it a vehicle

 CrownAxe wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:

So we agree you treat it as a vehicle? Thus is unimportant for grav but makes a big difference for rules Rending, Haywire etc.

As you correctly point out that whilst the Void Shield is treated as a vehicle grav will never cause a penetrating or glancing hit to it and thus has no effect on the building.

The important thing to remember is that the void shield is treated as a vehicle when being shot at, however it has no hull points and is only destroyed by penetrating or glancing hits.

Nope I don't think it counts as a vehicle. Its not a vehicle, it doesn't tell us to treat it like a vehicle so why would i treat it like a vehicle?

Just because we use part of the vehicle rules for Void Shields doesn't make it a vehicle

So you play it as immune to all damage correct?

 FlingitNow wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:

So we agree you treat it as a vehicle? Thus is unimportant for grav but makes a big difference for rules Rending, Haywire etc.

As you correctly point out that whilst the Void Shield is treated as a vehicle grav will never cause a penetrating or glancing hit to it and thus has no effect on the building.

The important thing to remember is that the void shield is treated as a vehicle when being shot at, however it has no hull points and is only destroyed by penetrating or glancing hits.

Nope I don't think it counts as a vehicle. Its not a vehicle, it doesn't tell us to treat it like a vehicle so why would i treat it like a vehicle?

Just because we use part of the vehicle rules for Void Shields doesn't make it a vehicle

So you play it as immune to all damage correct?

No, I play it that since it says it has av12 I can use the rules for rolling armor penetration to determine if i cause pens and glances. I don't have to also say its counts a vehicle to make that work.

 CrownAxe wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:

So we agree you treat it as a vehicle? Thus is unimportant for grav but makes a big difference for rules Rending, Haywire etc.

As you correctly point out that whilst the Void Shield is treated as a vehicle grav will never cause a penetrating or glancing hit to it and thus has no effect on the building.

The important thing to remember is that the void shield is treated as a vehicle when being shot at, however it has no hull points and is only destroyed by penetrating or glancing hits.

Nope I don't think it counts as a vehicle. Its not a vehicle, it doesn't tell us to treat it like a vehicle so why would i treat it like a vehicle?

Just because we use part of the vehicle rules for Void Shields doesn't make it a vehicle

So you play it as immune to all damage correct?

No, I play it that since it says it has av12 I can use the rules for rolling armor penetration to determine if i cause pens and glances. I don't have to also say its counts a vehicle to make that work.

If you follow the rules for armour penetration how do you ever cause a penetrating or glancing hit?

 FlingitNow wrote:
If you follow the rules for armour penetration how do you ever cause a penetrating or glancing hit?

Seriously? Can you define how do NOT ever cause a Penetrating or Glancing Hit when following the rules for Armour Penetration?

Gravitation does NOT follow the rules for Armour Penetration, though, does it?

Charistoph wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:
If you follow the rules for armour penetration how do you ever cause a penetrating or glancing hit?

Seriously? Can you define how do NOT ever cause a Penetrating or Glancing Hit when following the rules for Armour Penetration?

Gravitation does NOT follow the rules for Armour Penetration, though, does it?

No graviton has no bearing on my point.

So you7 roll a d6 and compare it to nothing as CrownAxe is sayingthe AV is not the AV of a vehicle therefore it can not be used in the penetration roll.

 FlingitNow wrote:
So you roll a d6 and compare it to nothing as CrownAxe is saying the AV is not the AV of a vehicle therefore it can not be used in the penetration roll.

You are not rolling against the AV of a Vehicle when firing on a Building, either, yet you still use the Armour Penetration Rules.

Are you saying a Void Shield is different from even that?

Charistoph wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:
So you roll a d6 and compare it to nothing as CrownAxe is saying the AV is not the AV of a vehicle therefore it can not be used in the penetration roll.

You are not rolling against the AV of a Vehicle when firing on a Building, either, yet you still use the Armour Penetration Rules.

Are you saying a Void Shield is different from even that?

Buildings count as a vehicle for being shot at, which is why armour pen rolls work against them (as do things like Haywire).

We already agree that strict RAW void shields don't work so are already adding rules as we see fit to fix it. Why should I add both the system for armor penetration and counting as a vehicle when just adding the system for armor penetration will suffice?

 CrownAxe wrote:
We already agree that strict RAW void shields don't work so are already adding rules as we see fit to fix it. Why should I add both the system for armor penetration and counting as a vehicle when just adding the system for armor penetration will suffice?

Your interpretation of RaW doesn't work and you have come to an inconsistent HYWPI. But label your posts as HYWPI if you are saying that is what you are arguing.

My interpretation of the written text is that void shields are a building special rule so count as a building when being targeted so things like armour pen and haywire work. This is the only functional RaW interpretation.

Where in the rules does it say that a building's special rules are also buildings?

No where but if a space marine has a storm shield do we still not treat him as infantry?

 FlingitNow wrote:
No where but if a space marine has a storm shield do we still not treat him as infantry?

When I shoot at a SM w/ Storm Shield i'm shooting at the space marine, not his storm shield.

When a shooting at a unit withing the Projected Void Shield, I'm shooting at a special rule, not the building the rule is coming from.

 CrownAxe wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:
No where but if a space marine has a storm shield do we still not treat him as infantry?

When I shoot at a SM w/ Storm Shield i'm shooting at the space marine, not his storm shield.

When a shooting at a unit withing the Projected Void Shield, I'm shooting at a special rule, not the building the rule is coming from.

Well you're shooting at the unit until the building comes in and says wait a second do this instead.


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I mean I understand you really really want your building to be immune to haywire and melta etc but it just isn't.