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I'm just wondering if this would help balance imperial guard out, if a special order can be given out by senior officers Commissar's, and LC's, that would allow you to fire into troops engaged in close combat. Infantry would have to roll a d6 on a 4+ the enemy target is hit, and on a fail your own troops are hit. Scatter would work as normal.

Monstrous creature and GC's could be hit on a 3 and 2+ respectively.


This might help with some of the issues with the guard in general and wouldn't really have to change up their pricing. 

Doesn't fix any of the actual problems with the Guard, so no.

How does this help the Guard?

And there is no game mechanic for firing into combat currently so GW isnt going to make an exception here.

 Ratius wrote:
And there is no game mechanic for firing into combat currently so GW isnt going to make an exception here.

This idea might not be great, but why the hell does this matter?

Because GW have been loathe to break or even bend the core rule mechanics e.g. No charges from reserve, no ability to charge flyers, no firing into combat, scout having a minimum distance etc etc.
I cannot see them making an exception in this case, leopard spots n all that.....

UrsoerTheSquid wrote:
I'm just wondering if this would help balance imperial guard out, if a special order can be given out by senior officers Commissar's, and LC's, that would allow you to fire into troops engaged in close combat. Infantry would have to roll a d6 on a 4+ the enemy target is hit, and on a fail your own troops are hit. Scatter would work as normal.

Monstrous creature and GC's could be hit on a 3 and 2+ respectively.


This might help with some of the issues with the guard in general and wouldn't really have to change up their pricing. 

Ultimately, it's not really the core problem the IG face. In most instances in my experience, IG units are killed straight away and combat does not continue.

The bigger issue is that the core unit they're built around is simply too weak to have any meaningful value with the vastly trumped up scale 40k has garnered itself, and, just as critically, it's a shooting focused army that's getting (in some cases, quite dramatically) outshot by generalist armies that typically also have far more mobility and deployment method options.

 Ratius wrote:
Because GW have been loathe to break or even bend the core rule mechanics e.g. No charges from reserve, no ability to charge flyers, no firing into combat, scout having a minimum distance etc etc.
I cannot see them making an exception in this case, leopard spots n all that.....

Again, so what? What does what GW does matter to fan concepts? They don't read these forums, so that logic means nothing on this forum is valid.

Not sure how many other ways you want me to say it so I'll bow out of this one.....

Or better yet, you can just say why it matters when it's FANS suggesting it, not GW.

Guard's weakness isn't close combat. Their weakness are that they are slow in a game that is about capturing objectives and most of their units are overcosted

Thanks for the replies! I know that it's not ever going to happen. I just think that from a fluff perspective it kinda makes sense, I can't see any guard commander (except perhaps straken) who would say "well those men are locked in combat with a riptide they are way more valuable then killing that thing, better not fire on them."

I could even see the summary execution rule coming into play as well as some men may not want to fire on comrades. But this is where things start to get bogged down so I'll stop. 

I would rather field a few extra wyverens

Eh, just bring krazypantsoff if you want to shoot into the ongoing combat the one round your pathetic goobers are stuck in before they're all dead.

I played space marines the other day. Here's how it went.

"Hey I'm gonna shoot this AP3 large blast at your bikers."

"No wait I get to Jink. Wait, my army has army wide FNP. That stacks with regular FNP so it is 4+. Ok no wounds. Now I'm gonna shoot. My whole army is preferred enemy."

"Wait I thought you get super duper FNP"

"No cus formation. Whole army also gets preferred enemy except the ones who get twin linked. Ok so that's lots of hits n your guys are dead. But there's some left so here's my whirlwinds, I've got three in a squadron."

"Oh I thought only guard got to do squadrons"

" yeah no and since it's *such* a disadvantage we get just a couple extra perks. Here I'll shoot my large blast at your guardsmen."

"Hey sweet you missed"

"Nope cus I took these other guys it's all twin linked. I hit that time."

"Well you didn't wound all of them..."

"Yeah so it's also shred. Mumble mumble tax units formations mumble. And let's see, end of the turn I have all six objectives everything is objective secured. Your turn!"

the_scotsman wrote:
Eh, just bring krazypantsoff if you want to shoot into the ongoing combat the one round your pathetic goobers are stuck in before they're all dead.

I played space marines the other day. Here's how it went.

"Hey I'm gonna shoot this AP3 large blast at your bikers."

"No wait I get to Jink. Wait, my army has army wide FNP. That stacks with regular FNP so it is 4+. Ok no wounds. Now I'm gonna shoot. My whole army is preferred enemy."

"Wait I thought you get super duper FNP"

"No cus formation. Whole army also gets preferred enemy except the ones who get twin linked. Ok so that's lots of hits n your guys are dead. But there's some left so here's my whirlwinds, I've got three in a squadron."

"Oh I thought only guard got to do squadrons"

" yeah no and since it's *such* a disadvantage we get just a couple extra perks. Here I'll shoot my large blast at your guardsmen."

"Hey sweet you missed"

"Nope cus I took these other guys it's all twin linked. I hit that time."

"Well you didn't wound all of them..."

"Yeah so it's also shred. Mumble mumble tax units formations mumble. And let's see, end of the turn I have all six objectives everything is objective secured. Your turn!"

Um other than the Stacking FNp, obsec and shred I have no idea what your opponent is referring too. Army wide preferred enemy? Everything being twin-Linked? Are you sure your opponent wasn't making stuff up?

Apparently the Gladius strike force grants you:

-army wide Obsec

-500ish points of free transports

-ultramarine CTs (which are Twin-Linked for one type of unit, Preferred Enemy for everyone else) on top of your other CTs

And on top of that he had a formation that made a full squad of whirlwinds into Wyverns that fired large blasts.

First time I've been legitimately turn 2 turn tabled. The amount of free buffs you get for running the "spend all your money at GW" formation is frankly disgusting.

Ratius wrote:Because GW have been loathe to break or even bend the core rule mechanics e.g. No charges from reserve, no ability to charge flyers, no firing into combat, scout having a minimum distance etc etc.
I cannot see them making an exception in this case, leopard spots n all that.....

The Skyhammer Annhilation Force would like to have a word with you.

the_scotsman wrote:
Apparently the Gladius strike force grants you:

-army wide Obsec

Only the Demi-Company gets Objective Secured, not the entire Gladius.

the_scotsman wrote:
-500ish points of free transports

Only if you take a full Battle Company (i.e. two Demi-Companies.) This carries the tax of taking approximatelyan entire army of sub-par units. And then what do you have? At best, a bunch of Razorbacks. Woo, AV11 and 3 hullpoints. Scary!

the_scotsman wrote:
-ultramarine CTs (which are Twin-Linked for one type of unit, Preferred Enemy for everyone else) on top of your other CTs

The Demi-Company can use Tactical Doctrine once a game. That means during one turn, every model in the Demi-Company can reroll hit rolls with a result of 1 in shooting and assault. Tactical squads (three must be taken for the Demi-Company) get to reroll all misses, not just 1s. The Gladius Strikeforce get to use each of the three doctrines (Tactical, Assault, Devastator) once per game in addition to the one time the Demi-Company gets to use the Tactical Doctrine. Far from game-breaking - consider the IG orders system or Tau Markerlights. Doctrines are similar, they just don't require a roll.

the_scotsman wrote:
And on top of that he had a formation that made a full squad of whirlwinds into Wyverns that fired large blasts.

Are you referring to the Suppression Force (a unit of Whirlwinds and a unit of Land Speeders) or just a squadron of 3 Whirlwinds? If it's the former, just kill the Land Speeders. They're AV10 all around and have only two hullpoints. If the latter, just kill one of the three Whirlwinds in the quadron. They're only AV11 on the front and side and have 3 hullpoints. Not exactly difficult to pop either of these vehicles.

I"m not trying to suggest the Gladius is not powerful - it is. But it's not unbeatable. Smart play and knowing what your opponent can do will help a lot.

I don't think he said it was unbeatable. He is just saying that the level that an army of even "subpar units" plays at in a recently updated codex is vastly superior to anything the Guard can field as a force.

His narrative of the game he played was supposed to demonstrate the frustration of players who's codexes have been left behind this edition, and shows that other armies seem to be encroaching on the "Imperial Guard's thing".

If you're trying to squeeze as much juice out of your rules as possible... well, live by the sword, die by the sword.

I'd say this is karmic payback for arguing that immobilized skimmers should be able to jink

 Ignatius wrote:
I don't think he said it was unbeatable. He is just saying that the level that an army of even "subpar units" plays at in a recently updated codex is vastly superior to anything the Guard can field as a force.

His narrative of the game he played was supposed to demonstrate the frustration of players who's codexes have been left behind this edition, and shows that other armies seem to be encroaching on the "Imperial Guard's thing".

This is just part of playing 40k due to how the codices are updated one at a time instead of as a lot at the start of an edition. There's not much to be done about it, especially if you're not keen on allies. I'm not keen on them myself - I just happened to pick an army 15 years ago that has stayed relatively competitive for the duration.

That said, I've heard that a small Inquisition detachment can do wonders for expanding the utility of a guard force. Additionally, any Gladius is going to be heavy with MEQ. Pop their fragile transports and move in with a squadron of Banewolves.

I hope we get a formation that allows for free transports. Free Chimera and I'll love life. The problem I am running into with guard lately, isn't so much the speed, but that the newer codex unit prices are much lower. This allows them to bring more. And they all have special rules. While gaining increased firepower.

I'm sure we'll get our turn. I hope guard do not lose what little of their character they have left. They are supposed to be ponderous, numerous, and relentless when at war.