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One of the reasons it took me a while to start trying other games over Warhammer Fantasy and 40k was that I loved the huge breadth of background. I've always been able to read a novel, or some wiki entry or have a long discussion about backstory if I didn't have anything to paint or didn't have anyone to play with at the time. To me the background of a game is an intrinsic part of the hobby that is mini wargaming. Warmachine and Hordes are getting there, there is a lot to the setting and they've even started releasing short stories and novels, and I do enjoy it a lot. But I am wondering if other games I haven't noticed have such breadth of background?

There's actually more nostalgia and rewrites than there really is breadth of background for Warhammer.

But few games currently have as much simply because few games have existed for as long.

The only one off the top of my head that really has the same breadth is Battletech, which hasn't been rewritten quite as much. But as a lesson in development, Battletech is a game that very much let itself be trapped in its own gigantic history, and only now is trying to get out from under it.

Warzone might have had a similar scope. However it's died and come back multiple times, although it seems to exist outside gaming as a comic and book series too.

Battletech (as suggested above)

The Hobbit/Lord of the Rings

Anything about World War II (and I guess WWI now)

but that's about it tabletop wise

Well, it's kind of cheating, but you'd have to have a lot to compete with the Batman miniatures game. I appreciate that it's not a universe built around a game, but the game is most definitely inspired and informed by the setting; the thing that impressed me about it from the start was how much the various characters did act just like their source material (be that comic, film or game) counterparts. Definitely worth checking out if you want a wealth of material to draw on and immerse yourself it, it's hard to beat 75 years of comics, multiple film franchises and TV shows and even videogames!

LotR also has a head start, and X-wing too.

WWII. I think only Star Wars has as much written about it.

If you look at Napoleonics there are more than 2,000 books about Napoleon himself alone, on top of which there are many thousands of other history books about the period.

When we come to Napoleonic fiction there are various series such as Sharpe, Ramage, Hornblower, Aubrey and Maturin, plus one-off books like War And Peace (arguably one of the greatest novels ever written), The Gun, and others.

That's just books. There are of course many films and TV programmes about Napoleonics, such as Waterloo, The Duellist, and dramatisations of a number of novels.

You can basically say any historical has all of human history behind it, which is fine. But considering he's talking about a purely fictional setting, let's not go in that route.

 Vertrucio wrote:
There's actually more nostalgia and rewrites than there really is breadth of background for Warhammer.

But few games currently have as much simply because few games have existed for as long.

This.

Anything that also has a RPG would be a good contender though. So Warzone, Warmachine and Infinity (that I know of).

Warzone, well Mutant Chronicles but they are the same thing, has had its very own (bad) film with Ron Perlman and John Malkovich.....

 Vertrucio wrote:
You can basically say any historical has all of human history behind it, which is fine. But considering he's talking about a purely fictional setting, let's not go in that route.

Why not? Why should we not consider actuality alongside fiction? Is it less dramatic, detailed or realistic?

No, because people get butthurt like you are and feel excluded. Except that the OP clearly talks about a game that's as future fantasy fiction as possible.

The key word being fiction.

I love and play historicals, but they are not for everyone. That's a sad fact, but that's also beyond the scope of this thread.

Talking historicals in this thread would be like someone going into the historicals forum and answering a question with a response about how some fictional space cat general was clearly better than Napoleon.

Batman and Star Wars games (X-Wing, Armada, Imperial Assault, etc) have more source material than 40k could ever dream of. Heroclix as well, if you can handle their God-awful minis. And Star Trek. And Terminator. And Cthulhu Wars and related games. You have a ton of options that have deeper stories than 40k. Not to say 40k has bad background. They did Anakin's fall to the Sith in the Horus Heresy better than Lucas did in SW. They just happen to have a smaller amount of background than all of those other game options.

I don't know, 40k has had hundreds of novels and short stories out over the years, plus 7 editions worth of supplements and codices, in addition to hundreds of editions of white dwarf (and other things like inferno, audio books, collected art books) that have added to the background. When you take all of that into account (and allow for duplication of material) I think it would give most things a good run for their money, and I doubt there is much that would massively eclipse it.

Yeah, but how much of that is actually good today?

Sadly a lot of the 40k novels don't add much, they are just bolter porn (even the HH series is no bogged down with filler stories that don't advance the overarching plot and the HH is now seen as a setting not a story).
And really how much of the fluff in the rulebooks and codexes over the last 3 editions has been new and how much of it has just been rewriting old stuff?

40k has a TON of material to read, but sadly there is little depth to it outside a couple of their better writers.

Battletech came to mind instantly, but it was mentioned previously. Heavy Gear too.

 JamesY wrote:
I don't know, 40k has had hundreds of novels and short stories out over the years, plus 7 editions worth of supplements and codices, in addition to hundreds of editions of white dwarf (and other things like inferno, audio books, collected art books) that have added to the background. When you take all of that into account (and allow for duplication of material) I think it would give most things a good run for their money, and I doubt there is much that would massively eclipse it.

Two of the things I mentioned, Batman and Heroclix (involving all super heroes) have monthly books released. Multiple issues monthly. Like 4 different batman issues: dark knight, batman and robin, detective comics, and Batman. And arkham. And a ton of others. And they've been going since the late '40s continuously. 40k can't even come close to it, even with a hundred books. That comparison is like my wallet vs Donald Trump's.

(Sigh) Why can't we get a real Marvel miniatures game. Talk about back story and stuff to read? Hard to beat.
:(
I'd love to assemble my own team and duke it out against other teams. But alas...

 timetowaste85 wrote:

 JamesY wrote:
I don't know, 40k has had hundreds of novels and short stories out over the years, plus 7 editions worth of supplements and codices, in addition to hundreds of editions of white dwarf (and other things like inferno, audio books, collected art books) that have added to the background. When you take all of that into account (and allow for duplication of material) I think it would give most things a good run for their money, and I doubt there is much that would massively eclipse it.

Two of the things I mentioned, Batman and Heroclix (involving all super heroes) have monthly books released. Multiple issues monthly. Like 4 different batman issues: dark knight, batman and robin, detective comics, and Batman. And arkham. And a ton of others. And they've been going since the late '40s continuously. 40k can't even come close to it, even with a hundred books. That comparison is like my wallet vs Donald Trump's.

Yeah I'm aware of the scale of batman mate, and it's longevity. Read my post again, I said hundreds of book, not a hundred, what's on the shelf at present is only a fraction of what has been published. I also said there isn't much that would massively eclipse it. Much. Not nothing.

How's Malifaux holding up? That seemed to have some very solid and expansive world building.

I can't speak for Battletech but I think Star Wars dwarfs pretty much anything out there.

Buttery Commissar wrote:How's Malifaux holding up? That seemed to have some very solid and expansive world building.

They did recently release an RPG supplement and their monthly ezine usually has a short story or two. They'be also got a new game coming at some point that deals more with the Earth side of the Breach, which is set to be basically WW1 history with added Malifauxness.

MWHistorian wrote:(Sigh) Why can't we get a real Marvel miniatures game. Talk about back story and stuff to read? Hard to beat.
:(
I'd love to assemble my own team and duke it out against other teams. But alas...

It's happening at some point. Knight Models are working on a Supers game that in theory will encompass the DC and Marvel characters (whether that's officially or just a 'these systems are totally not compatible wink wink' setup). They've got a head start on the minis, so the range should be there by the time the game hits.

At which point, Avengers vs Justice League is a thing that will be happening on my table.

 Vertrucio wrote:
Yeah, but how much of that is actually good today?

Unfortunately not much, but there is some. Rob Sanders' books are good, he knows how to structure and pace a plot. ADB too, but I am starting to see a little too much repetition of phrases and scenes (if I read 'crenulated blade' or 'heavenly dance' again...). I re-read alot of my old boxtree gw books over summer. Sad and refreshing all at the same time.

If you are looking specifically for fantasy games, Hordes of The Things allows the use of any fantasy or science fantasy background up to the tech level of John Carter of Mars (radium rifles, air cars, and so on.)

This opens pretty much all of fantasy literature for your reading and gaming pleasure.

 jonolikespie wrote:
I can't speak for Battletech but I think Star Wars dwarfs pretty much anything out there.

Depends.

Given how Disney just dropped the entire EU, it is currently undergoing the biggest rewrite/retcon in the history of rewrites/retcons.

A lot of stuff you see in Star Wars games like X-Wing, for example the Crimson Empire stuff like red interceptors, Carnor Jax, Soontir Fel, E-Wings or TIE-Phantoms, etc.., guys like Dash Rendar or Mara Jade, Thrawn, etc, etc., just got effectively Disney-deleted. Anything not in the actual movies or a Disney series like Rebels basically has the status of fan-fiction atm.

Vertrucio wrote:But considering he's talking about a purely fictional setting

Is he?

the OP clearly talks about a game that's as future fantasy fiction as possible.

Where?

No, because people get butthurt like you are

Nice.

Wonderwolf wrote:

 jonolikespie wrote:
I can't speak for Battletech but I think Star Wars dwarfs pretty much anything out there.

Depends.

Given how Disney just dropped the entire EU, it is currently undergoing the biggest rewrite/retcon in the history of rewrites/retcons.

A lot of stuff you see in Star Wars games like X-Wing, for example the Crimson Empire stuff like red interceptors, Carnor Jax, Soontir Fel, E-Wings or TIE-Phantoms, etc.., guys like Dash Rendar or Mara Jade, Thrawn, etc, etc., just got effectively Disney-deleted. Anything not in the actual movies or a Disney series like Rebels basically has the status of fan-fiction atm.

Not Disney - Lucas had already kicked the EU to the curb.

And spat on the corpse of the Original Universe with his revisions.

The Auld Grump - Han shot first!

*EDIT* Traveller has a long history - including one alternate timeline, and has had many wargames over the years.

If you want some great background material written specifically for a wargame, Warzone has a lot of material available online for free. AT-43 also had some great background, but it didn't get very far. DZC looks promising so far, and the fluff is well written.

Star Wars, Star Trek, and the other big media series are great, too, if you are into them.

Lord of the rings basically wins this thread.

It's happening at some point. Knight Models are working on a Supers game that in theory will encompass the DC and Marvel characters (whether that's officially or just a 'these systems are totally not compatible wink wink' setup). They've got a head start on the minis, so the range should be there by the time the game hits.

At which point, Avengers vs Justice League is a thing that will be happening on my table.

That's the best thing I've heard all week.

I will say that PP is putting out some great books. They're attracting great writers from outside their fold. The Butcher novel written by Dan Well is amazing and Mr. Wells has a long history of writing psycho very well. Into the Storm is a great intro into Warmachine's world. Written by NYT Bestselling author, Larry Corriea. Great stuff. NQ magazine always has detailed fluff.

Warzone, Warmachine, Battletech off course