Mandrakes+hero+webway portal

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**flamingkillamajig**

So I was mulling around with this idea while at the local GW. Keep in mind I'm about to re-enter to 7th and have been gone since 5th. That said if you hold the mandrakes back in reserve (they can infiltrate) and you deep strike them with a character leading them using a webway portal (no scatter deep strike) then you can move them into cover just about anywhere on the board you wish. As I said before there is no scatter and mandrakes have stealth and shrouded so we're talking about a 2+ cover save. Mandrakes have move through cover so they auto-pass DT rolls. The only issue is the leader with them still takes DT but with the 2+ inv. save till it fails wargear I should be ok. I may check to see if an archon with huskblade and blast pistol/blaster is better or if I should do a succubus with an archite glaive. I'm guessing the huskblade and blaster/blast pistol is the better option as it forces the opponent to come at me even more while I just shoot at vehicles or squads of infantry with 20 str 4 ap 4 shots with bs 4 and soul blaze for what little extra bonus it does.

I'm not saying this is a death star or anything but it should be able to handle quite a few shooting spam armies alright. This actually seems geared to work towards fire warriors in particular and maybe guardsmen. Sure template weapons can un-entrench these guys but i'll try killing them before they get too close.

I'd have just infiltrated the mandrakes but the issue is I get 12" out of sight or 18" in sight and 18" is about the range of their guns. This means I'd have to move around and worry about getting shot in the process and losing them for no good reason. I plan on reading up the rules and using this combo fairly soon. I may use a couple units of 10 (20 mandrakes total) in a 2k points battle if possible. Hopefully the mandrakes protect the archon as well. Sadly I will have to keep him attached to the unit if I want that super nice 2+ cover save.

It's still a good chunk of points and it's no grotesque unit coming down via webway portal but it's still a lot of fun.

**vipoid**

Sorry, but I'm struggling to see what this will really accomplish.

You're talking about 355pts minimum (and that's without giving the Archon any wargear other than the Shadowfield and WWP).

For that, you get a unit that puts out a pitiful amount of firepower, and will get slaughtered by any flamer or melee unit.

The trouble is, S4 AP4 just isn't useful. Especially for such a high investment. It can do some damage to Fire Warriors, but even then you're only looking at 81pts worth, compared to the 355pts the unit cost. Moreover, since Tau Firewarriors outrange you, it seems they could easily just waddle out of your range and shoot you with impunity.

In terms of IG, I'd have thought any infantry worth a damn would be in Chimeras.

In terms of the 2+ cover save, that *might* be useful. Might. The problem is, you're spending 355+pts to put a squad in or near the enemy - where their Ignores Cover stuff is likely to be concentrated. And, Tau and IG both have a lot of stuff that Ignores Cover (and with much better range than mere flamers).

It might be fun, but from a tactical standpoint, it just seems like throwing good points after bad.

**oldzoggy**

I like it. It not sure if it is any good without allies, but I like it.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Its way more fun then the usual "suprize" flamers out of the portal :/

**flamingkillamajig**

A unit of 10 mandrakes+archon+webway portal is 215 points minimum so I don't know where you're getting your math. It's extra wargear that'd cost and I'm sure we can figure out what would be and what wouldn't be effective.

**vipoid**

flamingkillamajig wrote:
A unit of 10 mandrakes+archon+webway portal is 215 points minimum so I don't know where you're getting your math. It's extra wargear that'd cost and I'm sure we can figure out what would be and what wouldn't be effective.

You did mention Shadowfield, which would bring it to 255.

But, yeah, I don't know where I got the extra 100 from.

**flamingkillamajig**

vipoid wrote:
flamingkillamajig wrote:
A unit of 10 mandrakes+archon+webway portal is 215 points minimum so I don't know where you're getting your math. It's extra wargear that'd cost and I'm sure we can figure out what would be and what wouldn't be effective.

You did mention Shadowfield, which would bring it to 255.

But, yeah, I don't know where I got the extra 100 from.

Would 215 pts make the idea a little more do-able then? Personally I think it would be a fun experiment if nothing else. I'd probably skip out on the shadowfield and instead use a blaster or huskblade or something. Still a bit costly but not nearly as bad as the supposed cost you mentioned.

**vipoid**

I think it's still too costly for what you're getting.

**Solar Shock**

I agree it seems a little too costly for the benefit of picking the terrain they will spend a lot of the game in.

The cost of the archon and SF is almost the cost of a second unit of mandrakes and generally when that happens taking a second unit is almost always better unless the character is providing some serious buffs - to which I don't think precision DS is one.

You could stick them in a raider, DS the raider have them disembark and more than likely they will still make it to the terrain in question. Then you also have a free raider to scoot about in, grabbing objectives and BLOS other stuff/prevent charge paths.

I have had similar thoughts about how useful pinpoint DS can be, but in reality it does add quite a price hike to the unit in question and thus is only really useful when you get a lot in return - (pinpoint AP3 flamers, grotesques....) With those you either get your return from an instant killing of your intended target or through forcing a hard hitting durable melee unit right into the middle of their army.

**flamingkillamajig**

@Solar Shock: I suppose that's a good point but my worries for raider aren't just deep strike but possible issues hitting into terrain and something bad happening. This doesn't happen with the archon version of this. That said you are right that with all the gear you add you're probably gonna be 60 pts higher and all you get is pinpoint deepstrike. That's unfortunate as I was really hoping this tactic would be fun.

All that said the archons could count for HQ's you take so I dunno.

Once again this is me just coming up with ideas after just coming back into 40k since I left during 5th edition. A lot has changed that's for sure.

Are the passengers able to move out of the open-topped transport after deep strike though and shoot just fine? I remember in 5th you could run but you couldn't move after deep strike unless the rules got changed. In the case of mandrakes and archon you are where you want to be and only have to worry about shooting.

**BoomWolf**

A second unit is far superior to the accurate DS, if only for that one time where you face a horde and just need the extra shots.