Switch Theme:

I don't like 30k... And I don't know why.  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in ca
Dakka Veteran






Hi people. So recently I came uppon a realization : most players around me seem to like 30k, but I seem to strongly dislike it. Maybe it's the fact that the CSM don't look like a bunch of warped chaos fiend in power armour. Maybe it's because it seems like an all marine vs marine game (I'm a proud defender of Xenos political correctness). Maybe it's the fluff: I've always felt that 30k was more like a space opera/ drama / greek tragedy than a grimdark setting.

What's your opinion on 30k ?

 
   
Made in pl
Stalwart Space Marine




It's kind of high end of hobby as it really shines when you go big both getting rather expensive figurines and have very good painting skills as badly painted 30k is an eye sore. Imho it's a good replacment for old and outdated apocalypse and gives new level of personalised troops of your legion/ad/daemon/sa instead of just the same stuff painted differently. It's deffo IoM attractive over the people from outside of that group so totaly understand if it isn't your cup of tea.
   
Made in us
Abel





Washington State

I like that 30K is a tragedy. It's the time of Legends striding through the galaxy and grinding all opposition under foot, and just on the eve of Ultimate Victory, treachery at Isstvan. The once great Empire of Humanity ripped apart by civil war. You get to see the roots of 40K and where the Space Marine Chapters came from. Pretty exciting stuff to me!

What is so appealing to me is that the "artifacts" in 40K are so commonplace in 30K. There is no "lost technology", and actually, there is "forbidden" technology being used. You actually get to use SM Tanks, not Land Raiders, SM aircraft, and a whole bunch of stuff that is only hinted at in 40K, but common place in 30K. You lose out on some of the "newer" technology of 40K. /shrug

Now on the other hand, it's 30K so it's only Legion on Legion. It gets pretty boring after a couple games playing MEQ vs. MEQ. Things are a bit different in that no one has ATSKNF; Stubborn is kinda common, and Fearless is pretty rare. It makes Standards all the more useful, and suddenly, leadership/morale checks become critical to the game. Space Marines play way differently when they don't have ATSKNF.

The vehicle variants are what really piqued my interest in 30K. The Anvillus and Kharybdis pattern drop pods, the Land Raider Proteus, Contemptor Dreadnoughts, Sicaran Predators, and my favorite #1 30K vehicle: The Legion Fellblade.

It's totally understandable that some people would not like 30K. The design aesthetic is way different from 40K. Forgeworld did a great job making models that are both familiar to 40K, yet different enough to make you go "Huh?". You pretty much have to play 2,000+ points. a 2,000 point 30K game looks and feels like a 40K 1,500 point game. To really open up 30K, you should play it at 2,500+ points. At 2,500 points, you see the Legions in their true light, and not just "expensive and crappy 40K Space Marines". As noted above, it's also all MEQ vs. MEQ, and there isn't all that much AP3 weaponry except in specialist squads.

Kara Sloan shoots through Time and Design Space for a Negative Play Experience  
   
Made in gb
Worthiest of Warlock Engineers






preston

3+, 4+, 3+ or 4+, 4+, 3+
With very little variation.
I can see why you may find it boring.

Free from GW's tyranny and the hobby is looking better for it
DR:90-S++G+++M++B++I+Pww205++D++A+++/sWD146R++T(T)D+
 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 master of ordinance wrote:
3+, 4+, 3+ or 4+, 4+, 3+
With very little variation.
I can see why you may find it boring.


So, just like 40k.

Also, let's not forget that 30k also has non-MEQ lists now.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/11/17 17:36:37


There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
Thane of Dol Guldur




 Warzoner wrote:
Hi people. So recently I came uppon a realization : most players around me seem to like 30k, but I seem to strongly dislike it. Maybe it's the fact that the CSM don't look like a bunch of warped chaos fiend in power armour. Maybe it's because it seems like an all marine vs marine game (I'm a proud defender of Xenos political correctness). Maybe it's the fluff: I've always felt that 30k was more like a space opera/ drama / greek tragedy than a grimdark setting.

What's your opinion on 30k ?


I like 30k mainly because the balance is better than 40k, and there is no real codex churn. New books may add rules, but they don't make older rules irrelevant.

As far as the Marine vs. Marine thing goes, IMO its a misconception. You have Marines, Ad Mech, Solar Auxilia, some kind of army list for militias (never seen this), and Knights. Chaos Daemons are used. Orks and Eldar were around, so they can be used using the 40k codex. If someone wanted to play me with Necrons or Tyranids, I wouldn't have a problem (can just say its an early Tomb Awaekening or Hivefleet Arrival if fluff is cared about).

Only problem with mixing 30k and 40k is, and it took me a while to realize this, is that 40k codex armies are tpyically more powerful than anything 30k has to offer, at least Marines-wise, with the possible exception of the 3 or 4 most powerful Legions (being Alpha Legion, Ravenguard, Iron Hands, and possibly Imperial Fists).



This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/17 17:57:50


 
   
Made in us
Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord




Inside Yvraine

"Adeptus Mechanicus, Solar Auxilia and Imperial Militia and Cults don't exist."

Why do people continue to believe this meme?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/17 18:08:36


 
   
Made in gb
Worthiest of Warlock Engineers






preston

 BlaxicanX wrote:
"Adeptus Mechanicus, Solar Auxilia and Imperial Militia and Cults don't exist."

Why do people continue to believe this meme?

Because 99/100 when you look at a 30K game you will only see Marines vs Marines

Free from GW's tyranny and the hobby is looking better for it
DR:90-S++G+++M++B++I+Pww205++D++A+++/sWD146R++T(T)D+
 
   
Made in us
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator





Pittsburgh, PA, USA

I don't dislike 30K. In fact, I think the Mechanicum models and fluff are some of the best work that's come out of GW since... like, ever. And it's not even that it's good, it's consistently good. However, I do not understand the infatuation with the different Marks of armor, or the need to explore every crevice of detail In the fluff. I think a good game setting should leave a lot left unsaid, and at this point, there are so many varied hands in the process of writing HH background, that some of it is starting to stray into the absurd.

tl;dr Mechanicum is sex on a stick, the story of the Heresy was better when some of it was left to the imagination.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/17 18:29:39


   
Made in us
Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord




Inside Yvraine

That's the fault of your local meta. I can say the same for 40K.
   
Made in gb
Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God






Inside your mind, corrupting the pathways

There are just not enough space marines.

   
Made in us
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator





Pittsburgh, PA, USA

 BlaxicanX wrote:
That's the fault of your local meta. I can say the same for 40K.


You're saying it's the fault of the meta in a setting that goes into explicit detail about 20 separate Legions of Space Marines, but also happens to have the Solar Auxilia and Mechanicum? So it's the player's fault that the designers have explicitly said that this was a game about brother against brother, and that xenos would have only a minor role to play in the fluff and rules?

#notsureifserious

   
Made in gb
Worthiest of Warlock Engineers






preston

TLDR, there is waayyyy toomuch Marine pr0n within 30K

Free from GW's tyranny and the hobby is looking better for it
DR:90-S++G+++M++B++I+Pww205++D++A+++/sWD146R++T(T)D+
 
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan






Being a giant fan of scratch building/kit bashing, user created fluff or background story, unique named characters, etc. 30k feels like it is very ridged in its fluff, its modeling, its characters, etc. The 30k story is really cool and is interesting to learn about but I find the well established canon to take away from the making and narrative aspect of the hobby. With the Horus Heresy being fairly well fleshed out (particularly the Legions), it makes having unique user created stuff tends to draw the ire of the "fans" who like to beat you over the head with the facts of the setting instead of letting somebody be creative.

I enjoy 40k (particularly Orks) because I can make up my own narrative, characters, custom models, etc. I get to enjoy making a Nob Tankbusta with a bomb with shark fins for a Rokkit Launcha or have a Tau Cadre with a unique color scheme. Not having to worry about using the wrong armor trim color or model of bolt pistol for an unnamed Space Marine Sergeant. Its not that I personally care if its "wrong" but I don't want to hear from random people that its not what the fluff says it should be. I even hear it occasionally about Ork stuff "the whole thinking it so it happens part was removed from the codex" and I just want to face palm so hard that it hits the back of my skull.

"Hold my shoota, I'm goin in"
Armies (7th edition points)
7000+ Points Death Skullz
4000 Points
+ + 3000 Points "The Fiery Heart of the Emperor"
3500 Points "Void Kraken" Space Marines
3000 Points "Bard's Booze Cruise" 
   
Made in us
Shas'ui with Bonding Knife






Xenos were a large part of 30K as a whole. Some of them we haven't seen yet I don't think (waiting on a full Megarachnids army to show up).

The 30K Universe is set up predominantly around Space Marines fighting humans who don't want to conform to the emperor's ways. So, the legions just go out and kill all of them and bring the planet into compliance.

All that said, yes, right now, 30K is just a Space Marine vs. Space Marine game, but it's only a very, very small sample (including all of the FW models + Betrayal at Calth). If BaC sells well and people start wanting to play 30K a good bit, I'm expecting to see the Horus Heresy tabletop rulebooks showing up under GW's logo and being sold on GW's website and at GW shops. And, I'm pretty sure they won't limit it just to space marines. I have a feeling they are going to bring out all the Xenos that were encountered during the time of the Horus Heresy as well.

SG

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/17 21:11:30


40K - T'au Empire
Kill Team - T'au Empire, Death Guard
Warhammer Underworlds - Garrekā€™s Reavers

*** I only play for fun. I do not play competitively. *** 
   
Made in us
Thane of Dol Guldur




Modeling-wise, FWIW, almost my entire 30k army is made using 40k models. I play HH games with 3 other dudes, and each one of us is the same way...one of the dudes has a couple of FW models, but not many, and they are for an AdMech army. I did but the BaC box, so I will soon be the only one with technically correct PA (if Mark IV can be said to be technically correct for any legion, which TBH I don't know, because I don't really care so much).

I know there are some mythical purists who only want 30k Marines in the correct Mark armor. I haven't met any of these creatures in Real Life, but if I ever do, then Time Travel.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/17 21:28:32


 
   
Made in gb
Thunderhawk Pilot Dropping From Orbit





 Warzoner wrote:
Maybe it's the fact that the CSM don't look like a bunch of warped chaos fiend in power armour.


That's one of the problems I have with *40k*, outside of Dark Vengeance the rank and file CSM mini's aren't really warped either unless you count the odd horn or topknot, at least in 30k that's acceptable since the majority of the traitors have yet to actually dedicate themselves to Chaos.




 
   
Made in gb
Mysterious Techpriest







 Warzoner wrote:
Hi people. So recently I came uppon a realization : most players around me seem to like 30k, but I seem to strongly dislike it.


Oh dear.

Please report to warhammer world with your wallet for attitude re-adjustment.




I play Ordo Reductor and my faction wouldn't exist if it weren't for xenos forces resisting the great crusade. (!)

Most of my models are mechanicum, imperial knights and an allied-detachment-worth of vanilla legion mari.. sorry, Muh-reens.
I'm looking at my stormtroopers and thinking "militia/cult or tech-thralls?", and i'm going for some solar auxillia after i've got a legio cybernetica force.
Fyi; You can take a daemon army compete with demi-LOW hq choice if you're forging that narrative hard enough!

In short, i'm loving the variety in the HH and in my experience, this myth of the HH being a marine based circle-jerk is exactly that.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-px27tzAtVwZpZ4ljopV2w "ashtrays and teacups do not count as cover"
"jack of all trades, master of none; certainly better than a master of one"
The Ordo Reductor - the guy's who make wonderful things like the Landraider Achillies, but can't use them in battle..  
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets






Eh, I'm not a big fan of it. For essentially the price, I find 40k's atmosphere to be much more appealing and that's really why I play Warhammer.

~1.5k
Successful Trades: Ashrog (1), Iron35 (1), Rathryan (3), Leth (1), Eshm (1), Zeke48 (1), Gorkamorka12345 (1),
Melevolence (2), Ascalam (1), Swanny318, (1) ScootyPuffJunior, (1) LValx (1), Jim Solo (1), xSoulgrinderx (1), Reese (1), Pretre (1) 
   
Made in us
Focused Fire Warrior




San Antonio, TX

I find with 18 Legion, 3 Flavors of Mechanicum, Solar Auxilia, Imerial Militia, Cult Militia, and Questoris Knight Households...there's plenty of diversity.

I like 30k because it's more streamlined and less crazy then 40k. Yes it's an expansion to it so uses 7th edition...but no unbound allowed, no LoW below 2k points and even then it has to be less than 25%...Just makes more sense. And way less ally shenanigans going on.

Oh and I love that the 'chaos' factions are just evil, not dumb/pointy/spikey just for the sake of being chaos-i-fied.

   
Made in gb
Sneaky Lictor





Not enough models imo, but that's not gonna change. Space Marines always gonna be Space Marines.

And if it does expand, the balance will be less.

*shrugs, what can you do
   
Made in gb
Enginseer with a Wrench






I wasn't originally into it because of the price, but now with BaC...
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran




Lincoln, UK

I kind of like the 40k setting because it's so wild and diverse. Battles on space-going cities, skirmishes in mega-hives or worlds given over wholly to industry, rediscovered sectors that reappear from the Warp after being missing for millennia.. with the inhabitants changed. There's room to build your own theme, your own diverse conflicts, design your own worlds and chapters and Craftworlds and so on.

On the other hand, the universe of 30k has a specific theme - civil war, the fall of Mankind, brother against brother. You don't have to follow the theme, but you miss a lot of what's best about the setting as published if you do.

GW did it smarter (for 40k at least) than, say Games Designers' Workshop, and kept the two separate. The Fifth Frontier War against the Zhodani was a decent backdrop for Classic Traveller; but by the Time of MegaTraveller and The New Era they had decided to wreck the setting they had built up over a decade.

In the end though, it's not an important life decision you have to think through to justify - don't like it, move on, chill.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/11/19 12:13:56


 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






In 40k, it's all about mankind being assailed from all sides, fighting for survival. Hence, lots of alien factions. During the Heresy, the narrative is the fall of humanity from grace, and so the focus is and should always be on the human factions (and Chaos). Yes, the aliens were present, but they aren't important to the theme. That's why we've not seen any 30k Ork or Eldar models and why I think it's unlikely we ever will.

I like the basic story of the Heresy and the tragic themes. I don't particularly like what Black Library did with the details, and I'm glad Forge World have reined themselves back a bit (although we're stuck with the depiction of the Primarchs; they make good display models, but other than that I'm not a fan). Mind you, perhaps I'm just being old and cranky; my idea of the Heresy was forged by the artwork in 1st edition Space Marine - full of beaky Marines blowing each other up, ambushing each other in tenement blocks and stringing the corpses of their enemies up on ruined buildings, all while angsting over having to kill their old friends.
   
Made in us
Wicked Canoptek Wraith





I can't wait to play Questoris Knights, but I'm waiting until I can get their arms/helmets as bits from somewhere. Maybe get some Titans too. Probably a Reaver.

- 10000+ pts
Imperial Knights- 5 Standard Knights / 3 Cerastus Knights
Officio Assassinorum - 4 Assassins
CSM - 500pts? Maybe? Its from the Officio Assassinorum box so I'm pretty sure its not enough to run in a CAD
Vampire Lords- I have no idea I bought it like two days before I left country and they're still in storage so I'll have to see when I get back.] 
   
Made in us
Shas'ui with Bonding Knife






Still waitin for the Megarachnids!

SG

40K - T'au Empire
Kill Team - T'au Empire, Death Guard
Warhammer Underworlds - Garrekā€™s Reavers

*** I only play for fun. I do not play competitively. *** 
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets






 ServiceGames wrote:
Still waitin for the Megarachnids!

SG


You and me both

~1.5k
Successful Trades: Ashrog (1), Iron35 (1), Rathryan (3), Leth (1), Eshm (1), Zeke48 (1), Gorkamorka12345 (1),
Melevolence (2), Ascalam (1), Swanny318, (1) ScootyPuffJunior, (1) LValx (1), Jim Solo (1), xSoulgrinderx (1), Reese (1), Pretre (1) 
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka




The minis are not that great. You are not alone, HH:BoC is nothing but meh.

Agies Grimm:The "Learn to play, bro" mentality is mostly just a way for someone to try to shame you by implying that their metaphorical nerd-wiener is bigger than yours. Which, ironically, I think nerds do even more vehemently than jocks.

Everything is made up and the points don't matter. 40K or Who's Line is it Anyway?

Auticus wrote: Or in summation: its ok to exploit shoddy points because those are rules and gamers exist to find rules loopholes (they are still "legal"), but if the same force can be composed without structure, it emotionally feels "wrong".  
   
Made in us
Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord




Inside Yvraine

 the_Armyman wrote:
 BlaxicanX wrote:
That's the fault of your local meta. I can say the same for 40K.


You're saying it's the fault of the meta in a setting that goes into explicit detail about 20 separate Legions of Space Marines, but also happens to have the Solar Auxilia and Mechanicum? So it's the player's fault that the designers have explicitly said that this was a game about brother against brother, and that xenos would have only a minor role to play in the fluff and rules?

#notsureifserious
No, I was talking to Master of Ordinance, not you. There are several prominent non-marine factions in 30K. If nobody in his area wants to play those non-marine factions then that's a reflection on his local group of players, not the game.

The logic is equivalent to criticizing 40K for being too Space Wolves-centric because your 6 friends all play Space Wolves.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2015/11/20 01:26:04


 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba




The Great State of New Jersey

FW has said they have no intention of desire of ever doing xenos in 30k because it would defeat the theme of the game, etc. They also said if you do want to play xenos you can can use your 40k army, though they neither recommend nor endose you doing so as they arent balanced against one another.

CoALabaer wrote:
Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
 
   
 
Forum Index » The Horus Heresy
Go to: