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Made in us
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How do you guys think GW should have handled the AdMech Codices?

imo, they should have made a central AdMech Codex with Skitarii, standard AdMech Units from the current AdMech Codex, as well as a mix of solid vehicles from different factions (rhinos, Land Raiders, Chimeras, etc.) and with a bunch of new versions of each chassis (like the Iron Fist Rhino variant seen in Priests of Mars) that are AdMech exclusive. Then have Knight supplement, Titan Supplement, and a complementary supplement for Mars.

To quote a fictional character... "Let's make this fun!"
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A single bigger codex. Splitting them up was completely unnecessary.

I should think of a new signature... In the meantime, have a  
   
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What's left of Cadia

Just one codex. Making them into 2 codices was a stupid move

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 Ashiraya wrote:
A single bigger codex. Splitting them up was completely unnecessary.

Ding ding ding, we have a winner.

There was never this weird split in the fluff before GW decided to try and sell you two codexes instead of 1.

 Fafnir wrote:
Oh, I certainly vote with my dollar, but the problem is that that is not enough. The problem with the 'vote with your dollar' response is that it doesn't take into account why we're not buying the product. I want to enjoy 40k enough to buy back in. It was my introduction to traditional games, and there was a time when I enjoyed it very much. I want to buy 40k, but Gamesworkshop is doing their very best to push me away, and simply not buying their product won't tell them that.
 
   
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Gathering the Informations.

 jonolikespie wrote:
 Ashiraya wrote:
A single bigger codex. Splitting them up was completely unnecessary.

Ding ding ding, we have a winner.

There was never this weird split in the fluff before GW decided to try and sell you two codexes instead of 1.

Yeah, and in the fluff Skitarii were just guys with guns grafted to them.

Fluff changes. They decided to make the Skitarii closer to human than the "Guys with guns strapped to them". They also made them closer to an actual military force(and IMO, made them a bit better at being Guardsmen than Guardsmen actually are) rather than just "cultists".
   
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Single codex, named characters, more vehicles (like a transport and a flyer). Also, more HQ options with more customizability like how Marines have the "build your own captain" and Guard has "build your own commissar/commander." Not a whole lot of options at the moment, not nearly on the level of forgeworld's Magos Prime options anyway.

Hopefully this happens in the next edition.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/25 03:58:57


 
   
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On moon miranda.

They should have been a single codex, with Skitarii as troops, and the heavier tracked dudes as Elites or the like, and been given a dedicated transport and a reduced emphasis on infantry running speed.

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At my local FLGS we have a house rule where Skitarii,Cult Mech and 30k Ad Mech are classified as a single codex
   
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The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer

 Kanluwen wrote:
 jonolikespie wrote:
 Ashiraya wrote:
A single bigger codex. Splitting them up was completely unnecessary.

Ding ding ding, we have a winner.

There was never this weird split in the fluff before GW decided to try and sell you two codexes instead of 1.

Yeah, and in the fluff Skitarii were just guys with guns grafted to them.

Fluff changes. They decided to make the Skitarii closer to human than the "Guys with guns strapped to them". They also made them closer to an actual military force(and IMO, made them a bit better at being Guardsmen than Guardsmen actually are) rather than just "cultists".


And there is still no reason to put them in a separate codex. 4 unit codices are fething embarrassing.

I should think of a new signature... In the meantime, have a  
   
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Warwickscire

It should have been done like this:



That book from Forgeworld just shows up the 3 AdMech Codex (Knights, Skitarii, Cult) put out by the GW mainline studio. In fact, it's an embarrassment. Flicking through the 3 Codex and you wouldn't think they're actually from the same company as the Forgeworld book.

For example:
- Units from three Codex books: 18. Total price for all 3: £65
- Units from FW Mechanicum book: Over 30 including Knights, Titans and Ordinatus Macro Engines. Total price: £32


   
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Longtime Dakkanaut






A single codex are you mad.

Gw should
1) Maximize profit
2) Keep us motivated to buy their stuff. Preferably by closely regulated hypes that generate a constant stream of income.

Sure Skitarii and knights could be in the codex but what would be the fun of that.
Now we have 3 armies that give their players more options and a keen release schedule that resulted in higher sales.
This release was near perfect.

The thing that I would have changed was to bring add an additional follow up release (months later) containing:
- flier fighter / transport double box
- skimmer fighter transport double box.
- Imperial tech priests.
- Imperial tech marine
- A new camaign style book with those units in them, a lot of formations that included not so good selling fortifications, the uber formation found in the white dwarf. And a additional detachment with formations ( decurion style)

I guess we will get to see at least a similar book in the near future.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Ashiraya wrote:

And there is still no reason to put them in a separate codex. 4 unit codices are fething embarrassing.


4 unit codexes containing the more obscure units released during the hype and before the real thing are the best idea ever.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/11/25 12:09:01


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 zedmeister wrote:
It should have been done like this:



That book from Forgeworld just shows up the 3 AdMech Codex (Knights, Skitarii, Cult) put out by the GW mainline studio. In fact, it's an embarrassment. Flicking through the 3 Codex and you wouldn't think they're actually from the same company as the Forgeworld book.

For example:
- Units from three Codex books: 18. Total price for all 3: £65
- Units from FW Mechanicum book: Over 30 including Knights, Titans and Ordinatus Macro Engines. Total price: £32




Knights isn't a Admech supplement codex though. It can be seen as either a standalone force, or as a dataslate for any imperium force.
It does talk about the Knights who are loyal to the Mechanicus, but that's only a third of the fluff offered.
There's only one Mechanicus formation in the game that even includes a Knight, and that's War Convocation.
Just cause everyone uses the broken formation, doesn't make the Knight codex a requirement to play Admech.
   
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 oldzoggy wrote:
A single codex are you mad.

Gw should
1) Maximize profit
2) Keep us motivated to buy their stuff. Preferably by closely regulated hypes that generate a constant stream of income.

Sure Skitarii and knights could be in the codex but what would be the fun of that.
Now we have 3 armies that give their players more options and a keen release schedule that resulted in higher sales.
This release was near perfect.

The thing that I would have changed was to bring add an additional follow up release (months later) containing:
- flier fighter / transport double box
- skimmer fighter transport double box.
- Imperial tech priests.
- Imperial tech marine
- A new camaign style book with those units in them, a lot of formations that included not so good selling fortifications, the uber formation found in the white dwarf. And a additional detachment with formations ( decurion style)

I guess we will get to see at least a similar book in the near future.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Ashiraya wrote:

And there is still no reason to put them in a separate codex. 4 unit codices are fething embarrassing.


4 unit codexes containing the more obscure units released during the hype and before the real thing are the best idea ever.


The sarcasm is strong with this one...
   
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Warwickscire

 Mantorok wrote:


Knights isn't a Admech supplement codex though. It can be seen as either a standalone force, or as a dataslate for any imperium force.
It does talk about the Knights who are loyal to the Mechanicus, but that's only a third of the fluff offered.
There's only one Mechanicus formation in the game that even includes a Knight, and that's War Convocation.
Just cause everyone uses the broken formation, doesn't make the Knight codex a requirement to play Admech.


Fair do's. Though I'd argue that Mechanicus Indentured Knights should be part of the AdMech from a background perspective and options for them should be included in a theoretical single Mechanicus list.

Anyway, even after binning the Knights codex, the remaining 2 efforts are still poor:

- Units from two Codex books: 13. Total price for both: £45
- Units from FW Mechanicum book: Over 30 including Knights, Titans and Ordinatus Macro Engines. Total price: £32
   
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 chalkobob wrote:

The sarcasm is strong with this one...


No not at all. Gw is not a non profit organisation that exists to please you. It is there to make money.
If there where a non profit organisation they should have handled the release entirely in a different way.

- A FAQ each week, together with some free online hobby articles including a weekly how to scratch built terrain.
- Lower the prices of the models to a fixed per sprue base price
- Offer an option to buy separate sprues
- Make a sprue with extra weapons and other common upgrades, perhaps even an additional Character upgrade sprew filled with bits to convert regular troopers to characters.
-Offer some nice discount on the formation one click bundles, since it saves them packaging cost.
Week 1: Release the codex containing all the rules for the 3 armies and the formations
Week 2: Release the core and HQ.,
Week 3-8: Release the rest of the army.


But they are not are they. So why the hell would they ever come up with the ridiculous idea to combine the codexes and not capitalize on the hype they created.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/11/25 13:13:09


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 zedmeister wrote:
 Mantorok wrote:


Knights isn't a Admech supplement codex though. It can be seen as either a standalone force, or as a dataslate for any imperium force.
It does talk about the Knights who are loyal to the Mechanicus, but that's only a third of the fluff offered.
There's only one Mechanicus formation in the game that even includes a Knight, and that's War Convocation.
Just cause everyone uses the broken formation, doesn't make the Knight codex a requirement to play Admech.


Fair do's. Though I'd argue that Mechanicus Indentured Knights should be part of the AdMech from a background perspective and options for them should be included in a theoretical single Mechanicus list.

Anyway, even after binning the Knights codex, the remaining 2 efforts are still poor:

- Units from two Codex books: 13. Total price for both: £45
- Units from FW Mechanicum book: Over 30 including Knights, Titans and Ordinatus Macro Engines. Total price: £32


What do you think would have been opportune way for GW to handle the Admech Codex?

I don't disagree with you that they should have been one book, but I'm struggling to see how they would have crammed that amount of fluff and rules into a single release, without jacking up the price to 70-80 pounds.
Much less including a small section for knights, titans (which don't exist outside of Apoc), and the entirely new to 40K faction of Ordinatus Macro Engines.

To keep the Admech in the same price range as the Mechanicum book, they would have had to cut all the extra stuff, and it wouldn't keep the same thematic feel as the rest of the 40K codices.
At that point, they might as well have re-released/accepted Mechanicum into 40k as a new Imperium faction.
Would have been cheaper overall.
   
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Warwickscire

 Mantorok wrote:

What do you think would have been opportune way for GW to handle the Admech Codex?

I don't disagree with you that they should have been one book, but I'm struggling to see how they would have crammed that amount of fluff and rules into a single release, without jacking up the price to 70-80 pounds.
Much less including a small section for knights, titans (which don't exist outside of Apoc), and the entirely new to 40K faction of Ordinatus Macro Engines.

To keep the Admech in the same price range as the Mechanicum book, they would have had to cut all the extra stuff, and it wouldn't keep the same thematic feel as the rest of the 40K codices.
At that point, they might as well have re-released/accepted Mechanicum into 40k as a new Imperium faction.
Would have been cheaper overall.


A single book with all units would be ideal. A book with a total of 13 units (18 if you add in the Mechanicus Indentured Knights) doesn't seem beyond the realms of ridiculousness. How many does the Craftworld: Eldar Codex have? 20 to 30?

And that takes us back to my original point - the fact that Forgeworld (who are part of the same company) were able to produce a single book of a (in my view) higher quality with more backstory, more units, and 3 army lists variants for a cheaper price than the two poor Codex efforts. (As an aside, the Apoc only comment on Titans, Ordinatus and Knights I'd disagree with as they are all now classed as Lord of War choices meaning they are valid choices in a typical 40k game. It's a shame GW continues to exclude an armies full choices, Lords of War and all. Whether your opponent will want to face one or not, however, is up themselves to decide...)

GW seem to be unwilling to increase the value of their releases despite their continuing sales slide...
   
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 zedmeister wrote:


A single book with all units would be ideal. A book with a total of 13 units (18 if you add in the Mechanicus Indentured Knights) doesn't seem beyond the realms of ridiculousness. How many does the Craftworld: Eldar Codex have? 20 to 30?

And that takes us back to my original point - the fact that Forgeworld (who are part of the same company) were able to produce a single book of a (in my view) higher quality with more backstory, more units, and 3 army lists variants for a cheaper price than the two poor Codex efforts. (As an aside, the Apoc only comment on Titans, Ordinatus and Knights I'd disagree with as they are all now classed as Lord of War choices meaning they are valid choices in a typical 40k game. It's a shame GW continues to exclude an armies full choices, Lords of War and all. Whether your opponent will want to face one or not, however, is up themselves to decide...)

GW seem to be unwilling to increase the value of their releases despite their continuing sales slide...


Huh, I guess that would make a lot of sense.

I didn't know Titans and Ordinatus were LoW in standard 40k. I'll have to stop limiting myself and bring a reaver to my next game.
   
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Warwickscire

 Mantorok wrote:


I didn't know Titans and Ordinatus were LoW in standard 40k. I'll have to stop limiting myself and bring a reaver to my next game.


If you have 1,500 points spare and your opponent lets you of course Makes for a fun challenge downing a Titan before it scrags your entire army!
   
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I like the separate Skitarii and Cult Mechanicus books...

*hides*


If I could have changed anything, I would have extended the range of Minis available. IG Techpriests, Techmarines + Servitors, that kind of thing. They also have a lack of big stompy tanks, which I thought would be a no-brainer for Ad Mech (Yes, the donkey is awesome, and the Kastellans are badass, but a non-corrupted Defiler is what I was hoping for).

What I don't want, and never want, is Transports. I love the feel of both armies. Relentless, ever marching tin-men is how it should be. Give them transports and everybody is hopping into MEHTUL BAWKES and they become no different to Mech Guard or Space Marines.

Just my 2 cents.

Praise the Omnissiah!
   
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Pittsburgh, PA, USA

It's almost impossible to deny FW got the Mechanicum right. It's a great example of thoughtful rules design and beautifully sculpted minis. However, the dual AdMech codexes from the GW Studio were obviously a decison based primarily upon finances. That they should have been combined goes without saying. Overall, I think the rules in both books are decent, if overly complex at times.The two major disappointments being the rules writing for Electro-Priests and the dopey, 50s sci-fi styling of the Kastelan plastics.

 oldzoggy wrote:
 chalkobob wrote:

The sarcasm is strong with this one...


No not at all. Gw is not a non profit organisation that exists to please you. It is there to make money.
If there where a non profit organisation they should have handled the release entirely in a different way.

- A FAQ each week, together with some free online hobby articles including a weekly how to scratch built terrain.
- Lower the prices of the models to a fixed per sprue base price
- Offer an option to buy separate sprues
- Make a sprue with extra weapons and other common upgrades, perhaps even an additional Character upgrade sprew filled with bits to convert regular troopers to characters.
-Offer some nice discount on the formation one click bundles, since it saves them packaging cost.
Week 1: Release the codex containing all the rules for the 3 armies and the formations
Week 2: Release the core and HQ.,
Week 3-8: Release the rest of the army.


But they are not are they. So why the hell would they ever come up with the ridiculous idea to combine the codexes and not capitalize on the hype they created.


What's the flavor of that Kool-Aid you've got there, oldzoggy? It looks like it tastes pretty good.

   
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Izural wrote:I like the separate Skitarii and Cult Mechanicus books...

*hides*


If I could have changed anything, I would have extended the range of Minis available. IG Techpriests, Techmarines + Servitors, that kind of thing. They also have a lack of big stompy tanks, which I thought would be a no-brainer for Ad Mech (Yes, the donkey is awesome, and the Kastellans are badass, but a non-corrupted Defiler is what I was hoping for).

What I don't want, and never want, is Transports. I love the feel of both armies. Relentless, ever marching tin-men is how it should be. Give them transports and everybody is hopping into MEHTUL BAWKES and they become no different to Mech Guard or Space Marines.

Just my 2 cents.

Praise the Omnissiah!

Ah, yes, ignore the mountains of fluff that says that Mechanicus uses the best transports available, that makes total sense.

To quote a fictional character... "Let's make this fun!"
 Tactical_Spam wrote:
There was a story in the SM omnibus where a single kroot killed 2-3 marines then ate their gene seed and became a Kroot-startes.

We must all join the Kroot-startes... 
   
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commander dante wrote:
At my local FLGS we have a house rule where Skitarii,Cult Mech and 30k Ad Mech are classified as a single codex

Well no need to do that for the Skitarii and Cult part. They actually already are a single codex, the Codex Adepticus Mechanicus. They just divided them between two BOOKS.

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Gathering the Informations.

 dusara217 wrote:
Izural wrote:I like the separate Skitarii and Cult Mechanicus books...

*hides*


If I could have changed anything, I would have extended the range of Minis available. IG Techpriests, Techmarines + Servitors, that kind of thing. They also have a lack of big stompy tanks, which I thought would be a no-brainer for Ad Mech (Yes, the donkey is awesome, and the Kastellans are badass, but a non-corrupted Defiler is what I was hoping for).

What I don't want, and never want, is Transports. I love the feel of both armies. Relentless, ever marching tin-men is how it should be. Give them transports and everybody is hopping into MEHTUL BAWKES and they become no different to Mech Guard or Space Marines.

Just my 2 cents.

Praise the Omnissiah!

Ah, yes, ignore the mountains of fluff that says that Mechanicus uses the best transports available, that makes total sense.

The Mechanicus might use the best transports possible for the Techpriests and their immediate underlings, but honestly? I liked the Skitarii being what amount to "nomadic". The idea of their first cybernetics being voluntarily surrendering their legs so that they can emulate the first Skitarii Legions, who marched across the entirety of Mars until their legs were essentially stumps?

That appeals to me more than "luls moar transports".
   
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What flavour, you could put it that way

I have worked for a major toy company for a few months.The most interesting thing about it was the strict planning and promotion of releases and the estimated and realized sales graphs. I find it really hard not to think of those graphs when someone asks what a company should have done.

I'm not claiming that GW is a perfect company nor that I like their premium pricing strategy or their lack of community support. It is just that I don't think that they would be better off financially if they combined the books and releases.

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Pittsburgh, PA, USA

 oldzoggy wrote:
What flavour, you could put it that way

I have worked for a major toy company for a few months.The most interesting thing about it was the strict planning and promotion of releases and the estimated and realized sales graphs. I find it really hard not to think of those graphs when someone asks what a company should have done.

I'm not claiming that GW is a perfect company nor that I like their premium pricing strategy or their lack of community support. It is just that I don't think that they would be better off financially if they combined the books and releases.


There's a middle ground between being a charity and being so desperate for cash that you turn your customer into your adversary. GW's obssessive need to make every product attain maximum profitability is an indication of how poorly they're managed.

   
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Izural wrote:I like the separate Skitarii and Cult Mechanicus books...

*hides*


If I could have changed anything, I would have extended the range of Minis available. IG Techpriests, Techmarines + Servitors, that kind of thing. They also have a lack of big stompy tanks, which I thought would be a no-brainer for Ad Mech (Yes, the donkey is awesome, and the Kastellans are badass, but a non-corrupted Defiler is what I was hoping for).

What I don't want, and never want, is Transports. I love the feel of both armies. Relentless, ever marching tin-men is how it should be. Give them transports and everybody is hopping into MEHTUL BAWKES and they become no different to Mech Guard or Space Marines.

Just my 2 cents.

Praise the Omnissiah!

I can appreciate why you like them but AdMech should have tanks and transports. They perform better when you ally them in... AdMech should be the ultimate ally but ultimately need allies to get the most out of the army.

What bothers me most about the two books is that even if GW absolutely had to do two books they could have done it better. For example, Skitarii they are the main military force but they often times act independent from what'd be considered the core Mechanicus forces, operating attached to Titan legions or as part of explorator missions or alongside deathwatch... They're akin to Tempestus Scion and could have been handled that way, with a second codex being one where they'd have just been a small part in addition to all the other units.
   
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 the_Armyman wrote:
 oldzoggy wrote:
What flavour, you could put it that way

I have worked for a major toy company for a few months.The most interesting thing about it was the strict planning and promotion of releases and the estimated and realized sales graphs. I find it really hard not to think of those graphs when someone asks what a company should have done.

I'm not claiming that GW is a perfect company nor that I like their premium pricing strategy or their lack of community support. It is just that I don't think that they would be better off financially if they combined the books and releases.


There's a middle ground between being a charity and being so desperate for cash that you turn your customer into your adversary. GW's obssessive need to make every product attain maximum profitability is an indication of how poorly they're managed.


Agreed. In fact, trying to milk your customer for every potential sale can make them become 'not customers', which means their days of giving money to the company are over. Driving away customers isn't good for a business wanting to maximise profits.

 
   
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 Torga_DW wrote:
 the_Armyman wrote:
 oldzoggy wrote:
What flavour, you could put it that way

I have worked for a major toy company for a few months.The most interesting thing about it was the strict planning and promotion of releases and the estimated and realized sales graphs. I find it really hard not to think of those graphs when someone asks what a company should have done.

I'm not claiming that GW is a perfect company nor that I like their premium pricing strategy or their lack of community support. It is just that I don't think that they would be better off financially if they combined the books and releases.


There's a middle ground between being a charity and being so desperate for cash that you turn your customer into your adversary. GW's obssessive need to make every product attain maximum profitability is an indication of how poorly they're managed.


Agreed. In fact, trying to milk your customer for every potential sale can make them become 'not customers', which means their days of giving money to the company are over. Driving away customers isn't good for a business wanting to maximise profits.


This is a valid point, but in contrary to popular believe does gw have years of relevant data about this in the form of sales numbers that we as customers don't have. And i'm 100% certain that they like all mayor companies are using their data about their (unpopular) actions on sales to the fullest. So while I have become "not a customer" when new kits are oddly high priced others might still be buying them making the expensive plastic HQ's and Centurions worth it. Sure they could make mistakes, but no way that we could predict this effect better then GW themselves.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/26 09:56:04


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As with every other force; there should be a single codex with all the rules, units and fluff you need to play that faction.

Same way that Chaos should be one codex, Space Marines should be one codex, Imperial Guard should have entries for playing as Traitor Guard, Eldar should include Dark Eldar, etc...

   
 
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